Thanks Rick...I stand corrected.
Singapore to acquire Leopard 2A4s
- Thread starter kotay
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Highway of johore might be a heavens for armoured collums but might also be a hell ,most part of the highway were built right through hills , making the highways like a manmade valley , both side were covered either with light forest or plantations. A good place for AT ambushed especially with top attack against armoured vehicle. 
my ref was to any armoured column - not just a sing armoured column.Highway of johore might be a heavens for armoured collums but might also be a hell ,most part of the highway were built right through hills , making the highways like a manmade valley , both side were covered either with light forest or plantations. A good place for AT ambushed especially with top attack against armoured vehicle.
besides, on that road I was more afraid of idiot drivers trying to overtake logging trucks going up a hill than getting shot at. (In 1985 the communist insurgents still had pockets of resistance as far as Mersing - and I have the dubious pleasure of remembering my Malaysia stay by getting shot at) :nutkick
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- #164
Are you and caksz talking about the same highways?
The "Highways" of circa 1985 are now, IINM, called trunk roads. The Highway proper a.k.a The Lebuh Raya was officially opened in 1994 and is a totally different kettle of fish or pot of bitumen.
With the toll charges on the Lebuh Raya, most heavy goods vehicle tend to stay on the Trunk roads.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North-South_Expressway
However, those "idiot drivers trying to overtake logging trucks going up a hill" are now trying to overtake 660cc. Perodua Kancils instead.
Now that you've updated me, Its the Trunk road that I'm talking about.
Its a damn scarey experience being overtaken by people who appear to have no respect for others ... I remember in one 50km stretch witnessing over a dozen accidents, most of which were fatal.
Still true today sadly... But i doubt any armour would go up those roads unprotected esp the logging roads those roads are nice places to set ambushes.Now that you've updated me, Its the Trunk road that I'm talking about.
Its a damn scarey experience being overtaken by people who appear to have no respect for others ... I remember in one 50km stretch witnessing over a dozen accidents, most of which were fatal.
Anyway stop putting singapore and malaysia in the What If? the last thing the two countries will do is wage war it would be costly to both human life and more importantly economic and political stability which both have since independence. Both countries have their own defence agenda its not about shit they have this i need one too... Msian Mbt was for its armoured div which was in its pipeline since the 80s it wasnt an overnight decision...
IF they truely want to compete msia would have pump up its defence spending instead they have lowered it...
Speaking to a work mate of mine who was in the Singapore defence force their strategy is to take all their tanks to the country that is giving them problems and use them there and not in Singapore. So Singapore being a small place doesn't matter as regards using leoIIs.
wait so if country A baught warships 5 years ago and country B buys it 5 years later does that mean B is trying to copy A???? my friend when it comes to defence i dont think "my toy is better than yours" comes to play.
that is just sad cause i can imagine when msia buys attack heli which should be soon there will be another post about them copying singapore/thailand in gear to gear? or is it more logical that the funds permit them to buy such weapons?
It would be kinda cool tho if there was such an agreement where by one country cant buy what the other has which would be country A can take fighters but country B can have all the anti aircraft missiles it wants
nfloorl:Please point out where I advocate what you imply I am advocating...
If you are NOT one of those "know-it-all" who kept arguing AGAINST MBTs in Singapore, then you should not be offended by my post and go about your business.
Chino and gary1910
before this gets out of hand. if you have a disagreement then sort it out via PM before its gets to the open forum.
Play nice.
before this gets out of hand. if you have a disagreement then sort it out via PM before its gets to the open forum.
Play nice.
I am so far being pretty polite.Chino and gary1910
before this gets out of hand. if you have a disagreement then sort it out via PM before its gets to the open forum.
Play nice.
I did not say that MBT is totally useless, in fact SG has always operate both LT and MBT, for example like in this thread , OZ also believe in having diffferent equipment in different roles, eventhough they have mainly desert terrain, I believe their concern is strategic mobility, ours is more concern with tactical mobility in closed terrain.
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5716
So it is good to have different capability for different role or terrain, for example Heavy(Armoured with MBT), Medium(Mechanised Infantry), Light( light infantry or RDF).
Due to close terrain in SEA, it is advisable for regional armies in SEA to have light tanks, just like some countries which have hilly terrain to have light tank as well.
