Indonesian Aero News

[Ananda]

Perkuat Pertahanan Udara, Kasau Resmikan 4 Satuan Di Natuna

Perkuat Pertahanan Udara, Kasau Resmikan 4 Satuan Di Natuna - Berita - TNI Angkatan Udara

tni-au.mil.id

Looks like the implementation on strengthening Natuna keeps going on. TNI-AU now makes Ranai AB as home base for Squadron (Sq 52) with permanent 3 Air Defense detachment. There's no official announcement yet on what assets that this 52nd Sq will have. One media already write it will be fill by TA-50, another online media put it as UAV sq. Also not clear yet what Air Defense assets that will be stationed there under those 3 Air Defense detachment.

Whatever the assets will be, those assets will permanently based in Natuna. This make Ranai AB in Natuna basically being upgraded with permanent Air Defense assets and Operational Squadron. Even if at this moment they only operating old S-60 57mm gun, the foundation for operational Air Defense already stations there. Thus it's just matter of new equipment changes.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Perkuat Pertahanan Udara, Kasau Resmikan 4 Satuan Di Natuna

Perkuat Pertahanan Udara, Kasau Resmikan 4 Satuan Di Natuna - Berita - TNI Angkatan Udara

tni-au.mil.id

Looks like the implementation on strengthening Natuna keeps going on. TNI-AU now makes Ranai AB as home base for Squadron (Sq 52) with permanent 3 Air Defense detachment. There's no official announcement yet on what assets that this 52nd Sq will will have. One media already write it will be fill by TA-50, another online media put it as UAV sq. Also not clear yet what Air Defense assets that will be stationed there under those 3 Air Defense detachment.

Whatever the assets will be, those assets will permanently based in Natuna. This make Ranai AB in Natuna basically being upgraded with permanent Air Defense assets and Operational Squadron.

Looking to the name of the new squadron, SkU 52, i am quite sure it will be an UAV squadron.
All fighter squardons use a number under the 20, but the first and only UAV squadron of TNI-AU, is SkU 51 at Supadio AB.

Besides that, at this moment we have 14 T-50Is, even with the additional 6 T-50I on order, 20 is not enough to create a second squadron.

 

[Ananda]

Diresmikan KSAU, Ini Kelebihan 3 Detasemen Paskhas TNI AU dan Skadron 52 Pengawal Natuna

Tiga Denhanud Paskhas TNI AU dan satu Skadron Udara Pesawat Tempur T501 Golden Eagle telah diresmikan KSAU Marsekal TNI Fadjar Prasetyo untuk memperkuat pertahanan...

daerah.sindonews.com

Sindonews claim they have information that Sq 52 will be equipped with T-50i. TNI-AU still call their fleet as T-50i, but according to KAI definition it should fall to TA-50 as it's already equipped with Radar and has Ground Attack capabilities of Maverick and limited Air Defense of Sidewinder.

However the prefix '5' on the squadron also shown possibility it's an UAV sq as you've put. Perhaps all speculations can be true also. It can be a hybrid sq. Perhaps the new order of 6 T-50i/TA-50 can be send to this new sq. Hybrid with whatever MALE UAV they're going to put there. Ironic if they're going to put China made CH-4 to keep track PLAN and Chinese Coast Guard.

One thing why I support more T-50i program for TNI-AU is the flexibility that KAI create on basic Airframes to be easily upgraded even to FA-50. During ADEX 2021, KAI shown graphics on what they are planning on evolving FA-50.



It's going to be well rounded LCA (eventough they put it as MRCA). That's why I support if Indonesia still want to continue developing DI - KAI co-op, to switch from licensing KF-21 toward licensing FA-50. Again it's better on DI learning curve, and more realistic to the budget.

TNI-AU wants to have 11 fighters squadron. With what Indonesia defense budget realistically can provide (even to next decade), it's more likely 2/3 of that fill with LCA like FA-50 (or refurbished second hand F-16).

The budget even years to come will only can afford MRCA either Rafale, KF-21, or even F-16V at most of 2-3 sq. TNI-AU also can't hope to effectively operating more MRCA. Even now, the significant part of patrolling sorties handle mostly by Hawk 200. Shown using LCA actually provide better operatibility for TNI-AU. Sensible approach has to come to MinDef then Political wish.

