Indonesian Aero News

[Ananda]

This picture from Boeing team congratulate TNI Birthday today, create some commotion within Indonesia online defense enthusiasts community. Many of them see it as sign US already give Boeing go ahead to offer F-15EX package.

For me, always back to what I'm saying all along. "Follow the money trails". Follow how much foreign credit line allowed by 'finance' people for this term. Again if they (MinDef) going with this F-15EX (or whatever version US allowing to sell to Indonesia), then forgot about Rafale or F-16V or even put 'question' on Indonesia continue participation in Korean KF-21/KFX-IFX program.

This simply due to available foreign line being allowed to MinDef, and other stuff that TNI-AU wants. How to afford MRTT, AEW, ISTAR, and GCI platform if they (as many Indonesian enthusiasts fantasies) really want 36 F-15EX and 36 Rafale ? Even 24+24 F-15EX and Rafale is already beyond available line limit.

Follow the money trail, that will avoid too much fantasy speculations.

Note:
Don't speculate that next administration will continue put money for more Fighters procurement program, or keep Indonesian participation with KFX/IFX. We don't know whose will come out as next President. We already see what happens toward Indonesian long term commitment when there's changes in Administration. Face it, our Political establishment only think in short term. So think what can be available in this term only. Next term, only God knows what will happen.

 

[Ananda]

https://www.kemhan.go.id/strahan/2021/10/06/indonesia-france-defence-dialogue-ifdd-ke-8.html

Put it in here, as seems they are still talking on 'Rafale' . Wow, unless there are still other credit line that being allocated, how they're going to finance this Rafale and F-15E dream within the limit of credit line that being set by 'finance' people? Well it's beyond me .

Perhaps the rumours that I got about a year ago from 'finance' people could be what they're aiming. The rumours was the credit line limit that being prepared for Su-35 (USD 1.1 bio) will be use for US Fighters, while the previous plan for 32 F-16V credit line (calculate around USD 2.5 - 3.0 bio) will be use for French fighters instead. With that amount perhaps they can get 8 F-15E and 24 Rafale.

Off course this means life time sustainment cost not calculate on initial deal, but hey when Indonesian MinDef ever done that ? So the Armament will be calculate on next term, so the life time sustainment and maintenance support will be calculate on next term budget. 'Who cares' that next President problem.

But at least there'll be some budget left for C-130J, couple MRTT, couple AEW, and perhaps 2-4 new GCI radar. At least Politically it's catching. We can get F-15E and Rafale for deterrent factor. Who cares if those fighters will be very costly to maintain, there're still old F-16 and Hawk 200 doing patrol work. Perhaps they can bargain also with US to get more refurbished F-16.

After all this is Indonesian Defense procurement. Even during TNI birthday yesterday, TNI-AD chief being heard talk to President that even they have 56 Brazilian Astros MLRS but only 88 rocket left. Hey who cares, as long as in paper TNI has shiny armament. Political Image of having expensive procurement is more important then operational sustainment, or is it ??

Well enough of my ranting, just hope in the end those 'finance' people still can keep 'logic' in the ground on defense procurement Project.

 

[Ananda]

I'm trying to get into the mind of 'finance' people, when facing with MinDef demand of 'flashy' new toys. At the same time has to maintain 'sanity' against Political 'desire' to look flashy and glorious. One of the Chief 'finance' people already told in the media, that USD 20+ bio is the most limit credit line that can be allocated for defense procurement from overseas sources on this term that ended in 2024.

Using that number, and the talk of 40:40:20 distribution that's being around for some time to AF, Navy and Army. Then TNI-AU overseas procurement allocation at most is USD 8+ Bio for this term. What kind of procurement scenario that still can give TNI-AU their desire for a squadron of C-130J, MRTT, AEW/ISTAR, and replacement for GCI installation, while at same time keep their goal of 11 Sq of Fighters achievable ?

For one thing the Frenchie sales agent in Indonesia (the Tweeter guy), already tweet potential Frenchie will go for USD 3 bio for 24 Rafale (let's forget in complete package and sustainment costs first). If it's true, then the USD 1.1 bio budget that being set for 11-12 Su-35 before, used that to bargain with US and LM for 24 refurbished F-16 blk 30/40. Previous Administration already got 24 refurbished F-16 blk 25 before at USD 750 Mio, surely they can negotiate USD 1.1 bio for 24 refurbished F-16 blk 40 ?

