Rafale is a quite good air-strike plane,and since the HAF already used Mirage integrating a French plane in the airforce won't be so difficult.If what was written is true then it will be probably one of our two types of aircrafts.Cause I believe that we are not going to stay there.Probably we will have to select a second type between F-35 and EF in future.And since we already bought Russian,European hardware the most lost logical movement will be the F-35s.I also believe that the Greek Navy will also have the possibility to discuss about those new frigates we wanted,and especially the French/Italian Fremm design.
Arms race: Greece & Turkey
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I'm skeptical about the 50% stake, because that would clash with the terms offered to India for licence production.
yeah but cant the F35b land and take off verticaly
It will not be wise to use that plane with full war load in VTO mode
which aircraft has more advantage in a dogfight, Rafale or F35? I am assuming F35 has better stealth therefore a little bit more advantage there, but when it comes to one-to-one dogfight, what would happen?
and if the rumors of S-400 for Greece is true, then Turkey really needs a good SEAD capability aircraft ( maybe updated pods for F16s and F35s) and an equal air defence system.
and if the rumors of S-400 for Greece is true, then Turkey really needs a good SEAD capability aircraft ( maybe updated pods for F16s and F35s) and an equal air defence system.
Atilla [TR]
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That or Israel will give us a new system which they did with when Greece bought the S-300 system. I also believe Turkey needs a much much better A2A combat aircraft I cannot believe they made such a stupid decision to only buy F-35's, Eurofighter over the Aegean would have been excellent interceptor or better yet have the whole enter inventory be the Swedish Girpen Turkey could use it to land on ordinary city streets in N.Iraq or anywhere in Turkey where there is Roads maybe wait till the advanced Norwegian one comes out.
Well for a SEAD strike to be succesful many factors need to be taken into consideration.As far as the F-16 my opinion is that they have very low possibilies against S-400,I'm saying that based on what I've seen in aircraft simulators(Falcon 4.0) against SA-10,I know it's only a simulator but it gives a very good view of what reality looks like.So if they can't do it with SA-10 imagine with S-400.It's only my opinion,I'm not a defence analyst.Well about the decision you are talking about,it's the best you could do since you are partners in that project.Why investing billion of dollars if you are going to get sth different?If you are reffering to a new Gripen design you must first wait to see it's capibilities,secondly estimate the cost,thirdly see how you can integrate it into your airforce.
Atilla [TR]
New Member
Exactly the Girpen is cheaper then the F-35 can land on ordinary roads more maneuverability, only disadvantage I see is the swedes might not give Turkey the Girpen is that Turkey has the policy to build it's own airplanes and the Swedes might want to build it themselves and sell it that is about it. Another thing I could see Turkey do is if they join up with the nations that wanted a F-22 and got slammed in the face and build there own airplane about the same specs as the F-22, with the knowledge and the joint budget. For some odd reason I believe the Russians would not sell Turkey the Pak FA and neither would the us Turks want it.
Well since Gripen won't be selling a lot you might have a good offer,as it seems we(Greece) are going to have for Rafale.For the F-22 noone knows what will happen,and who will have the chance to get it.I doubt it will be given easily and so easy.Same for Pak Fa.Also don't forget from Pak Fa we don't have anything in our hands, if you know what I mean.
Atilla [TR]
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What do you think about Greece buying the Rafale? DO you wish they decided on something else?
If the offer is true then I think that it's a great opportunity,if not then I would say let's go for some EFs now and then for some F-35s.I believe that 2 types of A/C although augments the logistical support,also becomes a great advantage over enemies with one particular type of aircraft.
Atilla [TR]
New Member
I thought Greece was buying EF now and Rafales later. I dunno how long it would take Greece to get some F-35's because they where not part of the project at first so it would take some years after eveyone else before they get them. I think Turkey needs out of 250 aircraft at least 60% being Gripens or another A2A aircraft and the rest as F-35's for bombing raids. I have a feeling that Greece will not go for the F-35 but instead get a 5 gen stealth European option, or maybe Russian I see the Russian aircraft much more liable choice since that is in the near future and the stealth european option might even be 6 gen.