Current procurement plan depends on Credit Line. Thus it will be using future defense budget up to end of this decade at least to sustain that. Something that many Indonesian defense enthusiasts don't realize that. There's no way within this decade we can afford 2% GDP for defense (no matter whose going to be the next president is). Unless China do more stupid thing in SCS.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Diresmikan KSAU, Ini Kelebihan 3 Detasemen Paskhas TNI AU dan Skadron 52 Pengawal Natuna

Tiga Denhanud Paskhas TNI AU dan satu Skadron Udara Pesawat Tempur T501 Golden Eagle telah diresmikan KSAU Marsekal TNI Fadjar Prasetyo untuk memperkuat pertahanan...

daerah.sindonews.com

Sindonews claim they have information that Sq 52 will be equipped with T-50i. TNI-AU still call their fleet as T-50i, but according to KAI definition it should fall to TA-50 as it's already equipped with Radar and has Ground Attack capabilities of Maverick and limited Air Defense of Sidewinder.

However the prefix '5' on the squadron also shown possibility it's an UAV sq as you've put. Perhaps all speculations can be true also. It can be a hybrid sq. Perhaps the new order of 6 T-50i/TA-50 can be send to this new sq. Hybrid with whatever MALE UAV they're going to put there. Ironic if they're going to put China made CH-4 to keep track PLAN and Chinese Coast Guard.

One thing why I support more T-50i program for TNI-AU is the flexibility that KAI create on basic Airframes to be easily upgraded even to FA-50. During ADEX 2021, KAI shown graphics on what they are planning on evolving FA-50.

View attachment 48612

It's going to be well rounded LCA (eventough they put it as MRCA). That's why I support if Indonesia still want to continue developing DI - KAI co-op, to switch from licensing KF-21 toward licensing FA-50. Again it's better on DI learning curve, and more realistic to the budget.

TNI-AU wants to have 11 fighters squadron. With what Indonesia defense budget realistically can provide (even to next decade), it's more likely 2/3 of that fill with LCA like FA-50 (or refurbished second hand F-16).

The budget even years to come will only can afford MRCA either Rafale, KF-21, or even F-16V at most of 2-3 sq. TNI-AU also can't hope to effectively operating more MRCA. Even now, the patrolling sq mostly fall to Hawk 200. Sensible approach has to come to MinDef then Political wish.

Current procurement plan depends on Credit Line. Thus it will be using future defense budget up to end of this decade at least to sustain that. Something that many Indonesian defense enthusiasts don't realize that. There's no way within this decade we can afford 2% GDP for defense (no matter whose going to be the next president is). Unless China do more stupid thing in SCS.

According to TNI-AU:
|"Empat satuan TNI AU yang baru tersebut adalah, Skadron Udara 52, Detasemen Pertahanan Udara 475, 476 dan 477 Paskhas."|

If I'm not wrong these Paskhasau squadrons are part of Resimen/Wing 400 Rudal Jarak Pendek Hanud Titik.

So i think they do not operating the NASAMS, but the Oerlikon Skyshield/Chiron combination or the chinese QW-3.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

|"Indonesia is seeking greater autonomy from Airbus in the manufacturing process for the CN235 twin-turboprop aircraft."|

Until now all CN235s are 50%-50% made by CASA and IPTN, these components are later assembled in the factories in Sevilla and Bandung. Maybe the plan is to also build the nose, front fuselage and inner part of the wings in IPTN's plant in Bandung. This can also be more practical if IPTN continue with the development of N245.

|"....as an offset condition should Jakarta decide to procure A400M multirole aircraft for the Indonesian Air Force."|
We just have to wait and see how this develops, because earlier reports talking about only 2 A400Ms for a state operated airline instead of the airforce, and a customer can not get a lot of bonuses by such a small amount.

There are plans to give Pelita Air a Part 121 AOC, but i have the feeling that this has nothing to do with the A400M.