That's leave around +/- USD 4 bio for getting other stuff. There're 24 Hawk 200 still operational, then used some budget to keep them operational for at least another decade.

Garuda Indonesia is in dire condition right now. The Management already talk to their creditors their plan to get rid half of their 737NG, all their A-330 200/300, all their 777 and keep only Half of their 737NG and A330 Neo. Off A-330 200 in Garuda, 4 of them are owned by Garuda instead Lessors. Thus Government can take over that (as part of capital injection compensation), and refurbished that for MRTT modifications. This can reduce the costs of MRTT to half, while give TNI-AU the number of MRTT they want (as before TNI-AU chief in media talk of 2+2 MRTT planning).

That still leave enough budget to get 3 ex RAF C-130J (to supplement 5 new ones that's being build by LM), 2-4 AEW (not Wedgetail off course), 2 CN-235/C-295 for ISTAR assets and 6-8 GCI.

With that TNI-AU can get 4 sq of F-16, 2 sq of Rafale, and still maintain their 2 Hawk 200 sq, 1 sq of Flankers, 1 sq of Super Tucano, and 1 sq of TA-50. Thus 11 Fighters sq they can maintain at least a decade, with only need for replacement after that.

Then the next Administration home work to find candidate for whatever Next Gen TNI-AU fighters. This provide at least some operational 'sanity' in TNI-AU operation, while also give Political Capital on defense procurement for this administration Political circles on the next election.

Again this is what I will suggest, if there's still 'sanity' check for TNI-AU operational capabilities. This talk of Rafale + F-15EX is simply unmaintainable for TNI-AU operational readiness. TNI already having problem to maintain readiness. One just can hope for 'sanity' check toward Defense procurement on TNI readiness and not just flashy assets.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

https://www.kemhan.go.id/strahan/2021/10/06/indonesia-france-defence-dialogue-ifdd-ke-8.html

View attachment 48571

View attachment 48572

Put it in here, as seems they are still talking on 'Rafale' . Wow, unless there are still other credit line that being allocated, how they're going to finance this Rafale and F-15E dream within the limit of credit line that being set by 'finance' people? Well it's beyond me .

Perhaps the rumours that I got about a year ago from 'finance' people could be what they're aiming. The rumours was the credit line limit that being prepared for Su-35 (USD 1.1 bio) will be use for US Fighters, while the previous plan for 32 F-16V credit line (calculate around USD 2.5 - 3.0 bio) will be use for French fighters instead. With that amount perhaps they can get 8 F-15E and 24 Rafale.

Off course this means life time sustainment cost not calculate on initial deal, but hey when Indonesian MinDef ever done that ? So the Armament will be calculate on next term, so the life time sustainment and maintenance support will be calculate on next term budget. 'Who cares' that next President problem.

But at least there'll be some budget left for C-130J, couple MRTT, couple AEW, and perhaps 2-4 new GCI radar. At least Politically it's catching. We can get F-15E and Rafale for deterrent factor. Who cares if those fighters will be very costly to maintain, there're still old F-16 and Hawk 200 doing patrol work. Perhaps they can bargain also with US to get more refurbished F-16.

After all this is Indonesian Defense procurement. Even during TNI birthday yesterday, TNI-AD chief being heard talk to President that even they have 56 Brazilian Astros MLRS but only 88 rocket left. Hey who cares, as long as in paper TNI has shiny armament. Political Image of having expensive procurement is more important then operational sustainment, or is it ??

Well enough of my ranting, just hope in the end those 'finance' people still can keep 'logic' in the ground on defense procurement Project.

Other sources talk about 56 Mistral launchers and 88 missiles.
From which i understand Indonesia ordered 36 Astros II Mk.6 MLRS in 2012, which had all been received and consequently used by two artillery battalions in the Kostrad Division 1 and 2. Later in June 2020 TNI-AD received 27 more Astros II Mk 6 rocket launchers with ammunition. So in total 63 pieces of Astros II Mk.6 launchers.

