Pakistan Air Force [PAF] News and Discussions

[aaaditya]

well ,once again familiar statements are coming from the russian side about the chineses sale of jf17 equipped with russian engines to pakistan,i believe we may know something definite once the russian defence minister visits india.

here check out this link and article:

http://www.hindu.com/2007/01/22/stories/2007012206341400.htm

The JF-17 fighter aircraft have been powered by Russian RD-93 engines


New Delhi, Moscow to sign pact on 5th generation fighter plane
Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov to visit India

MOSCOW: Russia has blocked the sale of Chinese fighter planes with Russian engines to Pakistan.
"We've denied China the right to supply its JF-17 fighter aircraft powered by Russian RD-93 engines to third countries, asking it to sign an end-user certificate for the engines," said Colonel-General Anatoly Mazurkevich, head of the Defence Ministry's International Cooperation Department.
President Pervez Musharraf said last year that the JF-17s would be flying in Pakistani skies by March 2007. Islamabad plans to acquire 150 JF-17s, known in China as FC-1. China has bought 100 Klimov RD-93 engines from Russia for installing on JF-17s, with an option to contract another 400 engines.
Speaking to Indian and Russian journalists ahead of a visit to India by Russia's Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov on January 22, Col.-Gen. Mazurkevich confirmed that India and Russia are shortly to sign accords to jointly develop and produce a 5th generation fighter plane and a multi-role transport aircraft.
India is expected to announce during Mr. Ivanov's visit its choice between two Russian concepts of a multi-role stealth fighter plane of the 5th generation that the Russian aviation majors, Sukhoi and MIG, presented to the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) last year. The aircraft deals will be discussed when Mr. Ivanov co-chairs with Defence Minister A.K. Antony the 6th meeting of the Indo-Russian Inter-Governmental Commission for Military-Technical Cooperation. Ahead of the commission meeting on January 24 Mr. Ivanov will fly to Bangalore to visit the HAL and the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO), as well as some leading Information and Technology companies, and meet business people.

 

[uaf]

well ,once again familiar statements are coming from the russian side about the chineses sale of jf17 equipped with russian engines to pakistan,i believe we may know something definite once the russian defence minister visits india.

here check out this link and article:

http://www.hindu.com/2007/01/22/stories/2007012206341400.htm

The JF-17 fighter aircraft have been powered by Russian RD-93 engines


New Delhi, Moscow to sign pact on 5th generation fighter plane
Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov to visit India

MOSCOW: Russia has blocked the sale of Chinese fighter planes with Russian engines to Pakistan.
"We've denied China the right to supply its JF-17 fighter aircraft powered by Russian RD-93 engines to third countries, asking it to sign an end-user certificate for the engines," said Colonel-General Anatoly Mazurkevich, head of the Defence Ministry's International Cooperation Department.
President Pervez Musharraf said last year that the JF-17s would be flying in Pakistani skies by March 2007. Islamabad plans to acquire 150 JF-17s, known in China as FC-1. China has bought 100 Klimov RD-93 engines from Russia for installing on JF-17s, with an option to contract another 400 engines.
Speaking to Indian and Russian journalists ahead of a visit to India by Russia's Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov on January 22, Col.-Gen. Mazurkevich confirmed that India and Russia are shortly to sign accords to jointly develop and produce a 5th generation fighter plane and a multi-role transport aircraft.
India is expected to announce during Mr. Ivanov's visit its choice between two Russian concepts of a multi-role stealth fighter plane of the 5th generation that the Russian aviation majors, Sukhoi and MIG, presented to the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) last year. The aircraft deals will be discussed when Mr. Ivanov co-chairs with Defence Minister A.K. Antony the 6th meeting of the Indo-Russian Inter-Governmental Commission for Military-Technical Cooperation. Ahead of the commission meeting on January 24 Mr. Ivanov will fly to Bangalore to visit the HAL and the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO), as well as some leading Information and Technology companies, and meet business people.