MBT still has role like penetrate heavy defence i.e. armour punch and urban warfare.
But light tank still has some uses in certain terrain ,for example as stated in the above thread on light tank,and I quote:
Why the need modified M113 FSV??
I mean OZ had Centurions over in Vietnam.Maybe members here can clarify.
I remember a report tanks in Vietnam, MBT like M-48, can only able to access to abt 60% of the terrain in Vietnam , but during raining season, it drop to 40%!
So it is good to have both LT and MBT in SEA, diiferent capability for different terrain and roles.
Hey Waylander - what do you know about these upgrades to the LEO1 and 2 pictured here.
This should be the MEXAS armor upgrade for the canadian Leopard 1C2s.
If I remember correctly the main emphasis of this upgrade armor is against KE with the protection against CE being not that much raised like the one against KE.
Should also include all the other improvements of the C2 including the Leopard 1A5 turret as base and the EMES-18 (TI, laser range finder,...).
I have seen the picture of the Leopard 2 version before (There are 1 or 2 more pictures from the same location) but I know nothing about it and I never met anybody who could do more than speculating. Maybe a mock-up example for what could be done to upgrade a Leopard II with better armor but not as advanced and expensive like a conversion to A5 standard.
If I remember correctly the main emphasis of this upgrade armor is against KE with the protection against CE being not that much raised like the one against KE.
Should also include all the other improvements of the C2 including the Leopard 1A5 turret as base and the EMES-18 (TI, laser range finder,...).
I have seen the picture of the Leopard 2 version before (There are 1 or 2 more pictures from the same location) but I know nothing about it and I never met anybody who could do more than speculating. Maybe a mock-up example for what could be done to upgrade a Leopard II with better armor but not as advanced and expensive like a conversion to A5 standard.
On the LEO2 the armor add on looks pretty darn thick.
Jup, but it also looks rather conventional compared to the new shaped add on armor of the A5 helping to destabilize or even break a KE rather than reflecting it by pure mass.
And the add on armor does not solves the problem with the ballistic whole at the gunners sight.
But you are right it looks thick. Especially the sides. Maybe an early approach to a MOU upgrade?
And the add on armor does not solves the problem with the ballistic whole at the gunners sight.
But you are right it looks thick. Especially the sides. Maybe an early approach to a MOU upgrade?
The Canadians took them to Afghanistan, how are they holding up so far.
Are they stating that the add on armor on the A5 will also do this with DU KE penetrators.
My previous post was solely about the Leo 2 upgrade picture you showed to me.
And yes they say it works againdt every kind of modern KE. If this is true is another thing...
As to the MEXAS upgrade.
The canadians seem to be pleased with the performance of their armor company out there during support missions.
And yes they say it works againdt every kind of modern KE. If this is true is another thing...
As to the MEXAS upgrade.
The canadians seem to be pleased with the performance of their armor company out there during support missions.
FutureTank
Banned Member
Originally Posted by Waylander
They should consider to do some basic upgrades to their Leos.
The Leo IIA4 has no air condition and I don't want to sit in a tank in a subtropical area without air condition (And the electronic also...).
Where are you planning your holiday?
I heard the next upgrade to Leo 2 will have glass holders for tropical drinksarty :drunk1 (except driver's station)
They should consider to do some basic upgrades to their Leos.
The Leo IIA4 has no air condition and I don't want to sit in a tank in a subtropical area without air condition (And the electronic also...).
Where are you planning your holiday?
I heard the next upgrade to Leo 2 will have glass holders for tropical drinks
arty :drunk1 (except driver's station)Hmm - very interesting on the DU penetrator issue.My previous post was solely about the Leo 2 upgrade picture you showed to me.
And yes they say it works againdt every kind of modern KE. If this is true is another thing...
As to the MEXAS upgrade.
The canadians seem to be pleased with the performance of their armor company out there during support missions.
What does your tropical kit comprise of on the LEO2s.
Like shown for example by Spain (Which operates them in on of the hottest places on earth) the normal funtion of a Leopard II is not compromised by heat so including a normal air condition for the crew makes the Leopard II capable of operating in hot conditions.
It is not as if it could not operate without air condition but constant high temeperature inside of a tank just reduces crew performance.
It is not as if it could not operate without air condition but constant high temeperature inside of a tank just reduces crew performance.