Arms race: Greece & Turkey

[Atilla [TR]]

I know you country is about to get 100 F-35 and me speaking against them for not be able to do that or this makes you mad so you are willing to accept any argument just to keep your F-35 in a good light. I already told you all this information but with painstacking job you can find on other pages (meaning you will have to google using translator on ... that can be frustrating).

But before you judge anything about Carlo Copp I sugest you read something about this man. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlo_Kopp )

English is my first language Turkish is my second language, which proves that you go into assumptions pretty fast without researching. I was born in Turkey but lived there for a short time couple months then I moved out, back in Turkey now. Also do think that the Aussie members on this forum do not know as much as this Carlo Copp figure for all we know he could have someones money in his pocket that did not come from his paycheck. Also correct me if I am wrong you are from the balkans with Slavic desent right? If so you could be biased about a Russian plane.

 

[Viktor]

You guessed right. Im Croat. But no matter that Carlo Copp biography remains the same and I sugest you read it more carefully.

But even if you dont like him that same information can be found on other russian and western sites ... so I dont se the reason for your susspicion.

 

[beleg]

We can't have everything but as already, and correctly according to Greek media, fantasma has posted here some 30 new F-16's will replace the A-7's, i think the A-7H are already out of service and the A-7E's are the ones to be replaced.

The 80 fighters after 2015 is a prospect that emerged in the recent counsils about the future of HAF. That program also belongs in the next defence planning which will cover the years after 2012. With a new budget of course.

Don't forget that most of those programs, especially the new fighters (60), are discussed since 2002 and in 2004 we were just one step before buying the Eurofighters, after that came a long time stability in most of the programs, not only for HAF but also for the Army and the Navy as well.

So according to the budget the numbers are close to reality because we are talking for a gap in deals of about 8 years so the 10 billions is not such a fictionary number if we think that the 5 blns would have been used before 4 years

So you will buy 30 new F-16s & 60 new gen fighters today and 80 new fighters for 2015 period? Thats almost an airforce in 10 years.. i don't see it likely

 

[BLACK SHIP]

So you will buy 30 new F-16s & 60 new gen fighters today and 80 new fighters for 2015 period? Thats almost an airforce in 10 years.. i don't see it likely

Those are numbers the media is reporting.
The basic needs are 40 new fighters for 2010-2012 delivery.
The next order will be after the 2015 with deliveries 2018-2020.
The total requirement will vary but there is an urgent need for a replacement of A7Hs A7Es RF4Es F4Es.Those planes will go in that order and the requirement of 120 new airframes comes in line with the decision to maintain a 300 front line airforce into the next decade.

 

[eliaslar]

You are true, that's almost an airforce!
But on the other hand Turkey is preparing also it's new airforce with the F35's, 100 aircrafts is nearly 1/3 of todays THK F-16's am i right?

I would be very surprised if there wasn't a schedule for post 2015 HAF. Don't you also think so?

 

[Atilla [TR]]

You are true, that's almost an airforce!
But on the other hand Turkey is preparing also it's new airforce with the F35's, 100 aircrafts is nearly 1/3 of todays THK F-16's am i right?

I would be very surprised if there wasn't a schedule for post 2015 HAF. Don't you also think so?

Still curious as to what Greece will buy everyone in Greece wants the one of the SU 27 series of fighters the government is looking at a Euro solution. I reason why I think Turkey cut back on the number of F-35 they where going to buy is because they are waiting for what Greece is going to come up with.

 

[eliaslar]

@Attila
when did Turkey cut the number of F35's?

 

[Atilla [TR]]

@Attila
when did Turkey cut the number of F35's?

The original number was 120, F-35 and I heard somewhere another 60 Eurofighters. THese I know are not because of financial problems because Turkey actually increased there budget and can increase there budget for much more defense products.

 

[jedigman]

The original number was 120, F-35 and I heard somewhere another 60 Eurofighters. THese I know are not because of financial problems because Turkey actually increased there budget and can increase there budget for much more defense products.

Turkey has always had a requirement for 100 aircraft not 120.
Please don't spread the inaccuracies, like you always do...

 

[Atilla [TR]]

Turkey has always had a requirement for 100 aircraft not 120.
Please don't spread the inaccuracies, like you always do...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1670482/posts
http://www.air-attack.com/news/news...ter-exceeds-JSF-offer-for-local-industry.html

The above articles are about the Eurofighter but Turkey was going to buy both Eurofighter and F-35 and it is safe to say that they would have bought much more then 120 aircrafts as a combo.
And yet again you have accused me of being a liar on an open forum. Yet you are the one on a thread about the Tisas Zigana T you posted a video from youtube saying that the person in the video was you. When I contacted the person he said he had new clue of defencetalk.com, and that he was very mad someone would take credit for his work.