Why does we have to spend so much on MLRS? I don't think it is really suitable to defend Natuna with it. It would be better if they order more AS555, Bell 412EPI or AH-64E with that money.

It will be really sad if TNI-AU will become an ineffective and inefficient airforce, created only for showing off during airshows/military parades instead of guarding our airspace.

I'm trying to get into the mind of 'finance' people, when facing with MinDef demand of 'flashy' new toys. At the same time has to maintain 'sanity' against Political 'desire' to look flashy and glorious. One of the Chief 'finance' people already told in the media, that USD 20+ bio is the most limit credit line that can be allocated for defense procurement from overseas sources on this term that ended in 2024. Using that number, and the talk of 40:40:20 distribution that's being around for some time to AF, Navy and Army. Then TNI-AU overseas procurement allocation at most is USD 8+ Bio for this term. What kind of procurement scenario that still can give TNI-AU their desire for a squadron of C-130J, MRTT, AEW/ISTAR, and replacement for GCI installation, while at same time keep their goal of 11 Sq of Fighters achievable ? For one thing the Frenchie sales agent in Indonesia (the Tweeter guy), already tweet potential Frenchie will go for USD 3 bio for 24 Rafale (let's forget in complete package and sustainment costs first). If it's true, then the USD 1.1 bio budget that being set for 11-12 Su-35 before, used that to bargain with US and LM for 24 refurbished F-16 blk 30/40. Previous Administration already got 24 refurbished F-16 blk 25 before at USD 750 Mio, surely they can negotiate USD 1.1 bio for 24 refurbished F-16 blk 40 ? That's leave around +/- USD 4 bio for getting other stuff. There're 24 Hawk 200 still operational, then used some budget to keep them operational for at least another decade. Garuda Indonesia is in dire condition right now. The Management already talk to their creditors their plan to get rid half of their 737NG, all their A-330 200/300, all their 777 and keep only Half of their 737NG and A330 Neo. Off A-330 200 in Garuda, 4 of them are owned by Garuda instead Lessors. Thus Government can take over that (as part of capital injection compensation), and refurbished that for MRTT modifications. This can reduce the costs of MRTT to half, while give TNI-AU the number of MRTT they want (as before TNI-AU chief in media talk of 2+2 MRTT planning). That still leave enough budget to get 3 ex RAF C-130J (to supplement 5 new ones that's being build by LM), 2-4 AEW (not Wedgetail off course), 2 CN-235/C-295 for ISTAR assets and 6-8 GCI. With that TNI-AU can get 4 sq of F-16, 2 sq of Rafale, and still maintain their 2 Hawk 200 sq, 1 sq of Flankers, 1 sq of Super Tucano, and 1 sq of TA-50. Thus 11 Fighters sq they can maintain at least a decade, with only need for replacement after that. Then the next Administration home work to find candidate for whatever Next Gen TNI-AU fighters. This provide at least some operational 'sanity' in TNI-AU operation, while also give Political Capital on defense procurement for this administration Political circles on the next election. Again this is what I will suggest, if there's still 'sanity' check for TNI-AU operational capabilities. This talk of Rafale + F-15EX is simply unmaintainable for TNI-AU operational readiness. TNI already having problem to maintain readiness. One just can hope for 'sanity' check toward Defense procurement on TNI readiness and not just flashy assets.

Your plan sounds really good, but it will be too efficient and cost effective for this administration.

Have you ever seen the escorte to 'protect' a vaccination transport? Armoured vehicles, specialized cars for communication, Gegana, Nubika...somewhere between 20-25 cars to guide and protect one single truck of imported vaccinations. What a waste of money! Its like they were protecting the vice-president, 1000kg of gold or nuclear waste!
Thats the way officials/people with power spend our limited budget here: "asal prestisius dan boros!"

 

[Ananda]

sources talk about 56 Mistral launchers and 88 missiles.

Ahh perhaps it's more sense. The State Secretary media seems inadvertedly take that conversation during Jokowi's inspection. I heard that piece of conversation on You Tube, but not clear on which assets that Army Chief Andika means of there are 56 assets but only 88 rocket left. The source that I read speculate of Astros.

MLRS being acquaired to enhance Artilery forces. Seems TNI-AD wants step by step focusing their Artilery on mobile forces of 155mm Ceasar and MLRS.

will be really sad if TNI-AU will become an ineffective and inefficient airforce, created only for showing off during airshows/military parades instead of guarding our airspace.

