Indonesian Aero News

[Ananda]

Rather I have zero faith in the Indonesian government's ability to maintain OPSEC of something that highly classified.

Well US already agree for F-15EX, and from my understanding on F-35 (including what I learned in this forum), what makes F-35 highly classified is the operational network environment that integrate toward US ones. So if green light also given for F-35 partly toward LM Lobby, then most likely US will give bespoke electronics set.

It is not without precedence, US basically sold India P-8I with bespoke sensors and electronics set that have some difference from US and Nato/Allies sets. For one thing it is what India wants for their independent network, also that's mean India P-8 also not integrate toward US environment security. The Frenchie Salesman call it 'monkey' version, and for me that's BS. India wants electronics and sensors that meet their own network requirements, especially something that's give them independent control.

For that US/LM potentially can provide also bespoke electronics and sensors setup that also meet Indonesia own network environment and capacity. I suspect similar thing also being prepared by Boeing for their F-15ID offer. Something that'll meet Indonesia environment while not jeopardizing US networks.

Note:
I ridicule Frenchie Salesman from time to time, not because he's a Salesman. However because he is trying so hard to shown himself as neutral defense 'expert' in public. That's hypocrite that I deplored. Still I wish him luck on getting those US order switches to French. Considering Indonesia already invest big time with Rafale, personally it is better then add more Rafale then invest on F-15EX or F-35 environment. At this time around that possibility I do sense still possible.

 

[Ananda]

Indonesian Aero News

https://x.com/Kemhan_RI/status/1810823267923701920?s=19 https://www.facebook.com/share/v/PDotf72ePdDqvPiQ/?mibextid=SphRi8 Video from Indonesian MinDef of Su-30MK2 doing recent exercise in East Java. Including in the exercise aerial refueling between Flankers and KC-130B. Personally I just...

www.defencetalk.com

PTDI Looks To CN-235 Conversion For Future Projects | Aviation Week Network

PT Dirgantara Indonesia (PTDI) sees itself focusing on special-mission conversions for its CN-235 turboprop transport aircraft, as it looks to keep it relevant in the international market.

aviationweek.com

More clarity on previous information on DI and Havelsan co-op on AEW. It is project on using CN-235 as platform with Havelsan tech. While DI also in talk with Scytalys on developing ASW version on CN-235 platform.

Now DI themselves already have work with Thales before for MPA version, seems they want to further developing that with ASW capabilities. Intersting choice for Turkiye partner on AEW project, while Greece partner on ASW project.

 

[ChestnutTree]

I ridicule Frenchie Salesman from time to time, not because he's a Salesman. However because he is trying so hard to shown himself as neutral defense 'expert' in public. That's hypocrite that I deplored. Still I wish him luck on getting those US order switches to French.

Oh I am aware. I had the opportunity to engage with him once. He does seem to understand the bigger picture of geopolitics with regards to the Indo-Pacific, but rather it's because he gets a lot of kickbacks from the French is why he's like that. He knows that at the end of the day US capabilities in their equipment most often than not far exceeds what the French can do.

I have another colleague who works for CSIS who's the same way. Give them a ride on an Armee de l'Air MRTT/A400, in depth tour of a French Navy ship, maybe a chance to work with their counterparts in France; they would eventually start preaching 'Marchon, Marchon!' from the rooftops. The French are happy to accommodate these types of Academics in Indonesia since they know that they have some influence with publicity and the procurement chain, and it costs them literally nothing in the grand scheme of things. It's the same way with Connie Bakrie and the Chinese.

The US on the other hand are using traditional advertising, but it doesn't work as well if the only people they advertise to are the policymakers who often defer to the people I mentioned above.

 

[koxinga]

More clarity on previous information on DI and Havelsan co-op on AEW. It is project on using CN-235 as platform with Havelsan tech.

While the CN-235 is a PT DI product and would lower the cost, I guess one question is why not go for a bigger jet platform, like Global Express or ERJ145? It will provide more flexibility with better weight margins, faster time to station etc or even the more modern C-295 if want to keep in the same turboprop family?

