PAF IN 2015

[lalith prasad]

Re: 2015 and "Pakistan Air Force"

dont count your mirages before they are hatched india is also negotiating for mirage 2000-5 it is the front runner according to the indian air chief.60 will be purchesed if the deal goes though with licence manufacture for the rest .and the upgradation of the existing fleet india has recently acquired 16 mirage 2000h .personally i belaive the order would be split between mirage 2000-5 and mig29ovt along with upgradation of both the types .india hopes to induct about 400 aircraft and lca they are looking for a60 squadron combat fleet.navy had recently placed order for 24 mig29k's .there are some reports that the navy may go in for 60 mig29k's besides upgrading and supplementing the existing harriers .there is a proposal to upgrade the harriers with israeli assistance including integrating python5 and derby missiles

 

[adsH]

Re: 2015 and "Pakistan Air Force"

dont count your mirages before they are hatched india is also negotiating for mirage 2000-5 it is the front runner according to the indian air chief.60 will be purchesed if the deal goes though with licence manufacture for the rest .and the upgradation of the existing fleet india has recently acquired 16 mirage 2000h .personally i belaive the order would be split between mirage 2000-5 and mig29ovt along with upgradation of both the types .india hopes to induct about 400 aircraft and lca they are looking for a60 squadron combat fleet.navy had recently placed order for 24 mig29k's .there are some reports that the navy may go in for 60 mig29k's besides upgrading and supplementing the existing harriers .there is a proposal to upgrade the harriers with israeli assistance including integrating python5 and derby missiles

see lalith i see this decision to get your Harrier upgraded by Israeli as ridiculous, BAE system is the DADI of all!! they made the harriers they are the principal partner in making the new F-35 i see very litle point in getting the israeli working on the Harriers.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: 2015 and "Pakistan Air Force"

besides upgrading and supplementing the existing harriers .there is a proposal to upgrade the harriers with israeli assistance including integrating python5 and derby missiles

I'd agree actually. The Harrier will start to become an orphan entity once the USMC and the UK starts to devote effort onto the F-35B.

Depending on the structural integrity of the aircraft, the strategic requirement etc, then the Israelis certainly have the capability to turn it into a more potent airframe.

It's been done before with other aircraft. Australia modified the F-111, once the USAF dropped it from its strike force, Australia became the only airforce using it. we made changes to the electronics, even to some of the external panels and internal mechanicals to make the plane more robust and extend it's life. Singapore and NZ did the same with their A-4's. The RAAF has made changes to the Hornets as well. We designed different weapons rails which were eventually picked up and used by the USAF/USMC, we developed service modules which were a 100th the cost of the US supplied modules and did more for the lower price. The RAAF modified the ASW capability of it's Orion P3C's (to an AP-3c std) where they are universally recognised as the most capable Orion ASW platform in service.


Necessity is the mother of invention.

 

[adsH]

Re: 2015 and "Pakistan Air Force"

besides upgrading and supplementing the existing harriers .there is a proposal to upgrade the harriers with israeli assistance including integrating python5 and derby missiles

I'd agree actually. The Harrier will start to become an orphan entity once the USMC and the UK starts to devote effort onto the F-35B.

Depending on the structural integrity of the aircraft, the strategic requirement etc, then the Israelis certainly have the capability to turn it into a more potent airframe.

It's been done before with other aircraft. Australia modified the F-111, once the USAF dropped it from its strike force, Australia became the only airforce using it. we made changes to the electronics, even to some of the external panels and internal mechanicals to make the plane more robust and extend it's life. Singapore and NZ did the same with their A-4's. The RAAF has made changes to the Hornets as well. We designed different weapons rails which were eventually picked up and used by the USAF/USMC, we developed service modules which were a 100th the cost of the US supplied modules and did more for the lower price. The RAAF modified the ASW capability of it's Orion P3C's (to an AP-3c std) where they are universally recognised as the most capable Orion ASW platform in service.


Necessity is the mother of invention.

exactly and a job well done on resurrecting a Bone-yard F-111 amazing job by RAAF!!

 

[lalith prasad]

Re: 2015 and "Pakistan Air Force"

ndia actually approached british aerospace however the costs of upgrading the harriers was too high .it was then that israelis approched india at a relatively lower cost they proposed an upgrade based on the elm-2032 radar
the original upgrade was meant to be equal to fa2 standard .

