Arms race: Greece & Turkey
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The following data comes from the greek press.
According to this article for the fiscal yr 2008 defence budget for Turkey is about 11.3 billion dollars 1.85% of GNP. For comparison in 2006 the budget was for 8.3 billion dollars.
But except these 11.3 billion dollars we must add to the budget for the coast guard and the gendarme budget plus the 2.5 billion dollars that are given for armaments. The final total reaches the amount for the 2008 to about 16 billion dollars or 11 bilion euros meaning 2.74% of GNP.
Out of this total about 4.5 billion dollars will be directed to finance armament projects.
From the other side of the Aegean Greece is going to spent 4.2 billion euros plus 1.8 billion euros. Total of 6 billion euros. The last amount wil be used in order to pay off for armament projects which were signed yrs before and not for new ones.
According to this article for the fiscal yr 2008 defence budget for Turkey is about 11.3 billion dollars 1.85% of GNP. For comparison in 2006 the budget was for 8.3 billion dollars.
But except these 11.3 billion dollars we must add to the budget for the coast guard and the gendarme budget plus the 2.5 billion dollars that are given for armaments. The final total reaches the amount for the 2008 to about 16 billion dollars or 11 bilion euros meaning 2.74% of GNP.
Out of this total about 4.5 billion dollars will be directed to finance armament projects.
From the other side of the Aegean Greece is going to spent 4.2 billion euros plus 1.8 billion euros. Total of 6 billion euros. The last amount wil be used in order to pay off for armament projects which were signed yrs before and not for new ones.
Hi again friends,
Back from flu and Netherlands...
I will have to quote one of the books in my library regarding the armored and mech infantry brigades in the Aegean islands. Possible tomorrow. If i don't forget
What is the situation for Greek CG/Gendarmes , are they a part of MoD so their budget is included or are they also part of Interior ministry , thus that 6b€ doesn't include their procurements and spendings?
Back from flu and Netherlands...
I will have to quote one of the books in my library regarding the armored and mech infantry brigades in the Aegean islands. Possible tomorrow. If i don't forget
What is the situation for Greek CG/Gendarmes , are they a part of MoD so their budget is included or are they also part of Interior ministry , thus that 6b€ doesn't include their procurements and spendings?
If you are reffering to the police force,they were a responsibility of the ministry of Public Safety,and now they are a responsibility of the ministry of Interior affairs,since the ministry of Publis safety was "deleted"Hi again friends,
Back from flu and Netherlands...
I will have to quote one of the books in my library regarding the armored and mech infantry brigades in the Aegean islands. Possible tomorrow. If i don't forget
What is the situation for Greek CG/Gendarmes , are they a part of MoD so their budget is included or are they also part of Interior ministry , thus that 6b€ doesn't include their procurements and spendings?
.The Coast guard is a responsibility of the ministry of Mercantile Marine.Their budgets are included in the ministries budgets,that's what I know.JackGR I sincerely, honestly hope you are not serious about that number...
A question for our Turkish members
On another forum, I've come across a claim that Turkey is planning to buy or build a light (STOVL) aircraft carrier. I've asked the person making the claim for sources. He claims that it's been widely reported in the Turkish press, but the only source he's provided is from a US website, dated 1999.
Does anyone know anything about this?
I'm skeptical. It isn't on the Turkish military procurement authority website, & he's made other claims (e.g. that the planned LPD has already been ordered) which are contradicted by that site. http://www.ssm.gov.tr/EN/Pages/default.aspx
On another forum, I've come across a claim that Turkey is planning to buy or build a light (STOVL) aircraft carrier. I've asked the person making the claim for sources. He claims that it's been widely reported in the Turkish press, but the only source he's provided is from a US website, dated 1999.
Does anyone know anything about this?
I'm skeptical. It isn't on the Turkish military procurement authority website, & he's made other claims (e.g. that the planned LPD has already been ordered) which are contradicted by that site. http://www.ssm.gov.tr/EN/Pages/default.aspx
@Jack
Quoting myself ;
What i tried to point is , Elite troops like Commandos of Gendarmes , Navy or the Armed Forces are not under command of OKK ("THE Special Forces" from my point of view) which in its size equal to Army Corps and has SAT/SAS/MAK/DAK teams under its command.. These commandos rather are Elite soldeirs and mostly consist of Conscripts unlike OKK who are made of all professional.
I know this is a confusing issue
@Swerwe ;
an LPD Rfi has been released and we will see an order for the LPD in the near future. However there are no plans for a light carrier for the mid-term. There are plans to locally produce AAW frigates with the know how gained from ingenious MiLGEM OPV corvette.
@fantasma;
I am in a very busy period and still couldn't quote the book i mentioned above. I will try to do it when i have so please have patience with me.