 

[Ananda]

guess one question is why not go for a bigger jet platform, like Global Express or ERJ145?

Indonesian Aerospace chief looks to N219, offset opportunities

Indonesian Aerospace is focused on boosting sales of its N219 twin-turboprop, as it seeks to grow its capabilities through military offset work.

www.flightglobal.com

prospective Indonesian Aerospace/Havelsan grouping were to win a contract for an AEW&C aircraft, Amperiawan envisages his company serving as the prime contractor. Asked about the aircraft type Indonesian Aerospace would use for any AEW&C offering, Amperiawan indicates that this will depend on government requirements.

The article is taken by Flight Global correspondence which interviewing DI CEO. The interview conducted in Bali Airshow talk on overall DI present and future projects. On AEW&C, DI's CEO acknowledge that the final platform not yet decide. However the aviationweek article shown DI try to champion it's own platform.

Thus base on both article eventough they champion their own Turboprop platform, they are open to potential other platforms. Means they are open work as instalators of AEW&C systems they are working with Havelsan using whatever platforms that being choose.

 

[Ananda]

Menhan: Lima RUU kerja sama bidang pertahanan penting bagi Indonesia

Menteri Pertahanan (Menhan) RI Prabowo Subianto mengatakan bahwa lima Rancangan Undang-Undang (RUU) terkait kerja sama bidang pertahanan dengan sejumlah ...

m.antaranews.com

He does seem to understand the bigger picture of geopolitics with regards to the Indo-Pacific, but rather it's because he gets a lot of kickbacks from the French is why he's like that. He knows that at the end of the day US capabilities in their equipment most often than not far exceeds what the French can do

Thank you for personal insight of him, as I said before, don't have any problem with defense insiders, as long as they come clean to the public media on their real intentions. Just can't help to see this guys nothing more then opportunist seekers that wiling to misguide public audiences behind 'neutral' analysts scheme.

Anyway, Frenchie already put in legislation as part of strategic partner for defense. The five countries that's already been legitimate by Parliament are India, French, Cambodia, UAE and Brazil. This part basically one step ahead of G to G agreement. So his possition as Frenchie sales agent should supposedly more secures on the projects availability.

 

[koxinga]

The article is taken by Flight Global correspondence which interviewing DI CEO. The interview conducted in Bali Airshow talk on overall DI present and future projects. On AEW&C, DI's CEO acknowledge that the final platform not yet decide. However the aviationweek article shown DI try to champion it's own platform.

Thus base on both article eventough they champion their own Turboprop platform, they are open to potential other platforms. Means they are open work as instalators of AEW&C systems they are working with Havelsan using whatever platforms that being choose.

Havelsan is working on the HAVA SOJ standoff jammer, based on the Global 6000 platform. Integrating with a platform that they know will lower the risks and time.

 

[swerve]

Indonesian Aero News

https://x.com/Kemhan_RI/status/1810823267923701920?s=19 https://www.facebook.com/share/v/PDotf72ePdDqvPiQ/?mibextid=SphRi8 Video from Indonesian MinDef of Su-30MK2 doing recent exercise in East Java. Including in the exercise aerial refueling between Flankers and KC-130B. Personally I just...

www.defencetalk.com

PTDI Looks To CN-235 Conversion For Future Projects | Aviation Week Network

PT Dirgantara Indonesia (PTDI) sees itself focusing on special-mission conversions for its CN-235 turboprop transport aircraft, as it looks to keep it relevant in the international market.

aviationweek.com

More clarity on previous information on DI and Havelsan co-op on AEW. It is project on using CN-235 as platform with Havelsan tech.

