Ibizan Hound
Banned Member
Lybia will not have a proper military if he relies on them.
Libyan military modernization
- Thread starter radiosilence
- Start date
Please, can you elaborate, it would help the debate...Lybia will not have a proper military if he relies on them.
Jane's Defence Weekly - 23/11/2006
Paris striking whilst the iron is hot, as I have said, I seriously doubt this will be the last Franco-Libyan deal over the coming months. The possibility of Rafale and Tiger in Libyan service is interesting given the similar offers made to Algeria.
France to refurbish Libyan Mirages
JAC Lewis JDW Correspondent
Paris
France is to refurbish 12 Mirage F1 air-defence/multirole fighter aircraft acquired by the Libyan Arab Republic Air Force in the late 1970s under its first arms transaction with Libya since Europe lifted an arms embargo on Tripoli in 2004.
Under the EUR140 million (USD180 million) contract signed on 8 November but revealed a week later, French company Astrac, a joint venture between Thales and Safran, will renovate the aircraft under a 'back to flight' programme expected to take four years to complete.
French officials stressed the deal would not involve a full upgrade of the 12 aircraft. In all, Libya has 25 Mirage F1s but only 12 were deemed capable of being made flight-worthy. "Primarily, the work will involve fitting new engines to the aircraft and ensuring the original flight electronics and air frames are in good working order," said a spokesperson for Safran. Armaments are not thought to be involved in the package.
The Astrac joint venture landed a EUR350 million contract from Morocco in 2005 to upgrade the country's fleet of 27 Mirage F1 fighters and equip them with MICA missiles.
Sofema, a French aviation consultancy previously linked to the defence ministry, is prime contractor for the Libyan project.
France is making a major push to sell top-of-the-line goods to Libya in a bid to capture 20 per cent of that country's military market. Industry sources said Paris had restricted itself to merely refurbishing the Libyan Mirage F1s as part of a policy that consists of putting a halt to full upgrades of old French fighters for foreign air forces in the hope of encouraging them to buy Dassault Aviation's new Rafale multirole fighter.
French Defence Minister Michèle Alliot-Marie confirmed in late October that France was aiming to sell the Rafale and the AS 665 Tiger multirole combat helicopter built by Eurocopter to Libya.
Paris striking whilst the iron is hot, as I have said, I seriously doubt this will be the last Franco-Libyan deal over the coming months. The possibility of Rafale and Tiger in Libyan service is interesting given the similar offers made to Algeria.
contedicavour
New Member
Very interesting - a dozen F1s with Mica fire and forget missiles are already a start. If only a dozen F1s are left, I guess all of the Mirage IIIs are non operational since even older.Jane's Defence Weekly - 23/11/2006
Paris striking whilst the iron is hot, as I have said, I seriously doubt this will be the last Franco-Libyan deal over the coming months. The possibility of Rafale and Tiger in Libyan service is interesting given the similar offers made to Algeria.
I'd expect similar deals on the MIG23 Floggers, SU24 Fencers and potentially on the MIG25 Foxbats.
Then it will be a big battle between Rafale and SU30 for orders...
cheers
The 40 or so Mirage IIIs & all spares held were sold to Pakistan - last year? A few of the best airframes may be rebuilt & accepted into service. Most are being broken down. None were flyable when delivered, but Pakistan now has a very good stock of Mirage III spares.Very interesting - a dozen F1s with Mica fire and forget missiles are already a start. If only a dozen F1s are left, I guess all of the Mirage IIIs are non operational since even older.
I'd expect similar deals on the MIG23 Floggers, SU24 Fencers and potentially on the MIG25 Foxbats.
Then it will be a big battle between Rafale and SU30 for orders...
cheers
If Libya applied the Moroccan upgrade to its surviving Mirage F.1s - and maybe topped them up with a few more from France, or maybe Greece (I think they still have some stored), they'd have some reasonably effective aircraft at a modest price. Morocco is getting the RC400 radar, some other new avionics, a thorough overhaul, & the new weapons which the Mirages are being made capable of using, i.e. Mica, & AASM, IIRC.
If he relies on who the French?Lybia will not have a proper military if he relies on them.