Quoting myself ;
I think we can all imagine Army Corps sized unit has more personnel than 600.
What i tried to point is , Elite troops like Commandos of Gendarmes , Navy or the Armed Forces are not under command of OKK ("THE Special Forces" from my point of view) which in its size equal to Army Corps and has SAT/SAS/MAK/DAK teams under its command.. These commandos rather are Elite soldeirs and mostly consist of Conscripts unlike OKK who are made of all professional.
I know this is a confusing issue
@Swerwe ;
an LPD Rfi has been released and we will see an order for the LPD in the near future. However there are no plans for a light carrier for the mid-term. There are plans to locally produce AAW frigates with the know how gained from ingenious MiLGEM OPV corvette.
@fantasma;
I am in a very busy period and still couldn't quote the book i mentioned above. I will try to do it when i have so please have patience with me.
Thanks.
"Aircraft carrier" has become a wet dream of many around here.
Turkey does not have a plan or project regarding a carrier, be it CVN or STOVL-ski jump type. The matter has been thoroughly analyzed recently; but that's it.
Well the only "water"-battlefield for Turkey is the Aegean.I can't see how an aircraft-carrier can be used there,same thing for my country too,since the distances are too small.Also I don't see a way that Turkey is going to participate in expeditionary forces,so that it may need an aircraft carrier.
Do you think turkey will go for the South Korean design for an LHP? That would be in line with the extremely close cooperation of the two countries in the past few years. I read somewhere that the Korean LHP has the capability to support STOVL aircraft operations due to a special retina applied on its deck that could withstand higher temperatures. Is this the way that Turkey planes to utilize its procurement of 20 F-35's of the STOVL variant?
It should be a very formidable platform as a power projection tool but probably a useless tool in the Aegean and the black sea.
It should be a very formidable platform as a power projection tool but probably a useless tool in the Aegean and the black sea.
dk706 ,
Turkey does not intend to buy F-35B in short term. All of the 116+ (120?) initially planned will be the F-35A variant of the JSF and for the Air force.
For the LPD Italian Fincantieri and Spanish Navaria are first and second favorites of mine to win the contract... Its very likely that the Italians win this contract as well. There is no Korean company that has shown interest in the LPD RfI.
Turkey does not intend to buy F-35B in short term. All of the 116+ (120?) initially planned will be the F-35A variant of the JSF and for the Air force.
For the LPD Italian Fincantieri and Spanish Navaria are first and second favorites of mine to win the contract... Its very likely that the Italians win this contract as well. There is no Korean company that has shown interest in the LPD RfI.
Slight mistake here - an LPH (of which the US navy no longer has any) is a ship like HMS Ocean. It does not have a dock for landing craft. Turkey is seeking a ship with a dock, which means either an LPD (e.g. the Dutch Johann de Witt) or an LHD (e.g. the French Mistral). But the LPD/LHD/LPH etc designations are US navy, & not everyone uses them.
Mistral, like the Korean Dokdo, has a full-length deck, but that by itself does not give the capability to operate the F-35B. The deck must be long enough to take off with a decent payload (VTOL operation is impractical), wide enough (Japanese Oosumi fails on this count), strong enough, unobstructed clear to the bow (Oosumi fails again), & the lifts must be large & strong enough. Of current or building non-US amphibious ships, only Juan Carlos I is clearly suitable. Dokdo is said to have the deck strength & heat-resistance, but the deck length does not look adequate without a ski-jump, which she lacks.
Sorry for the confusion guys. I was actually talking about the Korean Dokdo design that from what Swerve said should probably be classified as an LHD. In a very resent Greek defense mag it implied that the Dokdo was a very probable outcome for the Turkish program but from what beleg is saying it is not and i will take his word for it since he is the best informed in Turkish programs. I knew that turkey was aquaring 120 F-35 but i thought that 20 of them would be of the STOVL variant or at least that was what it was said in the Greek defense press.
Rafale For Greece?
A greek defence site is reporting that the french president Sarkozi,in his visit in Greece will make a very interesting proposal to the greek goverment.If the RAFALE is chosen as the next greek figther than the french not only they wiil establish a production line for the greek fighters but they will also offer a 50% stake in all the RAFALE fighter that will be produced for export in countries other than Greece and France.If such proposal is real than the french is almost certain to get the greek order and achieve their first export hit for their airplane.
A greek defence site is reporting that the french president Sarkozi,in his visit in Greece will make a very interesting proposal to the greek goverment.If the RAFALE is chosen as the next greek figther than the french not only they wiil establish a production line for the greek fighters but they will also offer a 50% stake in all the RAFALE fighter that will be produced for export in countries other than Greece and France.If such proposal is real than the french is almost certain to get the greek order and achieve their first export hit for their airplane.
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