stop getting off topic this is about IAF and the PLAAF not them firing nukes at each others. Norinco is right India needs more experience in developing indigenous stuff the chinese license all russian stuff and manufacture in their country and they develop their weapons by borrowing almost everything from russian avionics, and zoolander dont u think it would help if you would tell usif u mean the indian or the israeli air force. i am thinking of a future scenario of these air forces fighting each otheer will someone plz tell me their ideas on this matter, who has more range, and better power?
PLAAF v. IAF
- Thread starter zoolander
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dabrownguy
New Member
Jatt
Israeli Airforce? I think so.:eek
Israeli Airforce? I think so.:eek
chinawhite
New Member
You do realise your comparing about 300+ BVR platforms to about 160?srev2004 said:
indian air force looks for quality,not the number but on other hand one quality product against 1000 is :lam
nuke as you said india must focus on its indigenous capability,changes on that asprct you can see with in a decade ,i meant lca it will come off along with mca and ather futurestic a/c's.wait and see.but as of now china rules.
nuke as you said india must focus on its indigenous capability,changes on that asprct you can see with in a decade ,i meant lca it will come off along with mca and ather futurestic a/c's.wait and see.but as of now china rules.
dabrownguy
New Member
Add the training, refuelers, bases, and the fact that those 160 have R-77's instead of r-27's it makes up for it. Don't forget to consider the jamming capabilities.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
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Well bases are logical stuff. There about 2 or 3 air force bases in eastern tibet which is about 1000 km from the indian boarder. The indians have like 30-50 bases on the Chinese indian boarder. ( i cant count the dots they too close. ps i am talking about the air force base map)
Anyways, J-10 began production, J-11s are being upgraded along with su-27s.
The mig 21s are all crap, they can hold their own against each other but overall should be retired for the safety of the pilots.
India has super flankers and mirages while the chinese got their J-11s and J-10s.
The outcome of both countries indigious aircrafts(lca, mca for india, j-10, j-xx? for china)
of course foreign surport will influence out come.
India has greater access to weapons while the chinese has to deal with russian techs which are still supurior to chinese techs
Chinese is developing strong engine tech exp the WS-10a engine
while india is devloping high tech radars and etc.
As i said before the outcome rest on indigious programs
so whats the progress on the J-10, J-xx, LCA and MCA
just focus on the developmental stages of these four aircrafts
Anyways, J-10 began production, J-11s are being upgraded along with su-27s.
The mig 21s are all crap, they can hold their own against each other but overall should be retired for the safety of the pilots.
India has super flankers and mirages while the chinese got their J-11s and J-10s.
The outcome of both countries indigious aircrafts(lca, mca for india, j-10, j-xx? for china)
of course foreign surport will influence out come.
India has greater access to weapons while the chinese has to deal with russian techs which are still supurior to chinese techs
Chinese is developing strong engine tech exp the WS-10a engine
while india is devloping high tech radars and etc.
As i said before the outcome rest on indigious programs
so whats the progress on the J-10, J-xx, LCA and MCA
just focus on the developmental stages of these four aircrafts
dabrownguy
New Member
I don't think it'll matter how many aircrafts you can build in a year in todays wars. Hitting factory could dystroy production of an entire radar, seat etc...making an assembly line useless. It isn't WWII anymore. What matters are the number of aircraft already avialable.
China does have refuelers - about 10 H-6 tankers + 8 il-78 that it just bought from the Russians
As for BVR, it's like this:
R-77 capable
100 su-30
26 su-27ubk
120? J-11
PL-12 capable
100+ J-10s
100 J-8II?
and then 50 more su-27 capable of firing R-27
actually, China believes in quality too, that's why it purchases J-10 rather than FC-1 despite J-10 costing 2-3 times as much to replace the J-7s
As for BVR, it's like this:
R-77 capable
100 su-30
26 su-27ubk
120? J-11
PL-12 capable
100+ J-10s
100 J-8II?
and then 50 more su-27 capable of firing R-27
actually, China believes in quality too, that's why it purchases J-10 rather than FC-1 despite J-10 costing 2-3 times as much to replace the J-7s
chinawhite
New Member
Training?....well if you want my opinoin on training on one south asian airforce then.......it would be different from yoursdabrownguy said:
But, who said anything about a conflict. I answered to the post "The IAF is the strongest in Asia." not a regional conflict on the indian border which they would have been at a advantage
Well can you tell me ow the R-77 "makes up" for it?. Considering the active seeker on the R-77 is 20-25km it seems to me it shouldn't warrant such "make up" capability
some old Mirage 2000s. some old mig-29s some Su-30s and some upgraded Mig-21s. Jamming capbilities?
dabrownguy
New Member
I believe they are limited to only refueling J-8's and not very capable.
The last I heard they were ordered. Have they been delievered?
Prove it!
Not from what I know.