 

[rabirizvi]

Re: 2015 and "Pakistan Air Force"

hi, today it was written in jang (urdu news paper) that they got to know from an insider that Gen. Musharraf is gona visit sweden and make a deal for 40 gripen JAS 39 soon.... i dont know how reliable the news is. i cant find any other news paper on net confirming it.so anyone of u read any similar news? the news paper also claims that PAF will start its induction even before the induction of JF-17

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: 2015 and "Pakistan Air Force"

hi, today it was written in jang (urdu news paper) that they got to know from an insider that Gen. Musharraf is gona visit sweden and make a deal for 40 gripen JAS 39 soon.... i dont know how reliable the news is. i cant find any other news paper on net confirming it.so anyone of u read any similar news? the news paper also claims that PAF will start its induction even before the induction of JF-17

If thats the case, they will be a very good network fit with the Eyrie. They're one of the better point defence units available.

As long as people don't go mad and try and turn them into a MMA they'll do the job well.

 

[adsH]

Re: 2015 and "Pakistan Air Force"

hi, today it was written in jang (urdu news paper) that they got to know from an insider that Gen. Musharraf is gona visit sweden and make a deal for 40 gripen JAS 39 soon.... i dont know how reliable the news is. i cant find any other news paper on net confirming it.so anyone of u read any similar news? the news paper also claims that PAF will start its induction even before the induction of JF-17

If thats the case, they will be a very good network fit with the Eyrie. They're one of the better point defence units available.

As long as people don't go mad and try and turn them into a MMA they'll do the job well.

so gf it'll turn out to be a completely modernized C4i networked Air-force, i've actually read this somewhere where it states that Sweden is the only air-force in the world that is purely self defensive. and does any one know what the radar Scan range and the scope angle of the forward looking radar of the upgraded grippen is, i know that Grippen are completely customized to there Buyers needs, so there are no set standards. but i like the Multi mission Swing role feature on the AC it can be a potent three services defensive force just like the EF2000.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: 2015 and "Pakistan Air Force"

I'd be a bit concerned if someone tried to turn the Gripen into an MMA. It's a point defence unit, a short haul interceptor. Trying to make it be a MMA will end up compromising its effectiveness.

I don't know how you could say that Sweden is purely defensive. It's hardware is clearly capable of being used in an offensive capacity. The issue is one of capability to lift and project a capability past the national borders, and at a platform level they can do that - even if it is in a restricted fashion.

The national doctrine may be self defensive in concept - but then so is Switzerland and Luxembourg.

 

[adsH]

Re: 2015 and "Pakistan Air Force"

I'd be a bit concerned if someone tried to turn the Gripen into an MMA. It's a point defence unit, a short haul interceptor. Trying to make it be a MMA will end up compromising its effectiveness.

I don't know how you could say that Sweden is purely defensive. It's hardware is clearly capable of being used in an offensive capacity. The issue is one of capability to lift and project a capability past the national borders, and at a platform level they can do that - even if it is in a restricted fashion.

The national doctrine may be self defensive in concept - but then so is Switzerland and Luxembourg.

thats true aswell self restraint , but i was only saying that because i had read it some where i cannot recall where but it was a credible website, to think of it there are very few out there. about the MMA is this like an extension for AWACS radar range ie like they have an AWAC at center point A (which is well inside the borders of the country) and the Jas-39 on the border with the hostile nation using its extended radar range it can extend the AWACS radar scope and range, is that what you mean by MMA.

hey rabizvi, i can't get through to the Jang web site there servers seams to be down but then again i am getting a response from there servers so it looks like its either a technical problem or DoS attack of some kind its odd, but Jang is paksitan's biggest news network it has credible expertise and infrastructure to deal with problems like these i wonder why it isn't working.

 

[ACM2]

Re: 2015 and "Pakistan Air Force"

I also read that news that mushy is going to tour of Sweden Denmark and Norway in a month and will sign a deal for Girppens with the ToT for repair and spare parts for jet.Lets hope its true.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: 2015 and "Pakistan Air Force"

AdsH, by MMA I was referring to a multi mission capability, not in the ASW MMA sense.

I should have used MRCA rather than MMA.