Yes, that 'sanity' check that I'm hoping keep balance with Political desires of flashy procurement. Andika conversation with Jokowi I put as example on how MinDef and TNI brass more thinking getting the assets first, ammo later. We see that on TNI-AL FFBNW tendencies, and similar thing in TNI-AU.

This kind of thing can happen due budget prioritisation. However what 'finance' people ask and suggest to them (at least from runours that I got) is for making better contract. You can sources your ammo later on, but it can be lock on one contract from begining. While so far their practise is always on seperate contracts. That's more costly and time consuming, but provide multiple projects that many our Bureacrats like.

What a waste of money! Its like they were protecting the vice-president, 1000kg of gold or nuclear waste!

It's Indonesia. Political Image is everything. They want to show how serious on guarding the Vaccine. Remember 'Anti Vax' is also rampat in here

 

[Arji]

It's not 56 Astros with 88 rockets. I think he is referring to Mistral instead. You can see him talking to the president in here (time stamp: 1:24:10)

It's still sad regardless...

 

[STURM]

Why does we have to spend so much on MLRS? I don't think it is really suitable to defend Natuna with it.

I guess it boils down to actual need and preference on the part of the end user. When deployed with all its support vehicles [FCS, command, meteorological, etc], ASTROS [even unguided] is pretty accurate and can [depending on the type of round] hit targets at quite a distance away.

The Vietnamese have an Israeli made MLRS on their islands. On a number of occasions the Malaysians have fired their ASTROS on simulated targets at sea.

 

[OPSSG]

The Vietnamese have an Israeli made MLRS on their islands. On a number of occasions the Malaysians have fired their ASTROS on simulated targets at sea.

IMHO, the Vietnamese CONOPS, not workable in real life against the Chinese PLA(N), even with meteorological data — unless it is to resist an amphibious landing, that the Chinese don’t intend to do. Basically fail in planning.

The value of a MLRS system is speed of launch against landing craft — but the companion WLR only gives feedback on whether the rocket barrage is going to hit with a tight CEP or loose CEP. The TNI battery Commander corrects by firing another barrage — but I note that Chinese coast guard ships can move pretty fast, if they need to evade — plus the PLA(N) will shoot back, with a stabilised naval gun. The TNI WLR has a signature that the PLA(N) ESM system will detect and fire against.

It’s not fun for artillery to go against ships as you need to displace fast after shooting. The shoot cycle, measured in xx seconds, is even shorter than against an enemy SPH (about 106 to 120 seconds).

For comparison, the Super Rapid’s rate of fire is 120 rounds/min — hitting shore targets 20km inland is a bread and butter mission for the gun.

IMO, the 1st choice tool is a bunch of suicide drones, certain types of loitering munitions or HARM missiles to force radar shutdown. The second choice tool is anti-ship or PrSM missiles. The third choice tool is an attack helicopter. The 4th choice is HIMARS or a long range MLRS (must be twice the range of 122mm rockets).

 

[Ananda]

One of the attraction on Astros for coastal defence is this Avibras AV-TM 300 SSM. Couple years back there's talk TNI-AD wants acquaire this missile for their Astros. Thus provide context on using Astros for front line coastal defense on area like Natuna. This also for their justification on their choice for Astros as MLRS.

No further information on TNI intention for getting that missiles for their Astros. Anyway should not talk more on Astros in this thread. Should move it to Indonesian Army Thread. My mistakes though that opening Andika and Jokowi conversation topic as example in this thread .

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

It's not 56 Astros with 88 rockets. I think he is referring to Mistral instead. You can see him talking to the president in here (time stamp: 1:24:10)

It's still sad regardless...

Thank you for sharing.
It is indeed sad, just 88 missiles on stock for 56 Komodo vehicles, and we are talking about some cheap MANPADS.

I am curious about the stock of Starstreak missiles. Maybe its as bad as the amount of AIM-120C-7s.

 

[Toptob]

With that TNI-AU can get 4 sq of F-16, 2 sq of Rafale, and still maintain their 2 Hawk 200 sq, 1 sq of Flankers, 1 sq of Super Tucano, and 1 sq of TA-50. Thus 11 Fighters sq they can maintain at least a decade, with only need for replacement after that.

