wimpymouse
Banned Member
Yeah, that does sound like waaaaay more important than buying new weapons. Thanks for the update.
Arms race: Greece & Turkey
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interdictor
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Hi I am new to these forums and I've been reading this thread which is very interesting, thanks for the info from both sides.
So I read on the previous pages that Greece will get new EF and get f-35 later. Is this still true or plans have changed due to the global financial collapse.
Same for turkey are they going ahead with their new fighter?
I think both countries should slow down with the armaments and pay down their debt
Also anyone know if S-300 are operational in Greece or in storage?
thanks
So I read on the previous pages that Greece will get new EF and get f-35 later. Is this still true or plans have changed due to the global financial collapse.
Same for turkey are they going ahead with their new fighter?
I think both countries should slow down with the armaments and pay down their debt
Also anyone know if S-300 are operational in Greece or in storage?
thanks
Greece have been already in a slow down or silence of new procurements since the end of 2002. EMPAE 2001-2005 was slashed more than 30-40% due to the Olympic Games and the EMPAE 2006-2010 still is a dead programme with the exeption of the last order for 30 f-16 block 52+ back in 2006 i guess.I think both countries should slow down with the armaments and pay down their debt
thanks
Till now there are problems for comissioning the 214 Subs (mostly due to high deficit,), the latter months we just have received the Erieye AEW. So due to financial and deficit troubles new orders have stopped with the exeption of the 30 f-16 and these armaments we are still trying to receive and comission are significant parts of the 96-2000 and 2001-2005 Empae projects.
I believe that the next orders will take place shortly in 2009-2010 involving mostly projects for the reinforcement of the Greek Navy. Haf may wait.
Anyway, it is said by the P.M that armament expenditures will be reduced at a 15% or so cost.
According to Greek media, yesterday there were some decisions made about certain programs.
The most interesting of them is that Greek navy will take the FREMM (4+2 ships), including the Scalp naval missiles.
Soon there will be the final agreement for the BMP-3HEL's
The first program to be signed will be the 15 new SAR Super puma helicopters
During 2009 there will be the final decision for the new fighter. The candidates are F-16, F-18E/F and Eurofighter
The most interesting of them is that Greek navy will take the FREMM (4+2 ships), including the Scalp naval missiles.
Soon there will be the final agreement for the BMP-3HEL's
The first program to be signed will be the 15 new SAR Super puma helicopters
During 2009 there will be the final decision for the new fighter. The candidates are F-16, F-18E/F and Eurofighter
After the Imia dispute, a rocky islet, Turkey nowdays is advancing her strategy of disputing inhabited islands such as Fournoi and Agathonisi. For the time being they say that the airspace above those two islands belongs to Turkey..they call the citizens who live on those islands not natives but colonists and alleges Greece for colonization.
Since last December and the riots that took place in Greece Turkey found the opportunity to conduct overflights commiting exercises such as virtual bombardment of the said islands where pairs of F-4s flying just a few meters above the ground and pairs of F-16s escorting them from a higher altitude.
Situation is worsening and after every visit to the local inhabitants of the said islands either from the President of Greek Democracy either from greek politicians like the chief of PASOK last Saturday the answer from Turkey were new overflights. It is stated also that last weeks mock dogfights over Aegean are increasing and it is described from greek pilots to their superiors that turkish pilots behaviour is becoming more and more aggressive non-professional and reminding tactics which took place after the crash and murder of cp Iliakis off coast from Karpathos a few yrs ago.
Well maybe after all this situation -turkish provocations- might have emerged as a kind of a political game between the Turkish Generals and the new leadership of turkish foreign ministry and because of the fact that Turkey knows for sure that Greece is not going to shoot down their aircrafts responding only by the typical interceptions they want to play with the nerves or test their new foreign minister in order to depict the fact that they have the upper hand. On the other hand all these events are very dangerous and god or Mohamed should put his hand so nobody gets hurt.
We Greece and Turkey already have enough of our domestic problems mostly economic and we shouldnt put more things on the basket and hope that provocations from the turkish generals such as the latter incidents will take an end soon without any further consequences challenging the stability of our region
..they call the citizens who live on those islands not natives but colonists and alleges Greece for colonization.Since last December and the riots that took place in Greece Turkey found the opportunity to conduct overflights commiting exercises such as virtual bombardment of the said islands where pairs of F-4s flying just a few meters above the ground and pairs of F-16s escorting them from a higher altitude.