 

[Aussie Digger]

Re: 2015 and "Pakistan Air Force"

Although it's a bit lacking in range (due to it's small size) the Gripen is very capable of undertaking Strike missions. I've seen photo's of Gripen's being tested with Scalp/EG type precision long range standoff attack weapons, not to mention LGB's, Maverick air to ground missiles, various anti-ship missiles. I should also imagine that the new J series of weapons (JDAM, JSOW, JASSM) shouldn't be too difficult to integrate on the Gripen either. IN addition Gripen possesses a very advanced Electronic Warfare Self Protection System, and a good radar, FLIR/EO capability, so there is no reason it couldn't undertake strike missions.

 

[adsH]

Re: 2015 and "Pakistan Air Force"

I also read that news that mushy is going to tour of Sweden Denmark and Norway in a month and will sign a deal for Girppens with the ToT for repair and spare parts for jet.Lets hope its true.

this is the best part about SAAB they don't only sell a weapon, and forget about they support you through a contract with spare and a partnership in building the AC if you want to, and of-course R&D. So spares would be no problem the Electronics would be no problem the RADAR would be the phased array version of Erricson what ever that is, they even have to sign a long term deal with erricson for spares and future improvements, so its quiet a good idea to go for it but the only problem is the Power plant of the Grippn its american. But since Pak is MMNA and its getting help on technology i think they can figure out a way to either maintain or buld them.

 

[adsH]

Re: 2015 and "Pakistan Air Force"

AdsH, by MMA I was referring to a multi mission capability, not in the ASW MMA sense.

I should have used MRCA rather than MMA.

apparently SAAB on there website claim its a true Multi mission AC with a In-flight SWING role capability, i am sure your right though i find it hard to believe that an aircraft can be loaded with so much kit and could perform well in its original role which should be Air defense.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: 2015 and "Pakistan Air Force"

Although it's a bit lacking in range (due to it's small size) the Gripen is very capable of undertaking Strike missions. I've seen photo's of Gripen's being tested with Scalp/EG type precision long range standoff attack weapons, not to mention LGB's, Maverick air to ground missiles, various anti-ship missiles. I should also imagine that the new J series of weapons (JDAM, JSOW, JASSM) shouldn't be too difficult to integrate on the Gripen either. IN addition Gripen possesses a very advanced Electronic Warfare Self Protection System, and a good radar, FLIR/EO capability, so there is no reason it couldn't undertake strike missions.

Thats true to some extent, but the ordnance you are talking about is not avail to Pakistan. That means that they will have to use Chinese weapons or French Weapons. In both cases that will mean a software and rail change as NATO does not allow France access to the software, and China certainly doesn't.

Israeli is the only non US nation that has a demonstrated persistent history of software and rail mixing disparate weapons packages - and I can't see Pakistan using Israel for tech support. The Israeli's are contracted by the Russians on platform mods - so they are out as well.

One of the reasons why Gripen has failed in some countries is due to the fact that they wanted an MRCA platform and the Gripen was uncompetitive (compared to other offerings). It is always possible, but then one has to consider that the Grip is a short haul PDI platform. As such, there are limitations that kick in when you load it up.

I'm not saying it can't do it, I'm saying that there are easier selections if thats what the air doctrine dictates.

 

[Aussie Digger]

Re: 2015 and "Pakistan Air Force"

Well Pakistan already possesses LGB's and Mavericks. I don't see why the SCALP wouldn't be available to Pakistan. It's French designed and built afterall...

 

[adsH]

Re: 2015 and "Pakistan Air Force"

Although it's a bit lacking in range (due to it's small size) the Gripen is very capable of undertaking Strike missions. I've seen photo's of Gripen's being tested with Scalp/EG type precision long range standoff attack weapons, not to mention LGB's, Maverick air to ground missiles, various anti-ship missiles. I should also imagine that the new J series of weapons (JDAM, JSOW, JASSM) shouldn't be too difficult to integrate on the Gripen either. IN addition Gripen possesses a very advanced Electronic Warfare Self Protection System, and a good radar, FLIR/EO capability, so there is no reason it couldn't undertake strike missions.

Thats true to some extent, but the ordnance you are talking about is not avail to Pakistan. That means that they will have to use Chinese weapons or French Weapons. In both cases that will mean a software and rail change as NATO does not allow France access to the software, and China certainly doesn't.