Then the next Administration home work to find candidate for whatever Next Gen TNI-AU fighters. This provide at least some operational 'sanity' in TNI-AU operation, while also give Political Capital on defense procurement for this administration Political circles on the next election.

I'm not buying it! This is hyperbole stacked on a mountain of wishful thinking. You know your political class and civil service is far to busy circle jerking about how to divide the pork of their ridiculous deals that are about nothing but to fuel their corrupt elitist tribe... that's the wishful thinking.

The hyperbole is calling that mismatched aircraft graveyard of Sukhoi's a squadron. I'm not buying it! Can they even bring those in the air for anything other than to buzz a parade on special occasions? Those things are hard enough to keep airworthy under the best of circumstances, and with the low numbers and the difficulty of getting spares from the Russians I just can't believe that they fly a whole lot.

There's only one reasonable option for those Flankers, and that is to get rid of them. They have absolutely zero value and they're just using up valuable resources and personnel. Sell them to the Vietnamese for spares or maybe give them to the US in some sort of deal and get out what value you can.

It's perfect! This deal was done long ago, all the bribes should have been paid by now so the people that "matter" shouldn't have a financial stake in them anymore so the biggest hurdle should be gone...

 

[STURM]

IMHO, the Vietnamese CONOPS, not workable in real life against the Chinese PLA(N), even with meteorological data — unless it is to resist an amphibious landing, that the Chinese don’t intend to do. Basically fail in planning.

Not an ideal solution but I would think that the main reason the Vietnamese placed MLRS there is to force enemy ships - whether they are there for a landing or enforcing a blockade - to stay as far out as possible,

It’s not fun for artillery to go against ships as you need to displace fast after shooting. The shoot cycle, measured in xx seconds, is even shorter than against an enemy SPH (about 106 to 120 seconds).

Agreed but it's also not fun for a ship to be straddled by a salvo of HE rockets. Yes the ship can rapidly gain speed to avoid another attack and even fire back; depends on the circumstances I guess. Things would get somewhat easier if a guided round was available to the MLRS.

 

[OPSSG]

I'm not buying it! This is hyperbole stacked on a mountain of wishful thinking. You know your political class and civil service is far to busy circle jerking about how to divide the pork of their ridiculous deals that are about nothing but to fuel their corrupt elitist tribe... that's the wishful thinking.

Thank you for your views but please consider being also kind, as there are good and honest people in Indonesia.

​

(a) The TNI-AU’s primary combat aircraft, the F-16Cs, Hawk, and Su-27/-30, come in six different variants and from three different manufacturers. Coupled with small quantities, different types and versions makes maintenance, repair, and overhaul a daunting task. Besides problems with separate spares and logistical chains, interoperability amongst the types is virtually non-existent.​

​

(b) The TNI AU have indicated their preference for acquiring F-16Vs and we hope their leadership’s expressed views would be taken into consideration by the Minister of Defence, going forward — despite ongoing discussions on sale of the Dassault Rafale to the TNI AU. In early Oct 2021, Indonesian Defense Ministry delegation visited French Air Force Base 113 Saint Dizier home of the Rafale during the 8th Indonesia - France Defence Dialogue (IFDD).​

There's only one reasonable option for those Flankers, and that is to get rid of them. They have absolutely zero value and they're just using up valuable resources and personnel. Sell them to the Vietnamese for spares or maybe give them to the US in some sort of deal and get out what value you can.

That is a creative solution.

With that TNI-AU can get 4 sq of F-16… and still maintain their 2 Hawk 200 sq, 1 sq of Flankers, 1 sq of Super Tucano, and 1 sq of TA-50. Thus 11 Fighters sq they can maintain at least a decade, with only need for replacement after that.

Then the next Administration home work to find candidate for whatever Next Gen TNI-AU fighters. This provide at least some operational 'sanity' in TNI-AU operation, while also give Political Capital on defense procurement for this administration Political circles on the next election.