The forum is here http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7416&highlight=Zigana

Looks like you Jedigman have changed what he wrote. Yet because i quoted him right after you can see what Jedigman wrote before he edited his post after I found out, Jedigman specifically says that the person in the video is himself. You guys can contact the man in the video as well his youtube account is engingirgin, he will tell you that it he is not Jedigman on Defencetalk.com.

 

[jedigman]

Mr Atilla, i think you have trouble distinguishing Fact from opinion, this problem can be solved if you read the article properly.

 

[beleg]

Since the beginning the planned airframes for the new gen fighter for THK was 120 aircraft NOT 100. The final numbers might change before the final decision but the RFI was for 120 aircraft!

 

[Atilla [TR]]

Since the beginning the planned airframes for the new gen fighter for THK was 120 aircraft NOT 100. The final numbers might change before the final decision but the RFI was for 120 aircraft!

@ Beleg why do you suppose they lowered the number of planes not enough cash or they not to sure about the F-35?

 

[superhornet]

My whole point is Turkey = JSF and possibly EF deal. Greece equals no 5th gen fighter. If Turkey gets JSF and Greece doesn't this will be a fundamental shift in the balance of power as JSF renders everything else obsolete. Considering Turkey's active forces number 700,000 and Hellenic forces number well under 200,000 I think the numbers speak for themselves.:shudder

In the long run, without doubt Turkey will surpass Greece at any aspect of armment match. the reason is quite simple and obvious, Turkey economy absolutely have an strong edge over Greece. Turkey has much potential to be a district power and leader. well, Greece is a small-size with smaller population compared with Turkey's 70,000,000. So we can see that Turkey must has more money to buy more advanced and sophisticated weapon system.

Now, it's interesting to notice that both Greece and Turkey have a lot of fighting falcon, and nearly outmoded F-4phantom. wow, imagine what will happen if ,only if Greece and Turkey have a real war.. yeah, F-16C/D is a good fighter......lol, i hope there never be a fight between Greece viper and turkey viper...

nowadays, Greece own a better air defense system, with all kind of advanced SAM. why has Greece bought patriot while still purchase Russia-made SAM. Does not Patriot work well?

 

[beleg]

@ Beleg why do you suppose they lowered the number of planes not enough cash or they not to sure about the F-35?

The number of planes is not lowered. The information was asked for 120 planes. The final amount will be decided later this year but the number that was talked in the parliament earlier was 116 planes if i remember correctly. Those planes will be used to phase out F-4s and later F-4Terminators.

 

[eliaslar]

@superhornet
Greece bought Pattriot because there should be a complete air defence umbrella over Greece with various systems and with different capabilities, that's the reason why Pattriot co-exists with Russian made SAM, both systems Pattriot and S-300 and in the future S-400 complete the air defence.

Also if a lot out of topic the population is not the only measure to count a country's economy, the country's stability, there is no matter against the political stability in Greece, is a key factor in the economy of a country and its currency of course, don't forget that Greece is a member of the Monetary Union and it's currency is Euro, that means a lot i think.
Also if we take a closer look Greece is doing more investments in Turkey than Turkey is doing in Greece...and in those investments we can count major Banks and factories.
Turkey seems to have all the potentials you claim to become a district power, but don't forget the rest major players of this region but that also depends on which region you refer to.

 

[Atilla [TR]]

@superhornet
Greece bought Pattriot because there should be a complete air defence umbrella over Greece with various systems and with different capabilities, that's the reason why Pattriot co-exists with Russian made SAM, both systems Pattriot and S-300 and in the future S-400 complete the air defence.

Basically it is because Greece is @$$ kissing both sides, America for money and Russia for Gas. So they wanted both sides happy and they came up with this solution.

 

[fantasma]

Basically it is because Greece is @$$ kissing both sides, America for money and Russia for Gas. So they wanted both sides happy and they came up with this solution.

So you tell us that Turkey have never used till today armament projects to promote her national interests. If that happened i cannot say that Turkey is @$$ kissing but a nation that wants to provide her national interests using any ways she has in order to achieve them. So if Turkey byus armaments from US and she byus a lot it does it for money or for other diplomatical reasons as a nation being inside NATO etc? As from Russia Turkey has also russian weaponry and russian pipeline blue stream with gas passes through Turkey.

 

[eliaslar]

Actually the decision for every such deal is taken from the politicians, they have to compromise the best, the army suggests with the best for the country's diplomacy and economy. Every country uses such ways to promote its interests.
The fact after all those deals now is not that Greece tried to keep everyone happy but Greece has two very sofisticated weapons in it's armoury and everything seems to be very good in the diplomatic stage

 

[Kosovo=Serbia]

What NATO thinks about this race ? ? ?