Well if we take a Russian one that would be a huge surprise to all.As I told you noone knows what will be selected,but it's almost sure that it would be among 3 aircrafts EFs,Rafales and F-35s.In my opinion EFs,Rafales are 4th gen so it's almost impossible of selecting a 6th gen European plane in next 15 years.
F22 is a very expensive aircraft and I dont think it will be economically viable for Turkey, Eurofighter is good as well but again after buying F35s Turkey will not have enough finance for expensive aircraft. However on the other hand they need a good air interceptor so Gripen still seems the best option for now.
of course can Gripen match Rafale, Eurofighter or other Russian aircraft
of course can Gripen match Rafale, Eurofighter or other Russian aircraft
Atilla [TR]
New Member
I dunno how much but Turkey has 13 to 20 billion for Military but I still do not think F-22 is not, a good choice because Turkey needs to buy 250 of these aircrafts and is how much the U.S has and so in the end yeah they do not have enough money, as you said Turkey needs an air interceptor more then a bomber and the Girpen is the best for Turkey I am going to Try to make Turkey buy some (my great uncle is in Turkish politics) but they still will not listen to me. Urgghhhh! The Girpen is so perfect for Turkey and they did not even try testing it!
Maybe Turkey should also get some Rafales, it will make France happy ( might be helpful for changing opinions about Turkey getting on EU) and also if they do the joint production with Greece it will be a cheaper aircraft for both sides, and both sides wouldn't have to worry who has the better airplane, at the end it will all depend on the both Greek and Turkish pilots fighting skills
Lots of confusion here
Well Greece will be operating F-16s , Mirages and the new type of aircraft to replace the F-4s by 2020s. That makes 3 different aircraft. If F-35 is added at some date it will probably replace Mirages & F-16s.
As for developing Turkey's SEAD capabilities , the current CCIP program has options to acquire new HARM missiles and HTS-E pods for the TuAF F-16s.
What makes you guys think F-35s A2A capabilities will be less than of Grippens or Eurofighters? I don't see even a F-16 Block 50+ loosing against Grippen in air to air fight. Most of the air fight relies on BVR engagements and F-35 is surely the one with advantage on this scale.
Turkey has requirement for 120 F-35 and will probably sign for it very soon. That will get a big chunk out of our defense budget so a second type is very unlikely until 2020s.
Rafale is not an option for TuAF as F-22 is not... First is for obvious reasons second is because that there is no export option for F-22 , neither for Turkey nor any other US ally except in our wet dreams.
Well Greece will be operating F-16s , Mirages and the new type of aircraft to replace the F-4s by 2020s. That makes 3 different aircraft. If F-35 is added at some date it will probably replace Mirages & F-16s.
As for developing Turkey's SEAD capabilities , the current CCIP program has options to acquire new HARM missiles and HTS-E pods for the TuAF F-16s.
What makes you guys think F-35s A2A capabilities will be less than of Grippens or Eurofighters? I don't see even a F-16 Block 50+ loosing against Grippen in air to air fight. Most of the air fight relies on BVR engagements and F-35 is surely the one with advantage on this scale.
Turkey has requirement for 120 F-35 and will probably sign for it very soon. That will get a big chunk out of our defense budget so a second type is very unlikely until 2020s.
Rafale is not an option for TuAF as F-22 is not... First is for obvious reasons second is because that there is no export option for F-22 , neither for Turkey nor any other US ally except in our wet dreams.
IMHO, I dont think F35 is a great A2A fighter, it might be a good one but not a great one, and I think it will have some difficulty facing Rafales, Eurofighters.
Also if I remember correctly, stealth characteristics of export F35 are less than the USAF versions and at the end export F35s are just a little bit stealthier than the current F16s.
Also if I remember correctly, stealth characteristics of export F35 are less than the USAF versions and at the end export F35s are just a little bit stealthier than the current F16s.
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