Indonesia seeks more autonomy on CN235 production in offset talks for A400M

Indonesia is seeking greater autonomy from Airbus in the manufacturing process for the CN235 twin-turboprop aircraft.

www.janes.com

 

[Ananda]

South Korea, Indonesia move closer to KF-21 agreement, says DAPA

South Korea and Indonesia are edging closer to an agreement about Jakarta's financial commitment to the programme to develop the KF-21 Boramae multirole fighter...

www.janes.com

Why it is always South Korean officials that shown optimism with Indonesia continues involvement with KFX/KF-21, in Media ? While Indonesian officials more or less keep silence or at best shown ambiguous position, without talking the money trails to prove Indonesian commitment ?

Again if Indonesia still continue talking on Rafale and F-15EX as MinDef official put it in Media, how they (MinDef) are going to be able to afford continue commitment with KFX/KF-21 in this decade ? Unless ROK willing to cover Indonesian commitment with their own fund, back it up only by Indonesian 'Political' contract extended toward next administration jurisdiction (which practically will be in question to be honor, as shown by present administration).

Perhaps ROK already satisfied with another long term extended Political commitment from Indonesia, without money trails to follow. Remember money trails has to shown where the money coming from that follow each payment schedule. If not it's just another 'uncomitted' schedule just as Indonesian delayed payment within present schedule (that committed by previous administration).

 

[STURM]

Ananda, have any pics of the CH-4s fitted with their missiles been released yet?

Also, sorry I'm very out of touch with the TNI-AU, did it indeed acquire Herons a few years ago?

 

[Ananda]

TNI-AU never acquire Heron. They acquire Aerostar from Israel (through their reps in Philippines). After that they acquire CH-4 from China. Those are the two MALE UAV confirm in TNI-AU inventory, asside some shorter range domestically build UAV. There's rumours of DI will work also with TAI for Anka, but so far no further additional solid info on that.

Next MALE UAV by plan should be the local build DI/BPPT Black Eagle. As for Ch-4 I believe there's photo in this thread on missile for CH-4 coming to TNI-AU inventory (forgot either Sandhi or me, or other Indonesian members that post it).

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

South Korea, Indonesia move closer to KF-21 agreement, says DAPA

South Korea and Indonesia are edging closer to an agreement about Jakarta's financial commitment to the programme to develop the KF-21 Boramae multirole fighter...

www.janes.com

Why it is always South Korean officials that shown optimism with Indonesia continues involvement with KFX/KF-21, in Media ? While Indonesian officials more or less keep silence or at best shown ambiguous position, without talking the money trails to prove Indonesian commitment ?

Again if Indonesia still continue talking on Rafale and F-15EX as MinDef official put it in Media, how they (MinDef) are going to be able to afford continue commitment with KFX/KF-21 in this decade ? Unless ROK willing to cover Indonesian commitment with their own fund, back it up only by Indonesian 'Political' contract extended toward next administration jurisdiction (which practically will be in question to be honor, as shown by present administration).

Perhaps ROK already satisfied with another long term extended Political commitment from Indonesia, without money trails to follow. Remember money trails has to shown where the money coming from that follow each payment schedule. If not it's just another 'uncomitted' schedule just as Indonesian delayed payment within present schedule (that committed by previous administration).

I forgot how much of the 20% Indonesia already paid to South-Korea, but maybe Indonesia can still join the project with the money already paid.
So if Indonesia for example already paid 5%, than they can maybe participate for a quart of the original plan.


Yesterday an NC-212i with tail number AX-2127 was delivered to TNI-AU. If im not wrong 9 NC212i transport aircrafts are ordered to replace the NC212-200s in service, but i forgot which number this one is.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1452908506772692993

Edited.
It seems to be the second of nine ordered NC212i

PTDI delivers second of nine NC212i aircraft to Indonesian Air Force

State-owned aircraft manufacturer PT Dirgantara Indonesia (PTDI) announced on 26 October that it has delivered the second of nine NC212i aircraft ordered for the...

www.janes.com

 

[Ananda]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1454423068122701831

Put it in here, as this Jokowi's Twitter talk more on strengthening the defense co-op that being signed in June between Prabowo's and his French counterpart Parly.

Perhaps Political force are supporting enough already for Rafale. Questions there's seems some kind of off set deals on joint production for French defense assets. As this's Jokowi's Twitter, then it's seems his administration Political choices.

Will see how this bargain going to develop.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1454423068122701831

Put it in here, as this Jokowi's Twitter talk more on strengthening the defense co-op that being signed in June between Prabowo's and his French counterpart Parly.