Yea ok fine

Keep on dreaming dude

I don’t get it why Indians are so curious to see this deal off ??
Man you are getting lots of stuff from Su-30 MKI to 126 MRCA , you really think by behaving like that India Pakistan can be good neighbors come on wake up what ever India is getting doesn’t matter but what Pakistan getting “ hell no don’t stop it “

Mark my word it could end up as blessing in disguise J-10 is shaping up very nicely!

 

[DragonKing786]

Guyies don't worry let them do what they want to do,. WS-13 will soon be ready a report said that its almost their with completion., Plus with the delay PAF can get more cash to pump up the order of J-10 or possibly get more F-16s. This will be Russia's loss to get cash, but also remember WS-13 is going to be more powerful than RD-93 engines and could possibly have Thurst vector capability,. but these things are given they always protest even when we were buying Anti-Tank missiles their RAW agency came to US saying it could be used aganist them, I was thinking in my head like no shit it will be used aganist you guyies, India will always whine and cry, but also know this is Indian news and nothing will be official until we see the guy visit India and officially confirm it, India media is know to make alot of bull crap up.

 

[falconlover81]

Guys i just dont understand what the hell is going on because see on one hand just a few months back at Zuhai klimov along with rosoboronexport in a press conference confirmed that they had no objections to china's selling of the RD-93 powered JF-17 Thunder to Pakistan and now this guy from russia has contradicted the same news and asked china to sign the "end user certificate" which bans china from selling the engine to pakistan.when will this ordeal end it just keeps getting longer and longer

 

[SATAN]

Yea ok fine
Keep on dreaming dude
I don’t get it why Indians are so curious to see this deal off ??
Man you are getting lots of stuff from Su-30 MKI to 126 MRCA , you really think by behaving like that India Pakistan can be good neighbors come on wake up what ever India is getting doesn’t matter but what Pakistan getting “ hell no don’t stop it “

Mark my word it could end up as blessing in disguise J-10 is shaping up very nicely!

Simple reason, Hindustan or idia bharat whatever its called.....is a sworn enemy of Pakistan. It will block whatever arms it is getting from different sources. It tried to block the new F-16s...the JAS Gripen back in 2002....the Mirage2005 from qatar....and now the engines for the JF-17.
Meanwhile, it equips its forces with more modern stuff and arms itself to the teeth so that when the time comes when it will finally attack Pakistan in the near distant future ...it will have total superiority. For some reason...indiaa/hindustan/bhaarat is totally obsessed with Pakistan.

 

[SATAN]

Guys i just dont understand what the hell is going on because see on one hand just a few months back at Zuhai klimov along with rosoboronexport in a press conference confirmed that they had no objections to china's selling of the RD-93 powered JF-17 Thunder to Pakistan and now this guy from russia has contradicted the same news and asked china to sign the "end user certificate" which bans china from selling the engine to pakistan.when will this ordeal end it just keeps getting longer and longer

My guess is the Chinese engine will power the JF17. Meanwhile...it would be great if PAF actually flies the J-10 on its defence day sometime in March. That is sure to make some people break out in Hives in a neighbouring country to its east.

 

[WAR]

P & W F-100 Engines.

There was some talk in a specific PAF circles that Pakistan showed some interest for Pratt @ Whitney F-100 series engines with the United States to be used other than F-16s.

Can anyone confirm, or otherwise?

 

[DragonKing786]

Simple reason, Hindustan or idia bharat whatever its called.....is a sworn enemy of Pakistan. It will block whatever arms it is getting from different sources. It tried to block the new F-16s...the JAS Gripen back in 2002....the Mirage2005 from qatar....and now the engines for the JF-17.
Meanwhile, it equips its forces with more modern stuff and arms itself to the teeth so that when the time comes when it will finally attack Pakistan in the near distant future ...it will have total superiority. For some reason...indiaa/hindustan/bhaarat is totally obsessed with Pakistan.