The French lobby, for sale of missiles in all 3 services, for the TNI AL’s proposed acquisition of the Scorpène-class submarines and ongoing talks for a TNI AU Dassault Rafale fleet are strong now but they can be managed (or defeated locally, where a purchase is illogical). It is likely, they will win some and lose some. I think, more than most, our Indonesian members understand the scale of the challenge and are speaking truth to power, to persuade the masses on sensible modernisation steps to take. We know that members of other forums read the various posts, here and once they understand the concepts explained, it tends to have an effect on behaviour.

It would not be possible for the SAF has maintain close ties with the TNI (at all three service levels), if there are no people who act in good faith on both sides — the only long term issue that is faced by us is with their slightly misguided TNI AL Marines.

When the SAF deploys a command team for CTF-151, there is always a TNI member working with us, which is a sign of support. There is desire for the SAF and the TNI to work together.

 

[Toptob]

I had written this whole thing, but let me just say. I apologize if I offended anyone, I meant no harm.

Back on topic,

Lately I've been thinking that one of the best areas for investment for many countries is to invest in missile development and/or production. Although less sexy than aircraft I think license production or inclusion in the production chain of essential ordnance is more valuable target in ToT or workshare negotiations in defense procurement.

I think the discussion above about the lack of rockets and air to air ordnance is a good illustration why. Of course it's important to maintain your platforms and it helps to have some of that supply chain close by. But an aircraft or a rocket launcher won't be of much use without ammunition. In a realistic scenario you would want to at least be able to arm your platforms and have a few reloads.

I don't know about the chances with the US, but maybe the French would be willing to have a production facility or licence production of AAM's in a potential deal. Unconventional I know but it does provide a layer of security knowing that the weapons you do have can be fired without having to worry about the stockpile of ordnance.

 

[STURM]

I don't know about the chances with the US, but maybe the French would be willing to have a production facility or licence production of AAM's in a potential deal. Unconventional I know but it does provide a layer of security knowing that the weapons you do have can be fired without having to worry about the stockpile of ordnance.

Depends on who the end user is. If it's country with a small requirement for AAMs and which doesn't expect itself to be in a major conflct; may not be worth the effort.

As long as the end user pays for it and as long as nothing major in terms of know how or technology is shared; no reason why the French wouldn't agree. It's a win/win situation for the French. The end user could also choose to create a large stockpile; like what Iran under the Shah did with parts for U.S. ordnance and spares. That enabled Iran to sustain itself for a long period during a period where it was allowed to stock up with U.S. stuff or easily source stuff from elsewhere like Iraq could.

 

[Ananda]

This is hyperbole stacked on a mountain of wishful thinking. You know your political class and civil service is far to busy circle jerking about how to divide the pork of their ridiculous deals that are about nothing but to fuel their corrupt elitist tribe... that's the wishful thinking.

Well it is wishfull thinking. As it's basically 'compromise' solution between relative effective operation fleet, and Flashy fleet that only good as parade performance. No doubt 'corupt' practise is always there in Indonesian Bureaucracy and Political circles. All Indonesian members in this forums knows that (eventough not all agree on the level). However just as @OPSSG put there're also decent people in Bureaucracy and Political Circle try to balance it. What I'm putting is wishfull list on try to balance, that I hope the 'sanity' factions can try to bring in.

This thread already talking this for pages on pages. You can try to see back. Some of Indonesian members including my self always think that the best way for TNI-AU at this moment to focus with F-16 family and LCA like Hawk 200 or FA-50. TNI-AU knows this, but Political consideration can go another way around.

Incidently the one administration that actualy provide better planning for TNI-AU operation was one of the most corrupt ones. Soeharto try to focus TNI-AU operation only with Two Type of Fighters. MRCA and Light Attack. Begin in 70's and 80's with F-5E and A-4 and 90's onward with F-16 and Hawk 200. His downfall and Political conditions after that responsible on creating all this mess.

There's only one reasonable option for those Flankers, and that is to get rid of them. They have absolutely zero value and they're just using up valuable resources and personnel. Sell them to the Vietnamese for spares or maybe give them to the US in some sort of deal and get out what value you can.

Actually my self already put selling Flankers to Vietnam as an option several pages back. However Politically it's unlikely. Flankers come as work of two previous administration which one belong to opposition and other as part of ruling coalition now. So selling Flankers now can constitute that both ruling and opposition parties are wrong. I don't think they will do it. Personally I suport that, but don't think it will happen until at least end of this decade.