This really does have a chance of panning out, Libya, Britain and the U.S are trying really hard to formalize a good relationship, Ghaddiffi has become very on edge as of late along with other African countries due to the Islamic radical organizations that have been sprouting up. He is actually reaching out to the U.S. BAE just may have a deal after all.BAE Systems have been in Libya now for the past several years, mainly concentrating on work related to getting the civilian aviation infrastructure their back in business.
However, there are two rumours that have been circulating for a while now: One, that Hawk 100 series LIFT has been offered to the Libyan Air Force. The second rumour allegedly involves the transfer of Saudi's second-hand Tornado ADV interceptors, 19 of which are being handed back to BAE as part of the Typhoon deal.
Hawk is possible, though I think Italian tranier manufacturers are much better placed for an order. As for the second rumour - I'll believe that when I see it!
RSAF's lone Tornado ADV unit, 29 Squadron, has very recently stood down and thus the ADV's are now being transited back to BAE and available. As part of the deal, a sizable stock of Sky Flash AAMs are also being returned, Saudi originally having bought some 500 missiles.
As I say though, Hawk maybe but I would be surprised if ADV went to Libya. But you never know!
As I say though, Hawk maybe but I would be surprised if ADV went to Libya. But you never know!
contedicavour
New Member
Sky Flash equipped Tornado ADV would be less dangerous for us than Flankers with R77 or Rafale with Mica missiles.... so I do hope the deal may work out after all.RSAF's lone Tornado ADV unit, 29 Squadron, has very recently stood down and thus the ADV's are now being transited back to BAE and available. As part of the deal, a sizable stock of Sky Flash AAMs are also being returned, Saudi originally having bought some 500 missiles.
As I say though, Hawk maybe but I would be surprised if ADV went to Libya. But you never know!
cheers
contedicavour
New Member
Don't forget that they have often used well paid mercenaries (from countries such as Ukraine and Moldova) to pilot their planes. There are more than enough good Mirage and Mig pilots around in the world ...Let's no get ahead of ourselves: The Libyan Air Force will have trouble enough operating Mirage F1.
Same for technicians needed to keep the jets operational
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I would agree that Flanker is a far more likely option.
As I say, I will wait and see if Tornado ADV ever ends up in Libyan hands, but the rumour has been knocking around here in Riyadh for some time. Personally, I can only see them being used as a 'sweetner' - part of a larger deal for other equipment like Hawk or C4I modernisation.
Lets face it, BAE are going to be hard pressed to find any new customers for these ADVs, despite the fact that most of them are in pretty decent condition.
As I say, I will wait and see if Tornado ADV ever ends up in Libyan hands, but the rumour has been knocking around here in Riyadh for some time. Personally, I can only see them being used as a 'sweetner' - part of a larger deal for other equipment like Hawk or C4I modernisation.
Lets face it, BAE are going to be hard pressed to find any new customers for these ADVs, despite the fact that most of them are in pretty decent condition.
I think everyone will be in for a surprise when they have their Arms expo.I would agree that Flanker is a far more likely option.
As I say, I will wait and see if Tornado ADV ever ends up in Libyan hands, but the rumour has been knocking around here in Riyadh for some time. Personally, I can only see them being used as a 'sweetner' - part of a larger deal for other equipment like Hawk or C4I modernisation.
Lets face it, BAE are going to be hard pressed to find any new customers for these ADVs, despite the fact that most of them are in pretty decent condition.
With the Mirage F.1 modernisation as an interim measure.I would agree that Flanker is a far more likely option.
...
Lets face it, BAE are going to be hard pressed to find any new customers for these ADVs, despite the fact that most of them are in pretty decent condition.
Does the RAF need any Tornado spares?
contedicavour
New Member
I thought that the RAF had retired several Tornado ADV (including those that had been lent to the Italian air force) and that they were mothballed and/or source of ample spare parts.With the Mirage F.1 modernisation as an interim measure.
Does the RAF need any Tornado spares?
Besides, a lot of spare parts are in common with Tornado IDS and between the UK, Germany and Italy... and there are a lot of mothballed IDS as well in all 3 countries.
cheers
contedicavour
New Member
The Tornado ADV is what comes closest (among fighterbombers) to a long-range patroller. Though I would even consider Tornado IDS with naval strike role for operations out of isolated islands...I've for 20 years seen a Danish need for these - operating from the Fair Isles; but I guess it will remain a pipe dream.
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