Perhaps Political force are supporting enough already for Rafale. Questions there's seems some kind of off set deals on joint production for French defense assets. As this's Jokowi's Twitter, then it's seems his administration Political choices.

Will see how this bargain going to develop.

This is the third time this year that there was an agreement/meeting/deal between France and Indonesia for improved/increased defence cooperation.

And France wasnt the only country, during the last three years there were many such agreements/deals with other countries too.

 

[Ananda]

France wasnt the only country, during the last three years there were many such agreements/deals with other countries too.

Yes, however the meeting with Macron is the only meeting (so far) in G20 that Jokowi emphasises defense agreements. Other defense co-op emphasises by his ministers (either Prabowo's as MoD or Retno as MoFA) level.

He's after all Nation's CEO, and he (like many other Nation's CEO) now days using their Twitter to shown their administrations political choices (thanks to Trump I guess). Still it's Indonesia afterall, and his administrations has shown defense strategic planing flip flop (especialy in first term). So lets see how this developing, but his tweet (at least in Political statement) in my opinion already raised the game one notch.

 

[Ananda]

Add:

Political consideration is always determining Indonesian Defense co-op agreement. This's already being done from Soekarno's and Soeharto's regime time. Both dictactorship like it or not mold Indonesian Political practices, and Defense in the end will be determined by that rather than users choices.

Thus no matter how far TNI as users doing more professional studies, in the end Political choices will be taking precedent. Base on my observation as Financial Industry practicioner (and this's not just in defense), Indonesian priority on any government projects take this kind of priority order:
1. Political Choices,
2. Budget (money trails) availability,
3. Users recommendation.

It doesn't means the lower priority can't influence the higher priority. However the influence of lower priority order has to be considered on how getting the higher order execute.

The problem is always (and this's not just for Indonesia, however more matter in Indonesia), the second and third order more or less in clearer cut position. Either you have it or not. While the first order is more 'Grey' area (for Indonesia case can be 'murkier'). Political consideration always having more influence not only with Political reality but also Political circles interest.

Take example on High Speed rails project. The users (Indonesian rail road company) was known by us in Financial Industry already shown preference using Japanese vendors and tech rather than Chinese ones. The financial calculation shown Japanese offering actually more clear cut on potential problem in project execution. However the Chinese offer end up being taken,on consideration it's cheaper and only base on B to B arrangements (between Chinese vendors and Indonesian SOE), thus in paper they (present administration) tell the public it will not going to use State Budget. While Japanese offer asside more expensive (in paper) also demand backing from State Budget.

Turn out this project need additional USD 2 bio (so far) that in the end has to come/guarantee by state budget. Moreover the cost overrun is part on what Japanese already calculate. So even with the second and third order already shown preference, it's the first order that in the end will win.

Indonesia turns to state coffers as China-led rail project's costs soar

Belt and Road deal sours amid mounting delays for Jakarta-Bandung line

asia.nikkei.com

.

I'm not going to discuss the Political choices behind this, however just put is as example how Indonesian Strategic projects (yes High Speed rails project is considered as Strategic one), in the end will be determined by the first priority order. Political choices in the end will determine the courses taken.

On defense Geopolitical situation seems already shown where Indonesia going to. Indonesia so far decide not to challenge CAATSA, Indonesia defense circles decided to build closer relationship within ASEAN five, Australia, NZ, Japan, ROK, and Western alliance. However at same time still maintain relationship with China and Russia eventough on relative lower degrees then before. This is shown on recent defense co-op and procurement picks.

This doesn't means on practice Internal ruling parties circles of interest will not determine which Western sources going to be taken. However for Air Defense Assets, I do see Political and Geopolitical reality means some US procurement has to be taken.

Thus despite current administration closer relationship with Frenchie, doesn't mean French position already safe. After all if changes in defense co-op can happen in Australia, imagine in Indonesia. I do see in the end some US assets will need to be procure. Not only due to users preference (TNI-AU always shown preference to US assets), but also to Geopolitical reality. How they are going to prioritize based on budget consideration (the second order/money trails), that's will be interesting (at least for me as Financial people) to see.

 

[Ananda]

PT. LEN (SOE in Electronics), put in their Twitter, model of 3D radar which they are working on with Foreign Partner. Previous information from them shown working with Leonardo on RAT 31.