Yeah,. they are obsessed I mean their's a limit that you go to, not for every single sale, I mean what kind of wanna be so called super power is this. Its just pathetic has pakistan once whinned about Indian purcahses??? NEVER!!! This is actually getting really old and tiring beyond imagination where ever we go their are right behind us with a loud mouth to talk once we leave negotiations. MAKES MY HEAD POP AT THESE PEOPLE> :nutkick

 

[webmaster]

Here is news from more reliable source than "hindu.com." The very first news regarding latest no engines from Russians for JF-17 came from hindu.com and then picked up by zeenews and the rest... pretty standard for the indian media.

Bangalor. 23 January. INTERFAKS-AVN - Vice- premier - Minister of Defense RF Sergey Ivanov denied report, that Russia allegedly blocked supply agreement to Pakistan of Chinese combat aircraft.

"Russia nothing blocks. This is not our policy", he stated on Tuesday to journalists in Bangalore.

At the same time S.Ivanov it noted that in a question of military technical collaboration Russia strictly soblyudayet international law. "I have in the form a certificate of the end user. RF achieves trade in weapon only with the presence of this certificate ", it emphasized S.Ivanov.

Source Interfax

 

[P.A.F]

http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.shtml?166846

No Russian engines for Sino-Pak JF-17 jets: defence official
[SIZE=+1][/SIZE]



MOSCOW: A senior Russian Defence Ministry official Monday ruled out the supply of RD-93 jet engines developed by the country for the joint Sino-Pak fighter aircraft, saying China has no right to transfer them to third countries, including Pakistan.
The Thunder JF-17 fighter is a joint venture between Beijing and Islamabad and Moscow holds the key to its success by allowing China to install Russian-made RD-93 jet engines, initially developed for the upgradation of MiG-29 fighters inherited by Berlin after German re-unification, PTI reported.
"We have an end-user license agreement (EULA) with China, which does not allow the transfer of these engines to Pakistan or any other country. We do not have any intention to change the EULA conditions," the official said speaking on condition of anonymity.
Earlier, briefing the media ahead of Russian Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov's India visit beginning, Chief of the International Cooperation Department of the Ministry, Colonel-General Anatoly Mazurkevich said, "De jure China has no right to install RD-93 engines on the fighters to be delivered to Pakistan." According to agreement, China's Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation is to roll out 16 JF-17 Thunder fighters for Pakistan Air Force beginning from March this year. China has been pressing Moscow to allow the deliveries of fighters with Russian engines to Pakistan. However, Moscow seems to have finally decided to say no to Beijing, putting the Sino-Pak venture in jeopardy.
________________________________________________________

What about this report??? it's a pakistani source??? is this false too???

 

[aaaditya]

http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.shtml?166846

No Russian engines for Sino-Pak JF-17 jets: defence official




MOSCOW: A senior Russian Defence Ministry official Monday ruled out the supply of RD-93 jet engines developed by the country for the joint Sino-Pak fighter aircraft, saying China has no right to transfer them to third countries, including Pakistan.
The Thunder JF-17 fighter is a joint venture between Beijing and Islamabad and Moscow holds the key to its success by allowing China to install Russian-made RD-93 jet engines, initially developed for the upgradation of MiG-29 fighters inherited by Berlin after German re-unification, PTI reported.
"We have an end-user license agreement (EULA) with China, which does not allow the transfer of these engines to Pakistan or any other country. We do not have any intention to change the EULA conditions," the official said speaking on condition of anonymity.
Earlier, briefing the media ahead of Russian Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov's India visit beginning, Chief of the International Cooperation Department of the Ministry, Colonel-General Anatoly Mazurkevich said, "De jure China has no right to install RD-93 engines on the fighters to be delivered to Pakistan." According to agreement, China's Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation is to roll out 16 JF-17 Thunder fighters for Pakistan Air Force beginning from March this year. China has been pressing Moscow to allow the deliveries of fighters with Russian engines to Pakistan. However, Moscow seems to have finally decided to say no to Beijing, putting the Sino-Pak venture in jeopardy.
________________________________________________________

What about this report??? it's a pakistani source??? is this false too???

good news for you guys,it seems that the russians will supply the rd engines as per their contractual obligations as per the latest statements from the russian defence minister.