CN-235 is small & low performance for AEW. Its service ceiling is low, for example, limiting the range of any radar against low-level targets. The Saab 340 is even smaller (Erieye - but all other Erieye platforms are bigger), but CN-235 would be the smallest, slowest land-based AEW aircraft in production.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Here we see the latest version of the NC212i with the new MTV-27 propellors. Is this one of the 9 ordered NC212i for TNI-AU?
Kerjasama Kemenhan dan PT Dirgantara Indonesia Memajukan Industri Pertahanan Dalam Negeri | tvOne - YouTube

And here the latest video from LEN about the new DID 3.11 UAV.
UAV DID 3.11 dirancang untuk melakukan berbagai misi ! (youtube.com)

 

[Ananda]

Dassault Aviation pushes Indonesia to acquire 100 Rafale jets

bulgarianmilitary.com

Rumours that circulating from Frenchie Salesman then taking up by one (in my opinion less reputable) local defense enthusiasts sites, then now going International through this Bulgarian sites. Shown power of Rumours .

The rumours recently amplified after media gathering that DI did to shown their plan PT DI tekankan RI perlu kuasai teknologi kunci dalam pengadaan Rafale. Including in their negotiations with Dasault to be part Rafale supply chains.

Rafale is not the only fighter project that DI has ambition to be part of PT DI bidik perakitan akhir, MRO, uji terbang dan sertifikasi KF-21. On previous occasion DI CEO also stated their negotiations with KAI to get more involvement for final assembly and part of supply chains. Off course he acknowledged it is much depends on final G to G negotiations on the Indonesia involvement within project.

Still this Rumours of Dasault aiming more order from Indonesia is not without base. Frenchie Salesman push this by saying if Indonesia want to have more part on Tech Transfer and supply chains, more then 42 order needed. This then evolve toward speculation rumours on more Rafale order.

More Rafale order (at least from money trails) can only happen if other projects being sacrifice. That's means:

1. KF-21 48 assembly order being drop, and Indonesia cocompletely pull out from the projects, or
2. Drop US order, means drop Boeing F-15ID or even LM potential F-16V or even F-35.

That will free up budget for more Rafale. In one hand TNI-AU will increase their investment on one type (which is good logistically), however could be problematic on Geopolitics relationship. Indonesia must maintain relationship with Global Superpower which also important export market, while in same time maintain industrial co-op with one of important trading and investment partner.

Both ROK and US relationship are important, while in same time French status as strategic defense partner already being upgrade by Indonesian Parliament. As I have put before, some political factions in Indonesia increasingly see French and Turkiye as preferable middle ground defense strategic partner.

In the end this can also shown chaotic defense procurement nature in Indonesia can later on still potentially sorted out to be more logical and simplified. Both being push by political necessity and budget reality.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Until now the US doesn't show seriously the willingness to sell the F-35 to Indonesia because it is too advanced. In stead of the F-35, they are willing to offer the F-15EX (or the slightly downgraded F-15ID).
In my opinion Indonesia should absolutely drop the acquisition of the 36 F-15EX/ID with the pricetag of $13,9 billion. I know the price is not just dependant of the per piece price, and includes the whole package of engines, training, spareparts and other equipment, but compared to Romania's procurement of 32 F-35A with a value of $7,2 billion for example, Indonesia's F-15 package is way too overpriced. It is almost like Indonesia has to pay more to subsidize other countries, so they can get better offers.

And i can not believe the price difference is justified because "the F-15EX is twice as good as the F-35A".

If Indonesia has to buy american stuff, then Indonesia should order more of the AH-64E, C-130J-30, F-16 or something else we need.

The last decades IPTN produce aircrafts very slowly, 6-10 fixed wing aircrafts each year is absolutely the maximum limit. I really doubt if they can handle licence manufacturing of KF-21 and its parts in a decent tempo, let alone if they also plan to do the same with Rafales.

 

[Ananda]

I really doubt if they can handle licence manufacturing of KF-21 and its parts in a decent tempo, let alone if they also plan to do the same with Rafales.

I quote this because that's the bottom line that many Indonesian media and enthusiasts seems miss. DI very doubtful can involved with more than one Fighter program, either on Local Assembly or Offset programs as part in the production supply chains.