The models due resemble RAT 31 mobile facilities. Seems the co-op on 3D GCI radar still with Leonardo.

 

[Ananda]

Additional picture from MinDef Twitter. The full scale model on 3D GCI radar in PT. LEN workshop. If this project succesful, then there will be no choice from MinDef to sources CGI radar from PT. LEN. Otherwise it will be political problem especially close to election.

That's why any 'sales' like the Twitter guy that talking on CGI radar coming from different vendors, is guys that can't read Political position. It should be whoever vendors that work with PT. LEN. If LEN then work with Leonardo, then it's Leonardo that got projects also.

In the monitor it's put that the Array Beam Direction using Electronics Beam Finding/Steering. I'm not technical guys, but seems it's indicating this GCI radar already use AESA principles.

 

[Ananda]

Global leader in C-130 upgrades: Collins Aerospace and GMF to transform Indonesian Air Force C-130H aircraft with modern digital cockpit

The Indonesian Air Force joins a growing list of customers that have selected Collins Aerospace for its C-130H Hercules military transport aircraft modernization effort.

www.collinsaerospace.com

There's news in media before that GMF (Garuda Indonesia MRO Subsidiaries) got contract to modified TNI-AU C-130H. The Collins Aerospace announcement shown they are also involved in the project for avionics and cockpit modifications.

GMF Dapat Kontrak USD 80 Juta dari Kemhan, Rawat Pesawat Hercules TNI AU

GMF Aero Asia mendapatkan kontrak dari Kementerian Pertahanan untuk perawatan pesawat Hercules C-130 milik TNI AU.

kumparan.com

According to the information in Media before, GMF contract mostly on Airframes, Engines and sub system. Seems what they are doing on partnering with Collins is part of that.

It's not clear if the 8 C-130H that're going to be refurbished by GMF come from TNI-AU original stocks from the 80's or the ex RAAF ones. Considering RAAF already done some works on Airframes and Cockpit layout before transferring those C-130H to TNI-AU, I suspect the former ones.

 

[Ananda]

MinDef FB page just put pictures of meeting between Prabowo and US Ambassador. So I'm in the mood like many Indonesian forums and on-line defense community that gossip on finalisation of US defense items procurement (which mostly related to AF).

Well with Rafale and KFX talk, is there money trail left available ? Something has to give.

 

[Ananda]

Rafale, Kemandirian Vs Embargo

Proposal pembelian pesawat tempur Rafale dan kapal selam dari Perancis tengah dibahas. Dinamika di kawasan dapat menjadi peluang bagi Indonesia untuk memuluskan proses itu sekaligus mengadopsi teknologi baru.

www.kompas.id

Related to my previous post, now this article on Kompas talk about how Frenchie step up the game. I already put the link on how during G20, Jokowi only stated defense co-op with Macron, despite he talk with various leaders including Bidden.

Frenchie now through their ambassador talking how working with them, will help Indonesia achieve 'independent' on the assets that being procured. Jokowi himself already talking on his administration standing position, defense investment and not just defense procurement.

How this's going to translate ? Short version seems he wants partner that going to provide help to build Indonesia industrial capabilities. Frenchie ambassador talking on 'independent' of assets that being procured is in my opinion play to psych of many Indonesian Political circles and TNI brass.

I personally always back to money trails. What ever the choices, there's limited budget available for Indonesian defense procurement line for the rest of this Jokowi's last term. This talk of Rafale, F-15EX and continuation of KFX simply can't be afforded all together.

So whatever the choice must be satisfied the narrative of Defense Investment, but also must still within the limit of available credit line ceiling that 'finance' people already set.

Thus I'm still see it is one choice only for MRCA. I just don't see enough money trail available for them to talk all three or two choices, even with multiyear batches procurement.

Unless they go back to only doing procurement and not defense Investment.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Rafale, Kemandirian Vs Embargo

Proposal pembelian pesawat tempur Rafale dan kapal selam dari Perancis tengah dibahas. Dinamika di kawasan dapat menjadi peluang bagi Indonesia untuk memuluskan proses itu sekaligus mengadopsi teknologi baru.

www.kompas.id

Related to my previous post, now this article on Kompas talk about how Frenchie step up the game. I already put the link on how during G20, Jokowi only stated defense co-op with Macron, despite he talk with various leaders including Bidden.