Do remember Politically Flankers being bought due to less friendly western position with Indonesia during first decade of 21st century. After US pull the embargo, SBY then order 24 more F-16. Thus Flankers is part of Political Game.

Add:

Bamsoet Dorong Penguatan Alutsista untuk Pertahanan Udara Indonesia

Ketua MPR RI Bambang Soesatyo mengungkapkan dukungan dan dorongannya akan penguatan Alutsista TNI guna mendukung pertahanan udara Indonesia.

news.detik.com

This is article from Indonesian online Media Detik.Com with one of Parliement Leading member from ruling coalition. He's talking on Rafale and F-15EX that will be bought. For us in Indonesia that use to see Political circles changing position, see this as just highly potential but not yet a sure thing.

I put this article just as example how Indonesian Political Circle support for F-15EX and Rafale is quite strong. However in the end money trails that matter. 'Finance' people and MinDef techinical people will point out which are affordable and more concrete contracts proposals and financing scheme will be taken. That's why I'm still hoping on more 'effective' solutions proposes by them.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Looking to the costs, the Sukhois fly probably less hours a year than the Hawks. But the Sukhois not only fly during airshows and military celebrations, they also fly trainingmissions and patrols, from Makassar and other bases.

Compared to the other jetfighters, the Hawks seem to have quite low costs to operate, but they lack range and payload. The Hawks are actually unusable for patrols above Natuna, even if they operate from Supadio Airbase. In my opinion it will be better to replace them with more T-50Is. More range, more payload, and an aircraft type less to handle.



Now something else.
Yesterday there was a testflight ceremony of a CN235-220 with bioavtur at Bandara Soekarno-Hatta (CGK). I don't know why it is done at the Garuda Maintenance Facility, but it is maybe easier for the press and officials to go to GMF instead of traveling all the way to Bandung.
The bioavtur has 2,4% of biological content and is developed by ITB and Pertamina in cooperation with IPTN.

This almost 2 hours long video is totally uninteresting and boring, but around 1:20:00 you can see that the right wing of the CN235 is filled with the Bioavtur.

 

[STURM]

Ananda,

I may have asked you this before, if so, apologies. How popular are the Su-27s/30s with the TNI-AU? Have you heard of any complains?

In the RMAF the Su-30 is appreciated for the capabities it provides but unless it is forced to, the RMAF actually has no intention of getting anymore. This is due mainly to commonality issues, as well as issues in the past dealing with the Russians.

 

[Ananda]

may have asked you this before, if so, apologies. How popular are the Su-27s/30s

Sturm, I believe TNI-AU feeling on those Flankers is mutual with RMAF. They appreciate the capabilities of Flankers, but also in media (at least during SBY era) they also acknowledge that it's much more expensive to operate then F-16.

Officially during Jokowi's era, when the Political forces around Jokowi's wants to order Su-35 to replace F-5, TNI-AU provide positive support for it. However in the same time they also put F-16V to be acquire. That's why you can say Flankers is Political option but TNI-AU always prefer F-16 family.

When Prabowo's taking over as Defense Minister, during his first meeting in Parliament, Indonesian online blogs and media put some leakage from the meeting that TNI-AU still put F-16V on their wish list.

CAATSA push down SU-35 from wishlist, and that's where Political circles come out with Rafale and F-35 (as compensation for not procuring Su-35). When F-35 wish list got negative response from US, they (Political circles) ask for F-15EX as US offer F-16V or F-18E/F. Political circles in here means Prabowo's and people around Jokowi's.

So that's it. It's choice between Political aspirations and TNI-AU aspirations. TNI-AU will always play safe Politically but (it's my assessments) that they will done subtle lobbying on what they really want behind the door.

That's why I wrote it's in the end going to be compromise game between Political aspirations, Technical aspirations from users (TNI-AU) and reality of budget from 'finance' people.

Well that's my view. Perhaps other Indonesian members can give their own perspective on this.

 

[STURM]

Ananda,

Indonesia is the largest country in the region and the U.S. is very deternined to contain China. If Indonesia made it a priority to purchase F-35s, in your opinion wouldn't it eventually suceed?