Which is why J-7 are still being produced to this day for the PLAAF. Whats the latest J-7G? and the J-10 doesn't cost 2-3 times more than FC-1. They according to Chinese forumers have only a price difference of 5-10 million.
Who would be at a disadvantage? IAF or PLAAF?
Yes and i'm sure the combat record of R-27 is great. The R-77 greatly enhances the capabilities of aircraft. Most BVR engagments happen some 50 km anyways.
You want jamming capabilites?
Mirage 2000's have DB-3136 Remora ECM pod.
The MiG-21Bison makes use of external tempest jammers.
I don't know what the MiG-29's have but since they have been campatable with Super Matra 530 AAM they can certianly make use of tempest jammers.:wave
Even the Su-30MKI make use of Tempest jammers. Which is seems a lot better than their PLAAF counterparts.
At least china's J-7s are not crashing like the indian mig 21s. They shouldnt even be listed. They will be cannon founder when a conflict involving any of the two nations come.
the IL-78s tankers have been delievered. There are pics to prove this.
The number of suhkoi aircrafts are also accuarate.
quantity and quality both matter
you need a certain number of aircrafts to cover a certain area. For exmp, you cant have three squadrons of super flankers covering the whole entire India. however once you have enough, quality does matter.
the IL-78s tankers have been delievered. There are pics to prove this.
The number of suhkoi aircrafts are also accuarate.
quantity and quality both matter
you need a certain number of aircrafts to cover a certain area. For exmp, you cant have three squadrons of super flankers covering the whole entire India. however once you have enough, quality does matter.
long live usa
New Member
true those MiG 21s will be screwed if war broke out they should be used as unmanned target aircraft like America does with the f-4norinco89 said:
dabrownguy
New Member
As GF mentioned the cause of the MiG-21 crashes COULD be due to the lack of Kypton cables/wires. And do you see a MiG-21 crash lately? The early MiG-21's are being flown by NEW pilots, with little experience and the lack of AJTs. They also fly a lot of hours too. The MiG-21Bison don't crash as often now do they? Besides its not like the PLAAF crashes ever make on to the Chinese newspaper now is it? I thought so.
I'd like those.
I was never argueing the number of Flankers but rather the armaments they carry.
Never said quantity doesn't matter.
Bases don't matter?
Not when they have good pilots, upgrades and a lot of numbers. Which on the IAF side they do.
dabrownguy
New Member
Again the MiG-21Bison of the IAF do have BVR capability. They can be armed with active R-77 Adders and HMS guided R-73 Archers. It also makes use of external Israeli and Indian SPJ. Supperior to J-7's of China exept in agility. The IAF makes use of R-77 Adders, R-27 Alamos, R-73 Archers. This is not good for PLAAF because they use the same missiles. The other missiles they use are the French Super Matra 530 BVR missile and Magic II. Also the Fishbeds are still usefull expecially when on the defencive.
Kapton - not Kryptondabrownguy said:
- Kapton can kill planes when it reaches a certain stage (esp if its wired into a fuel tank)
- Krypton kills superman.
chinawhite
New Member
My reply was towards who was the best strongest regional airforce not who would win in a regional conflict. Dont try confuse the subjectdabrownguy said:
25km is for the 9B-1103M while the standard seeker is the 9B-1348 which is 15km.
Yet you cannot tell me how the R-77 enhances the combat capability?. Does that capability defeat a enemy with a 2:1 ratio in arms?. Or which conflict the R-77 has proved itself in.
And please tell me which conflict has seen the use of BVR in mass numbers?. Because the US has prohitbited BVR combat before you had made visual contact with the enemy so that rules out most american conflicts. There is only one good example of the Dutch F-16 at around 50km using a older generation of the Aim-120. So to generalize on 50km something for BVR combat is not well informed.
Most Air to air combat utilizes NEZ and with some versions of the R-27 having MUCH longer ranges than the R-77 that india have i do not see what advantage they hold in battle. the R-27AE has a maximum range of 130KM with a ACTIVE seeker as well. As such matchs the R-77 in the fire and forget category. Having a range 50km longer is a big advantage, well i would say "makes up for it"
Am i somehow meant to be impressed?
You do realise that ALL of the PLA flanker series caries ECM? The Gardeniya pod in particular for the Su-27K and possibliy a newer version for the Su-30MKK
And maybe give a name for the ECm pod instead of calling it a "tempest jammer" ??
these aircraft crashing news where made public ,shows trans perancy of iaf to its public.Who knows these kind of accidents aren't happeing in china .norinco89 said:
regarding indian fighter strength they now quite balanced and they are replacing their old fighters [especialy mig series]with new indigenous and foriegn aircrafts.
guy's even if a war broke out between india and china ,it wont be in near future ,ie at that time [with in one or two decades ] iaf will become superior or equal to its counterparts.