Frenchie now through their ambassador talking how working with them, will help Indonesia achieve 'independent' on the assets that being procured. Jokowi himself already talking on his administration standing position, defense investment and not just defense procurement.

How this's going to translate ? Short version seems he wants partner that going to provide help to build Indonesia industrial capabilities. Frenchie ambassador talking on 'independent' of assets that being procured is in my opinion play to psych of many Indonesian Political circles and TNI brass.

I personally always back to money trails. What ever the choices, there's limited budget available for Indonesian defense procurement line for the rest of this Jokowi's last term. This talk of Rafale, F-15EX and continuation of KFX simply can't be afforded all together.

So whatever the choice must be satisfied the narrative of Defense Investment, but also must still within the limit of available credit line ceiling that 'finance' people already set.

Thus I'm still see it is one choice only for MRCA. I just don't see enough money trail available for them to talk all three or two choices, even with multiyear batches procurement.

Unless they go back to only doing procurement and not defense Investment.

I am not an insider, but looking to the political unwillingness of this administration to join the KF-X program, the fact that Indonesia still has to pay $593 million, the investments needed for the production facility, and on top of that the costs for 50 KF-Xes, i am actually quite sure that the KF-X will be sacrificed as first to make the other acquisitions possible.

S. Korea, Indonesia to hold last-stage talks over overdue payments for fighter jet project | Yonhap News Agency

By Song Sang-ho SEOUL, Nov. 5 (Yonhap) -- South Korea and Indonesia will hold what could ...

m-en.yna.co.kr

Break or In for Indonesia. If this Yonhap article sources right, then it's a good thing ROK push Indonesia for final negotiations. This Drama is just getting to long.

Push Indonesian Administration on definitive answer. Either in or break from the Project. If 'In' what's Indonesia commitment not only on payment due but also further Investment in the project. If 'Break', what's then ? Working to other aero Project or just cut for good with KAI/ROK co-op.

In the end has to come to business decision, and not just 'political' stand point. Money talk, and money trail has to be shown, not just cheap talk.

According this article the (probably last) negotiations are now ongoing. Besides a total rejection, some kind of weird compromise is also possible, like that Indonesia can stay more or less in the program with less workshare in return for a very small amount of additional payments. Or like Ananda already suggested, some kind of licence production of the T-50. In both cases the Korean and Indonesian governments can bring this to the public that there are no losers.

TNI-AU is already in the possession of the Oerlikon Skyshield, i wonder if just a software upgrade and special new 35 mm rounds is enough to transform it to this system.

 

[Ananda]

Besides a total rejection, some kind of weird compromise is also possible, like that Indonesia can stay more or less in the program with less workshare in return for a very small amount of additional payments.

Seoul, Jakarta hash out fighter jet disagreement

Korea and Indonesia will start renegotiating their joint investment in the next-generation fighter KF-21, also known as the Boramae, Wednesday and Thursday in Jakarta.

koreajoongangdaily.joins.com

It's bit weird that ROK media that talk much on KFX continuation negotiations with Indonesia, while Indonesian media even MinDef sources quiet on this, considering that the negotiations being done in Jakarta.

Komisi I-Minister of DAPA Korea Selatan Bahas Kerja Sama bidang Pertahanan

engan Minister of DAPA Korsel membahas seputar kerja sama pertahanan, di antaranya progress pengembangan pesawat tempur (KFX/IFX) dan pembuatan kapal selam melalui kontrak kerja sama PT PAL dengan perusahaan produsen asal Korea Selatan. "Ini merupakan kunjungan kedua Menteri Gang Eun Ho ke...

www.dpr.go.id

Even ROK MinDef come to Commission 1 of Indonesian Parliament talking on Indonesia - ROK defense Co-op. Clearly they are looking as much as possible of Political Lobby. Knowing well whatever the decision, it will derived more on Political will to rather then just financial and users/AF need.

There's Political will and there's budget reality. Both always has to find balance, but again in Indonesia as I have mentioned before since Soekarno's and Soeharto's time, it's always "Political" interest will that become main drivers. Users/TNI needs/preference always in the end in Back Seat as consideration factor.