Situation is worsening and after every visit to the local inhabitants of the said islands either from the President of Greek Democracy either from greek politicians like the chief of PASOK last Saturday the answer from Turkey were new overflights. It is stated also that last weeks mock dogfights over Aegean are increasing and it is described from greek pilots to their superiors that turkish pilots behaviour is becoming more and more aggressive non-professional and reminding tactics which took place after the crash and murder of cp Iliakis off coast from Karpathos a few yrs ago.
Well maybe after all this situation -turkish provocations- might have emerged as a kind of a political game between the Turkish Generals and the new leadership of turkish foreign ministry and because of the fact that Turkey knows for sure that Greece is not going to shoot down their aircrafts responding only by the typical interceptions they want to play with the nerves or test their new foreign minister in order to depict the fact that they have the upper hand. On the other hand all these events are very dangerous and god or Mohamed should put his hand so nobody gets hurt.
We Greece and Turkey already have enough of our domestic problems mostly economic and we shouldnt put more things on the basket and hope that provocations from the turkish generals such as the latter incidents will take an end soon without any further consequences challenging the stability of our region
And this revisionist extremist policy is the one being followed by the official turkish State. The following is from the Turkish Foreign Ministry
1996 they claimed Imia a rocky uninhabited islet and today they claim the sovereinghty of numerous islands even inhabitant calling these citizens as colonists! Who knows what they will say tomorrow.
The Laussane Treaty have clearly stated by its 16th article that Turkey stated her relinquishment of sovereighty rights upon any island which distance was more than 3 miles from the turkish coast except from any named islands such as Imbros and Tenedos and has sovereighty over islands inside the width of the 3 miles with also some exceptions which are named in the Treaty.
Turkey looks to forget after 70 yrs the 16th article of Lossane Treaty as a person that suffer from Alzheimer and also that when the Dodecanese were ceded to Italy they have relinqyished of any claim any right and also by certain points they have defined the delimitation between the Italian Dodecanese -before their cession to Greece- which today they do not recognise. This is called a dangerous escallation
Turkey;s strategey while for more than 70 yrs have accepted the status over Aegean now the last 35 yrs is trying to alter it.
1996 they claimed Imia a rocky uninhabited islet and today they claim the sovereinghty of numerous islands even inhabitant calling these citizens as colonists! Who knows what they will say tomorrow.
The Laussane Treaty have clearly stated by its 16th article that Turkey stated her relinquishment of sovereighty rights upon any island which distance was more than 3 miles from the turkish coast except from any named islands such as Imbros and Tenedos and has sovereighty over islands inside the width of the 3 miles with also some exceptions which are named in the Treaty.
Turkey looks to forget after 70 yrs the 16th article of Lossane Treaty as a person that suffer from Alzheimer and also that when the Dodecanese were ceded to Italy they have relinqyished of any claim any right and also by certain points they have defined the delimitation between the Italian Dodecanese -before their cession to Greece- which today they do not recognise. This is called a dangerous escallation
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nfloorl:I guess they don't even know that, they might claim Corfu or Zante as "vital space" or "physical extension of Turkey"...
It seems that the situation is being escalated by the turks, but one can only enjoy their (new) but funny claims.
Colonization of Agathonisi and Fournoi? Just LOL.
Everybody knows (or can easily learn) that all the small Dodecanese (and other of course) islands have been significantly de-populated over the last few decades, because of the hard life living there and the terrible urbanization trend followed in Greece.
Despite this fact , there are still a handfull of Greeks that still live on such small islands, despite being deprived of things that most of us think as granted (proper medical care, etc).
And now the turks claim that these people are colonists...
FFS we are talking about islands with quite old Greek settlements. clearly obvious to anybody... old houses, old church, etc...
The apointment of Ahmet Davotoglu as Minister of Foreign Affairs can mean only trouble.
We are talking about a geezer that simply claims that the Aegean islands are just a "physical extension of Turkey" (whatever that might mean to a sane person)...
I guess they have to "physically conquer" them before concluding on that...
I wouldn't expect something more from people who claim that Homer was of Turkish origin and the ancient Greek cities of Asia minor are part of ancient turkish world...lack of history makes lack of future some times.
Back to the thread's theme now.
New artillery systems for the Hellenic army
According to www.defencenet.gr there was an agreement about the German army's Μ-109Α3GEΑ2. So Hellenic army will receive a total of 223 systems (169 which are in service with the German army and 54 from the reserves) from which the 169 will be operational in units and the rest 54 will be used for our reserves.
Also we have come to the final stage before the agreement about 24 new PzH2000GR and 12 used from German reserves PzH2000 which will be upgraded to the GR standard.
Finally the about 50 Μ-109Α3GEA1 now in use with the Hellenic army will be upgraded to A3GEA2.