 

[aaaditya]

however china will have to sign an end user agreement with russia,which will give russia veto powers to prevent the sale of this engine to third nations,without their permission.

 

[webmaster]

Again, it picked up the news from who? Hindu.com. Read the interfax report, a much more reliable source.

A person with little bit of brain does not need this type of "news" reporting. Ask your self this question:

Say you want to start a MULTI-MILLION dollar project, would you start the project WITHOUT securing and making sure that the MAIN COMPONENT of that project (engine) in this case is ready and okay to go from people you will buy it from?

Those in the industry please correct me if I am wrong? I would not start such project, risking millions of dollars and then find out no engine. Its like building a house but roof first and then the foundation.

Also note, no comments from China or Pakistan on this matter. For me that points to the fact that Russians are playing a political game with the Indians as far as "denying" the engine goes.

 

[aaaditya]

Again, it picked up the news from who? Hindu.com. Read the interfax report, a much more reliable source.

A person with little bit of brain does not need this type of "news" reporting. Ask your self this question:

Say you want to start a MULTI-MILLION dollar project, would you start the project WITHOUT securing and making sure that the MAIN COMPONENT of that project (engine) in this case is ready and okay to go from people you will buy it from?

Those in the industry please correct me if I am wrong? I would not start such project, risking millions of dollars and then find out no engine. Its like building a house but roof first and then the foundation.

Also note, no comments from China or Pakistan on this matter. For me that points to the fact that Russians are playing a political game with the Indians as far as "denying" the engine goes.

no , but i find it quite fascinating ,the russians are swinging like a pendulum and it would be interesting to see where they stop and how the indian goverment would react and what opportunities it would create for pakistan,frankly i dont care for the the engine or the jf17 fighter,realistically i consider them as minor irritants,they bolster the numbers of the pakistani airforce and add a few additional capabilities,however nothing new,and nothing which can be countered.

however the interesting part is what this deal means for the russia-pakistan relations ,sino-russia and indo-russia relations,and wether it would open the doors for russian defence exports to pakistan via china.

 

[powerslavenegi]

Aaaditya let us not speculate too much,only time will tell as to what engine would power the JF-17.As far as Russians playing games well we have never been on the loosing side of their deals so no issues .

 

[uaf]

no , but i find it quite fascinating ,the russians are swinging like a pendulum and it would be interesting to see where they stop and how the indian goverment would react and what opportunities it would create for pakistan,frankly i dont care for the the engine or the jf17 fighter,realistically i consider them as minor irritants,they bolster the numbers of the pakistani airforce and add a few additional capabilities,however nothing new,and nothing which can be countered.

however the interesting part is what this deal means for the russia-pakistan relations ,sino-russia and indo-russia relations,and wether it would open the doors for russian defence exports to pakistan via china.

Russians aren’t that stupid. They know that India is swinging towards USA and they will have to look for new customers infect i would say India might and might not be in the best position as they will have to buy weaponry from Russia as well as if they also decides to buy American , just to keep them in their own basket but how long India can do that lets see, further like it said in next few years China will surpass Russia in most of technological advances thanks to the no shortage of money J-10 is an example of it after that Pakistan wont have to buy form Russians.

Its a critical stage not just for Russia but also for India 126 MRCA deal should have been signed long time ago but .......... there are lots of IF'S and BUT's

any ways there always had been lots of rumors in past we should swallow this one too but my Indian friend should get one thing straight again as i said in my last post IF only IF Russia wont supply the Engines it could end up as blessing in disguise.

 

[SATAN]

Again, it picked up the news from who? Hindu.com. Read the interfax report, a much more reliable source.

A person with little bit of brain does not need this type of "news" reporting. Ask your self this question:

Say you want to start a MULTI-MILLION dollar project, would you start the project WITHOUT securing and making sure that the MAIN COMPONENT of that project (engine) in this case is ready and okay to go from people you will buy it from?