Israeli is the only non US nation that has a demonstrated persistent history of software and rail mixing disparate weapons packages - and I can't see Pakistan using Israel for tech support. The Israeli's are contracted by the Russians on platform mods - so they are out as well.

One of the reasons why Gripen has failed in some countries is due to the fact that they wanted an MRCA platform and the Gripen was uncompetitive (compared to other offerings). It is always possible, but then one has to consider that the Grip is a short haul PDI platform. As such, there are limitations that kick in when you load it up.

I'm not saying it can't do it, I'm saying that there are easier selections if thats what the air doctrine dictates.

i think Pak actually manufactures it own array of Anti ship and other sorts of Bombs and missiles what it need is access to a Long range BVR, which it can't get, it has SD-10 that it has developed but i don't think Pakistanis are very pleased with the Missile its self i know that they have built the Guidance or played a big part in building it. the only way they can get a BVR missile is if they establish a contract with these high tech countries for the Missile. the European countries will not provide these missiles if you don't buy their platform.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: 2015 and "Pakistan Air Force"

Well Pakistan already possesses LGB's and Mavericks. I don't see why the SCALP wouldn't be available to Pakistan. It's French designed and built afterall...

I was under the impression that SCALP was under a restricted sale process.

 

[Paf2010]

Re: 2015 and "Pakistan Air Force"

Pakistan To Purchase Gripen Jets From Sweden

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ISLAMABAD (June 15, 2004): Pakistan is acquiring State-of-the-art high-tech front role JAS-Gripen Planes for the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) from Sweden. The planes on their induction in the PAF would help restore the balance in air defence over the South Asian skies especially between Pakistan and India. The Gripens are far superior especially between Pakistan and India. The Gripens are far superior than Mig-27, Mig-29, Mig-31 and Mairage-2000, the front role Indian fighters planes.

Well-placed defense sources told The News here on Monday that President General Pervez Musharraf is visiting three important Scandinavian countries next month including Sweden and it is expected that the deal for purchase of the Gripens would come up for discussion. The president will also visit Denmark and Norway in the same trip.

The sources said that Pakistan is going for JAS-39 version of the Gripen planes, considered to be far more effective than US F-16s, the only front role state-of-the-art planes the PAF is relying and the mainstay of the Pakistan Air Force for any eventuality. The overhauling and maintenance technology of these planes will also be transferred to Pakistan by Sweden once the deal is struck, the sources said.

Pakistan has decided to acquire the Gripens after finding difficulties in getting US made F-16s. Islamabad has also studied French-made Rafael and upcoming European planes, Euro fighters. However, it was decided to go into a deal for the Gripens.

Pakistan is expecting to induct JF-17 Thunder in the PAF in early 2007 but the Gripens would be available much before that, the sources said. The PAF is in dire need of high-tech planes. The Gripens will adequately fulfil this need, the sources said. Pakistan could not have any high-tech plane after acquiring F-16s some 20 years ago.

The JF-17 Thunder will be framed close to the F-16s while the Gripens will be Delta wing planes resembling with French made Mairage-2000 and will be all weather capability planes with multi-role of fighting, bombing and reconnaissance. The supersonic Gripens will be flying with mach-2plus speed, beating in speed all its contemporaries, the sources said.

The single seat fighter-attacker-reconnaissance Gripen is heads up and down display (hudd) that replaces normal flight instruments. Its excellence has already proven and with Electronic Counter Measures (ECM) and navigation system, the Gripen is considered to be the current century's plane in true sense, the sources added.

The sources said that Sweden is prepared to supply the planes according to the requirement of Pakistan. Foreign Secretary Riaz Khokhar visited Sweden last month and discussed with the authorities in Stockholm schedule of the visit of the presidnet. Both the capitals are engaged in finalising the dates for the visit. It is expected that Lt Gen (Retd) Hamid Nawaz, secretary defense would also be part of the entourage of the president, the sources added.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Pakistan is going for JAS-Gripen with option to get SNECMA M88-3 engine from France, also SD-10 BVRAAM from China and local manufacture H-1, H-2, H-4 AAM

M-88-3
length - 139 inch
width - 27.5 inch
weight - 1,970 lb
thrust - 21,350 lb