Trully good news after so much time. :dbanana
Back to the thread's theme now.
New artillery systems for the Hellenic army
According to www.defencenet.gr there was an agreement about the German army's Μ-109Α3GEΑ2. So Hellenic army will receive a total of 223 systems (169 which are in service with the German army and 54 from the reserves) from which the 169 will be operational in units and the rest 54 will be used for our reserves.
Also we have come to the final stage before the agreement about 24 new PzH2000GR and 12 used from German reserves PzH2000 which will be upgraded to the GR standard.
Finally the about 50 Μ-109Α3GEA1 now in use with the Hellenic army will be upgraded to A3GEA2.
Trully good news after so much time.
:dbananaI wouldn't expect something more from people who claim that Homer was of Turkish origin and the ancient Greek cities of Asia minor are part of ancient turkish world...lack of history makes lack of future some times.
Back to the thread's theme now.
New artillery systems for the Hellenic army
According to DefenceNet - ?????? ?????? there was an agreement about the German army's Μ-109Α3GEΑ2. So Hellenic army will receive a total of 223 systems (169 which are in service with the German army and 54 from the reserves) from which the 169 will be operational in units and the rest 54 will be used for our reserves.
Also we have come to the final stage before the agreement about 24 new PzH2000GR and 12 used from German reserves PzH2000 which will be upgraded to the GR standard.
Finally the about 50 Μ-109Α3GEA1 now in use with the Hellenic army will be upgraded to A3GEA2.
Trully good news after so much time.
A typical tactic I observed in the forums by some people (no racial stereotyping but mostly from the same side you are in) is to first troll with a few sentences and then call the others back to the topic. This way, I assume you believe you can justify your accusations and assume people would not dare to reply.
Anyway, back to the thread's theme now (you see, you are perhaps right, we may be good at stealing your ideas), considering the fiasco of Milgem News Nutuk baited with them, I would take any news from defencenet with salt and grain
To me, they are bunch of thiefs, stealing the pictures from other people and removing the original logos. More at: http://turkishnavy.blogspot.com/2009/04/how-do-you-spell-copyright-in-greek.htmlAnd if this is not enough back to the topic, here are collections of videos related to the latest Turkish exercise, Tuz Golu 2009.
Tuz Gölü 2009 Tatbikati 1 | TRSavunma
Tuz Gölü 2009 Tatbikati 2 | TRSavunma
Tuz Gölü 2009 Tatbikati 3 | TRSavunma
For further back to the topic news, here are collection of IDEF'09 pictures and videos (mostly the technologies copied from advanced nations I presume, after all, we not only missing a history, but also technological know-how.)
http://trsavunma.com/?q=node/41812
http://trsavunma.com/?q=node/41748
http://trsavunma.com/?q=node/41760
http://trsavunma.com/?q=node/41779
http://trsavunma.com/?q=node/41803
http://trsavunma.com/?q=node/41747
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Speaking of "typical tactics", please "dare" to reply the following turkish typical ridiculusly claiming tactics, so as everybody can understand what the term "ridiculus claims" might really mean.
Ege DenizindeTurk Haklari by the turkish history "academic" Mehmet Saka claims that:
-all the Aegean civilizations -between them the Greek as well- were of turkish origin.
- the Minoans, the Myceneans, the Ionians, the Trojan, the Pelasgians were proto-turkic peoples.
-The ancient Greeks were just a small branch of the "great turkic nation", the "only one that had the power to create great states and civilizations".
NOTE that this book is used in some academic history departments but most importantly in the military schools of turkey.
Then you have Selahattin Salizikin in his Turk Yunan iliskileri tarihi ve etniki eterya, claiming that turks came to the Aegean about 2480 BC, and that Democritus, Pythagoras and Homer were of turkish origin.
NOTE that this work of his has been approved by the turkish ministry of education for teaching.
You want me to continue with your primary school books and their contents or you get the picture?
Both sides need to learn to express their opinion in respectful and professional manner and READ THE RULES:
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/rules.php
When both parties learn to respect each other then we will think about re-opening this thread.
Btw, in case you missed it while you were trying to think of best way to demean and insult your greek/turkish counterpart but the topic of the thread is Arms Race between Turkey and Greece - I don't see how that translates into discussing history and human rights violations and politics?
ciao
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/rules.php
When both parties learn to respect each other then we will think about re-opening this thread.
Btw, in case you missed it while you were trying to think of best way to demean and insult your greek/turkish counterpart but the topic of the thread is Arms Race between Turkey and Greece - I don't see how that translates into discussing history and human rights violations and politics?
ciao
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