Libyan military modernization
- Thread starter radiosilence
- Start date
From http://www.armedforces.co.uk/raf/listings/l0001.html
1435 Flight 4 x Tornado F3 RAF Mount Pleasant
radiosilence
jints
Swerve:
Seen from a Nato standpoint: The only sensible thing would be a Danish Squadron with flights in Kangerlussuaq, Narsarsuaq, Keflavik, the Fairisles and perhaps Tromsø would be what was needed for the entire North Atlantic supported by a long range SAR C-130J.
A maintainence agreement with the RAF (Lossiemouth) carrying AMRAAMs, Harpoons and buddy refueling gear coordinating with the Thetis class.
It should be politically possible, as we might be accepted by the Greenlandic Home Rule (at a price), the Fairisle Home Rule (at a price), the Icelandic Government - and after return rights to the Norwegean P-3.
The Saudi Tornadoes should be the about right number.
But this will never happen. The only chance would be if someone with connections with the USNavy can convince a sufficient number of "broad rings and scrambled eggs" that it is their idea - and funding could be found.
But as I said: I don't believe in it. The question is how great the need really is - as it would be expensive operating goldbricks like Tornadoes under these conditions - and seen in relation to the potential threat from the White Sea Fleet.
Seen from a Nato standpoint: The only sensible thing would be a Danish Squadron with flights in Kangerlussuaq, Narsarsuaq, Keflavik, the Fairisles and perhaps Tromsø would be what was needed for the entire North Atlantic supported by a long range SAR C-130J.
A maintainence agreement with the RAF (Lossiemouth) carrying AMRAAMs, Harpoons and buddy refueling gear coordinating with the Thetis class.
It should be politically possible, as we might be accepted by the Greenlandic Home Rule (at a price), the Fairisle Home Rule (at a price), the Icelandic Government - and after return rights to the Norwegean P-3.
The Saudi Tornadoes should be the about right number.
But this will never happen. The only chance would be if someone with connections with the USNavy can convince a sufficient number of "broad rings and scrambled eggs" that it is their idea - and funding could be found.
But as I said: I don't believe in it. The question is how great the need really is - as it would be expensive operating goldbricks like Tornadoes under these conditions - and seen in relation to the potential threat from the White Sea Fleet.
radiosilence
jints
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #46
I highly doubt any country including Russia will be able to sell Iran offensive weapons in this current enviroment with sanctions possible over their nuclear program.Lewinski said:
I highly doubt Russia gives a crap about this environment. If they are willing to enable Iran with the ability to enrich uranium I doubt they have a problem selling weapons. They will sell anything to anybody willing to pay. They just concluded an Su-25 tank buster sale, that isn't exactly a "defensive" weapon.
Su-25 purchase
Thanks for your input radiosilence.
I don't think Russia really cares about what the West thinks about their dealings and this will lead them to sell whatever they can to get money
:I agree that Russia will do what is in it's financial interest. Aside from oil/natural gas products, weapons are about the only thing Russia is able to export. They will not be concerned with sanctions or any other restrictions.Thanks for your input radiosilence.
I don't think Russia really cares about what the West thinks about their dealings and this will lead them to sell whatever they can to get money
China and France (to a lesser extent) have similar views on arms exports.
Bottom line is that Iran will get what it needs one way or the other. Might as well be Russia (in their view).
radiosilence
jints
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #50
If the Iranians are sanctioned in the security council for their nuclear program, i can't see anyone selling them big ticket items like the su-32/34.
Last edited:
Russia isn't going to saction Iran and they have veto power so it won't happen. The big ticket items are the Russian defense industries bread and butter. The only thing is Iran doesn't want it. They want to be "self sufficient" Go figure... talk about :nutkick ing yourself
http://www.mosnews.com/news/2006/10/23/rusnosanctions.shtml
I think the basic issue is that the religious dictators in Iran do not want a strong military - they might get ideas as to the proper management of the country.
On the other hand they maintain an agressive stance generally. Therefore nuclear weapons are a great solution: They are next to useless in a coup.
On the other hand they maintain an agressive stance generally. Therefore nuclear weapons are a great solution: They are next to useless in a coup.
We quite agree!
During WW1 Denmark could - with great difficulty - provide a full line defence semi independently.
In WW2 Britain could as well - just - and with huge sacrifices.
Today - to be honest - only the USA can. Europe might - if they ever get their act together. Russia and China remain doubtfull.
During WW1 Denmark could - with great difficulty - provide a full line defence semi independently.
In WW2 Britain could as well - just - and with huge sacrifices.
Today - to be honest - only the USA can. Europe might - if they ever get their act together. Russia and China remain doubtfull.
You make a vaild point. Most of the latest Iranian orders have been diverted to the Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IIRGC) and not put into service with the regular army, which for various reasons has been gradually loosing more and more influence within the rulling element for the last ten years.