In my previous post #3,121, I say that despite my misgivings to Frenchie Salesman, I wish him luck to able to 'steal' US order. Cause I also see whether F-15ID or F-35, if combine with Rafale will not be maintainable properly by TNI-AU under current operational budget environment.

I do hope number Rafale to be increase in the expense of either US order. Not because Capabilities of Rafale better, or Geopolitics better relied on French as defense industry partner, but simply because MinDef already invest with Rafale.

However seeing the DI talk on hoping to involve with both KF-21 and Rafale supply chains, just got feeling it will be KF-21 that's going to be sacrifices. Off course I could be wrong, it can be F-15ID that's going to be sacrifices or all three still in order. All option still possible

Still considering Prabowo's already talk in parliament on the need to fast track defense build up. We also already see TNI-AL now also trying to find additional Frigate and Submarines from non domestic sources fast. Just seems to me they will in the end choose to, whoever can provide faster delivery and still involved local industry.

For that, I got sense KF-21 that will be sacrifices. Perhaps that's the reason why Indonesia keep delaying payment on participation due. I might be wrong, because this just guessing base on progress. However even some in Korean forums and media already speculate Indonesia will drop KF-21 for involvement with Rafale program and supply chain.

 

[Ananda]

Havelsan is working on the HAVA SOJ standoff jammer, based on the Global 6000 platform. Integrating with a platform that they know will lower the risks and time.

Considering that TNI-AL seems on the traction to get PAL Aerospace P-6 MPA (at least that's the MPA type they are shown to media during one of their Chief presentations), Global 6000-6500 logically should be the preference platform for AEW&C of TNI-AU.

but CN-235 would be the smallest, slowest land-based AEW aircraft in production.

CN-235 is DI preference, but then again they also admitting MinDef has no shown final decisions on platform yet. If they (MinDef) got better budget allocations, I'm sure they want more capable platform then DI's Turboprop.

Then again present TNI-AL and TNI-AU MPA are CN-235 base. It is again back to budget allocations. I sense it will be back on type of Fighters, Frigates, and Submarines programs being approved in next administration term. CN-235 is small and slow, but also cheap and economical platform to maintain.

Add:
Just my speculation, but considering Frenchie traction as defense partnership, there are also one other platform that can come from Dasault lobby:

The Family of Special-Mission Falcons

Falcons are not just used to carry passengers: their performance, flexibility and robustness allow them to cover a wide range of military and public service missions.

www.dassault-aviation.com

MinDef already choose Falcon 8X for VIP Government Ministrial transport. Thus TNI-AU as operator already begin building supporting logistics for Falcon 8X. Now Dasault already shown Falcon 8X as Maritime Patrol, how difficult it will be to use it as AEW&C?

 

[koxinga]

Then again present TNI-AL and TNI-AU MPA are CN-235 base. It is again back to budget allocations. I sense it will be back on type of Fighters, Frigates, and Submarines programs being approved in next administration term. CN-235 is small and slow, but also cheap and economical platform to maintain.

Different missions, different needs. If it is just about cheap and easy to maintain, TNI-AU can live with more Super Tucanos instead of Rafales since they are cheap and easy to maintain too.

The MPA mission is able to work with a platform like the CN-235 because the range and endurance/loitoring time is sufficient for a littoral setting and no need high altitudes since sensors are targeted at surface / sub surface targets.

Edit:
I would argue that it would be penny-wise, pound-foolish to invest in a powerful new sensor for the AWEC and then strap it on an inferior platform presumbly to satisfy some weird desire to use a national product.

 

[Ananda]

would argue that it would be penny-wise, pound-foolish to invest in a powerful new sensor for the AWEC and then strap it on an inferior platform presumbly to satisfy some weird desire to use a national product.

No argument from me on that. However my understanding DI offer and lobby on using CN-235 base on previous TNI-AU studies on AEW&C.They put priority:
1. Airliner base platform (E7),
2. BJ base platform (Bombardier/Embrear),
3. Turboprop base platform (Saab 340),

Thus DI in my understanding put their platform as alternative one in case third priority being choose. Third priority being choose again base on budget allocation availability for AEW&C program.