Those in the industry please correct me if I am wrong? I would not start such project, risking millions of dollars and then find out no engine. Its like building a house but roof first and then the foundation.

Also note, no comments from China or Pakistan on this matter. For me that points to the fact that Russians are playing a political game with the Indians as far as "denying" the engine goes.

Very true Web Master, You need to understand theres a bit of the usual indiaan idiocracies at play here. The so called 126 plane order was announced in 1998, its been close to a decade since then. First they wanted the Mirage 2005, then the Typhoons,the Rafale ,and before the nuclear deal with the US they wanted to buy the F-18E/F...now they say the Mig-35 is the favourite when Putin is there visiting..nfloorl: ..
As if that wasnt enough, to satisfy their egos...they got to manufacture the RD-33 engines for the Mig29s at the HINDUSTAN aeronautic limited facility. Then to pretend they're really smart...they dangled the huge 126 aircraft sale and stated that the Mig-35 is their favourite , hence it will win. But before they place such a "huge" order Putin has to cancel the RD-33 engine for Pakistan so the JF-17 gets cancelled (perhaps so they dont feel inferior since the LCA is nowehere near being operational after 20 years). The global Defense industry knows indias little power mindset, hence they play along.

You will also note that there have been no statements by the Defense Ministries in Pakistan and China regarding this piece of news, perhaps because they never really intended to fully use the RD-33 on the JF-17..the WS-13 will power it. Everthing is going according to plan. More will suffice when Putin is back in Mother Russia .The JF-17 will fly on March 23rd as planned.

 

[webmaster]

Aaaditya let us not speculate too much,only time will tell as to what engine would power the JF-17.As far as Russians playing games well we have never been on the loosing side of their deals so no issues .

Of course, but then again why are such stories only coming from India/Indian media? And Russians denying the engine isn't the only one!

 

[iceman_pk]

Salaam,
i m a new member to this forum i have been reading this topic for a while. i wanted to know if there is a chance for pakistan getting another US plane like F-15E or F-35 or F-16E/F (even NG) or any other european plane such as rafael or ef-2000 keeping in mind the current acquisitions of PAF.
in 2020 PAF should have
100 F-16 blk 52+ & 30 F-16 blk60
200 Jf-17
100 J-10
50-60 Rafael or EF-2000 or JSF or SU-(any russian plane if possible)
20-30 Any 5th gen plane to be inducted some where in 2019-2020

i wanted to ask if the PAF modernization plan 2019 is available or any guide line r available for comon ppl. and when is first F-16 C\D new & A\B old r going to enter in PAF service.

 

[falconlover81]

Salaam,
i m a new member to this forum i have been reading this topic for a while. i wanted to know if there is a chance for pakistan getting another US plane like F-15E or F-35 or F-16E/F (even NG) or any other european plane such as rafael or ef-2000 keeping in mind the current acquisitions of PAF.
in 2020 PAF should have
100 F-16 blk 52+ & 30 F-16 blk60
200 Jf-17
100 J-10
50-60 Rafael or EF-2000 or JSF or SU-(any russian plane if possible)
20-30 Any 5th gen plane to be inducted some where in 2019-2020

i wanted to ask if the PAF modernization plan 2019 is available or any guide line r available for comon ppl. and when is first F-16 C\D new & A\B old r going to enter in PAF service.

First of all welcome to the forum iceman_pk.second of all if you analyze the armed forces development program 2019 you will find that the only variant the PAF opted for is the Block 52+ F-16.Block-60 is out of question and so is the Strike Eagle.Both the JF-17 Thunder and the J-10 will be in the PAF by 2015.Between the Rafale and the Typhoon i think the Typhoon has greater chances of being procured by the PAF than the Rafale because EADS has indicated Pakistan as a potential costumer a number of times.Russian planes are out of question as are the US fifth generation planes like the Raptor and the JSF.The only fifth generation plane likely to join the PAF is the J-XX.