I do believe for example, that the Su-25s will be put IIRG service and that ground and naval IIRGC capabilities are also being expanded.
contedicavour
New Member
Who mans the Tor SAMs that have been delivered to Iran ?
Anyway the only weaponry I'd fear is the Russian S300 (V or P) SAMs.
Before going back to topic, a question for you who are in Saudi : do you know if the LCS (export version with enhanced AAW) is now being preferred to Lafayette by the Saudi navy to replace the old corvettes/FFGs of the Al Badr class ?
Back to topic now... does anybody know how many of the Libyan MIG25 (in theory there are still 50 approx) are still flyable ? Their missiles are still the obsolete AA6 Acrid ?
cheers
With regards Iran and the 9K331 Tor, I am not 100% certain, however I believe they are operated by the Regular Army.
The IIRGC when it comes to SAMs, is pretty limited to MANPAD systems like the SA-14, SA-18 and SA-7 (plus a host of Indigenous and Chinese SA-7 copies). They do also have a large number of light AAA, like the 23mm ZU-23-2 which are often mounted on 4x4 light vehicles.
Saudi - Jane's Navy International reported very recently that the US and Saudi are currently having "navy-to-navy" negotiations regarding LCS. Not sure on numbers, but with Lockheed's Freedom-Class hulls being quoted at 200 Million US$ per hull, I think an initial order of between 3 and 6 is probable.
A large order for FREMM frigates is also supposed to be under negotiation with DCN. Local sources here have quoted numbers of between 15 and 20. But I seriously doubt double-figure orders, as we both know, the RSNF has enough problems operating the fleet size already.
Libyan Foxbats, 60xMig-25PD were originally delivered to the Libyan Arab Air Force with the first units becoming operational in 1980 operating in the air defence role.
Jane's World Air Forces estimates some 35xMig-25PD remain in service today with three squadrons of the 3rd Combat Regiment at Okba Ibn Nafa. Libya did also receive considerable numbers of AA-6 Acrid AAMs.
At Ghurdabiyah, an unidentified squadron operates no more than 5xMig-25R in the reconnaissance mission. These aircraft actually arrived several years before the air defence variants and have seen considerable use and most may no longer be operational. A handful of Mig-25RU two-seaters are also believed to be still in use for conversion training.
The IIRGC when it comes to SAMs, is pretty limited to MANPAD systems like the SA-14, SA-18 and SA-7 (plus a host of Indigenous and Chinese SA-7 copies). They do also have a large number of light AAA, like the 23mm ZU-23-2 which are often mounted on 4x4 light vehicles.
Saudi - Jane's Navy International reported very recently that the US and Saudi are currently having "navy-to-navy" negotiations regarding LCS. Not sure on numbers, but with Lockheed's Freedom-Class hulls being quoted at 200 Million US$ per hull, I think an initial order of between 3 and 6 is probable.
A large order for FREMM frigates is also supposed to be under negotiation with DCN. Local sources here have quoted numbers of between 15 and 20. But I seriously doubt double-figure orders, as we both know, the RSNF has enough problems operating the fleet size already.
Libyan Foxbats, 60xMig-25PD were originally delivered to the Libyan Arab Air Force with the first units becoming operational in 1980 operating in the air defence role.
Jane's World Air Forces estimates some 35xMig-25PD remain in service today with three squadrons of the 3rd Combat Regiment at Okba Ibn Nafa. Libya did also receive considerable numbers of AA-6 Acrid AAMs.
At Ghurdabiyah, an unidentified squadron operates no more than 5xMig-25R in the reconnaissance mission. These aircraft actually arrived several years before the air defence variants and have seen considerable use and most may no longer be operational. A handful of Mig-25RU two-seaters are also believed to be still in use for conversion training.
contedicavour
New Member
Thanks a lot Izzy.
So it is plausible that Saudi could order a mix of LCS and FREMM, potentially for replacement of Al Badr corvettes and of the Madinah French frigates. Interesting. That way there wouldn't be too much of a need for enhanced AAW aboard the LCS, since the Badr they are replacing never had significant AAW...
On the Libyan Foxbats, if all they have is Acrid, a semi-active with max 40km range, I guess we can consider them obsolete. Even with their amazing speed they would stand no chance against an AIM120-equipped Typhoon.
cheers
So it is plausible that Saudi could order a mix of LCS and FREMM, potentially for replacement of Al Badr corvettes and of the Madinah French frigates. Interesting. That way there wouldn't be too much of a need for enhanced AAW aboard the LCS, since the Badr they are replacing never had significant AAW...
On the Libyan Foxbats, if all they have is Acrid, a semi-active with max 40km range, I guess we can consider them obsolete. Even with their amazing speed they would stand no chance against an AIM120-equipped Typhoon.
cheers