My understanding seems potentially the #2 priority (Business Jet platform base) that got traction at this moment. Then again #3 can happen and that's where DI lobby for CN-235 in case turboprop base platform being choose.

If #2 being choose as my post before, I'm wondering how big potential for Dasault cut Bombardier as prefer platform.

 

[swerve]

...
Add:
Just my speculation, but considering Frenchie traction as defense partnership, there are also one other platform that can come from Dasault lobby:

The Family of Special-Mission Falcons

Falcons are not just used to carry passengers: their performance, flexibility and robustness allow them to cover a wide range of military and public service missions.

www.dassault-aviation.com

MinDef already choose Falcon 8X for VIP Government Ministrial transport. Thus TNI-AU as operator already begin building supporting logistics for Falcon 8X. Now Dasault already shown Falcon 8X as Maritime Patrol, how difficult it will be to use it as AEW&C?

The only potential problem I see with the Falcon 8X is that it's a trijet. I don't know if that would be difficult to combine with a dorsal AEW antenna, but if it would be . . .

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

The only potential problem I see with the Falcon 8X is that it's a trijet. I don't know if that would be difficult to combine with a dorsal AEW antenna, but if it would be . . .

Yes, we don't know if the airstream will be disturbed by the dorsal AEW-antenna. The Falcon 2000 is slightly shorter and has less range, but still it has a similar service ceiling and it will be good enough to act as an MPA or AEW-aircraft.

A NASAMS-launchers seems to attend at the Hari ABRI parade tomorrow ...

x.com

x.com

...together with some mobile SHORAD systems.

x.com

x.com

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

At last, an Indonesian high quality video with 100% awesome aircrafts. Normally Indonesian videos shows more officials and speeches than military hardware. Recently a video about the Pindad Maung was uploaded, but literally 99% of the time you only see important-people-being-important and the Maung vehicle only appears accidently for some seconds.

Bonus: SkU 11 in action!

 

[Ananda]

One by one TNI-AU B's being withdrawn. This one is A-1303 which belong to first batch of C-130B that Kennedy approve after Soekarno ask him. This is also US answer to Khruschev giving Soekarno AN-12. Basically this is real Cold War era diplomacy result.

C-130B already six decade in operational TNI-AU, outlive AN-12 and even C-160 (eventough Transall never officially work for TNI operation). It is having been getting several modifications throughout live time.

However C-130H will still soldier on,

Put from Frenchie Salesman video and Indonesian MinDef video. 8 C-130H will be modified in GMF Aero while 12 others will be modified in DI. However latest info, it is said the contract with DI only for 9 instead 12 as previously talk.

PT. Dirgantara Indonesia (Persero)

www.indonesian-aerospace.com

All modifications will include replacing center wingbox and Cockpit and replacing old analog to digital ones.

Thus 2 sq of C-130H (I believe Sq 32 in Malang AB and Sq 33 in Makasar AB) will continue operate C-130H. Indonesian C-130H come from procurement in 80's of C-130H, and L100-30 that's being converted to H standard, plus H ex RAAF.

While Sq 31 in Jakarta Halim AB seems going to focus on J variance. There's talk on getting J's ex RAF, but I got conflicting info that Airbus lobby (including Frenchie Salesman) manage to lobby the budget to be instead to get additional A400M that's still in option. Thus potentially 31st Sq will operate mix C-130J and A400M. Well it is still rumours anyway, off course LM lobby will try to get more J's contract whether new or used ones.

 

[Ananda]

This is graphic from TNI-AU presentation in their Instagram. This is talking on upgrade program for F-16 C/D ID from peace bima sena 2. Unlike the F-16 AM/BM that being upgraded with LM as prime contractor, the upgrade program for C/D will use Turkey as supplier. Seems they are going to participate on Turkish Ozgur upgrade package.