Russia to get SU-35 by 2011

Haavarla

Haavarla

Active Member
HKSDU said:
tu-22m3 little hints that russia wanted to offer.

Russia to sell strategic bomber planes to China - Pravda.Ru

Russia to offer TU-95 & TU-22M bombers to China

got more links but that should be sufficient
Click to expand...


Listen HKSDU.

Pravda.Ru clearly got things wrong in these article..
I'm not the one to claim who's Russian new sites got most credibilities.

But perhaps our Russian friend on this forum could answer this?

There are two issue that speaks against exporting ANY fighter to China:

1.
If China order a batch of 100 or more, then they bloddy well have to pay an BIG depositum in advance..
Russian have grown a little smarter since last Chinese-Russian fighter deal.

2.
The order have to be of some quantities.



Thanks
 
H

HKSDU

New Member
Haavarla said:
Listen HKSDU.

Pravda.Ru clearly got things wrong in these article..
I'm not the one to claim who's Russian new sites got most credibilities.

But perhaps our Russian friend on this forum could answer this?

There are two issue that speaks against exporting ANY fighter to China:

1.
If China order a batch of 100 or more, then they bloddy well have to pay an BIG depositum in advance..
Russian have grown a little smarter since last Chinese-Russian fighter deal.

2.
The order have to be of some quantities.



Thanks
Click to expand...
fairenough, some others that back this claim.
International Assessment and Strategy Center > Research > China’s “New” Bomber
single - The Jamestown Foundation[tt_news]=27495
http://www.nautilus.org/aesnet/2005/FEB0905/Japan_Focus_Russian_oil.pdf

I dont get what the big reaction about China getting Tu-22M3 is about anyway. US being angered over the possible sale, really Russia wouldn't care what the US thought anyway, Russia isnt has no arms embargo to China. Also in 2005, if it did get the Tu-22M3 whats the use they had nothing to arm it with then anyway, its LACM was still in development phase. Im talking about then not now. Its mostly fear of Tu-22M3= threat. But firstly you need something to arm it with. During 2005, Russia needed funding for its military and projects, and retiring its Tu-22M3 so why waste an airframe, when you can sell it? The 2005 Exercises they said it was demonstrating China its inventory for sale, know this part wasn't to clear about. But 2005 Russia and now is different.

Whats the big hype if Russia did say yes backages ago, couldve been just couple or one Tu-22M3 for sale, not enough to effectively threaten carrier battle group anyway. China has H-6 despite being payload of 9 tonnes compared to 20 tonnes of Tu-22M3 they can afford to produce more. Its range may be about 1000-1500km less but still its enough for Tawain Scenario and even Japan. My thought is that its just more of a fear cause its an Tu-22M3 just its presence rather than its capabilities. Not trying to start a pissing contest on anyone just to make it clear, just putting some input into this thread.
 
S

SkolZkiy

New Member
Listen guy that's my last post for this topic.
You are talking not about 90-s but about 2005 year and I can say to you last time - at least from 2000 year there were NO offers of Tu-22M3. You are comparing 90-s and the beginning of the 21st century - don't compare Putin and Eltsin =) Even in 90s nobody could sell these bombers to china because US had much influence on Russia and they have no any wish China to have such weapon.

As you know - one fu..en journalist wtite some foolish things, than another copypaste this article and says that that journalist said that. and so on. They copypaste each other. Mikhailov joked and that's all. Russian Generals often speak not following readymade speaches. Sometimes they can say unseriously very seriuos things.

There is no creditable newsmakers in Russia and in the world - that's my opinion. Everybody lie and say only what he needs or what he was paid for. I read news on several sites.
Lenta.ru - Don't take into consideration their own thoughts or analyses, only news.
RIAN.ru - pro-western site
Moscow Times - governmental mostly
Russian Newspaper - official newspaper of russian givernment.
And each time I always try to read the original source.
Arm-tass.su - good site for military fact.
 
Feanor

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Just a heads up Jamestown Foundation is a rabidly anti-Russian site. It's intelligent and can be an interesting read, but is a very bad source for insider info on Russia.

Do try to remain civil guys. The possibility of a deal involving either the Tu-22M3 or the Tu-95 are close to 0. I can see potential transfer of a few airframes for technological study, possibly partial technology transfer. However the existing Tu-22M3 are not scheduled to be retired any time soon. There are few/no spare aiframes around to the best of my knowledge. The production line for them is long closed. And China has not expressed any interest in purchasing them. Guys please stop beating a dead horse. The deal, for significant balance of power questions, was never on the table.
 
C

citicrab

New Member
Feanor said:
Just a heads up Jamestown Foundation is a rabidly anti-Russian site. It's intelligent and can be an interesting read, but is a very bad source for insider info on Russia.


"anti-Russian": most of the time it equals anti-current regime. I can not think of any group that was consistently "anti-Russian" through the Brezhnev-Gorbachev-Yeltsin-Putin/Medvedev rein. Am not sure those labels should be used in this forum - if a source is a "bad source for insider info on Russia", it's useful to know, irrespective of perceived ideological stance.
Click to expand...
 
S

SkolZkiy

New Member
But I think that Ukraine could sell them - they retired several Tu-22M3. I hope that those AC are totally destroyed
 
Feanor

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
citicrab said:
"anti-Russian": most of the time it equals anti-current regime. I can not think of any group that was consistently "anti-Russian" through the Brezhnev-Gorbachev-Yeltsin-Putin/Medvedev rein. Am not sure those labels should be used in this forum - if a source is a "bad source for insider info on Russia", it's useful to know, irrespective of perceived ideological stance.
Click to expand...
Read the Eurasian Daily Monitor thoroughly, and you will see distinct attempts to paint Russia as the new "evil empire" rising from the ashes of the USSR. Their shortcoming is the fact that they distinctly lack an understanding of internal processes within Russia and instead try to either grasp at straws or simply try to analyze the foreign policy in a detached manner. They typically also contain factual erorrs. Their secondary flaw is of course that they have an agenda. They're not presenting honest analysis. They're presenting a one-sided bias, and one of limited factual accuracy at that. Hence why I am wary to rely on information provided by them, especially on an issue such as this.

This is exactly the kind of situation where their usefullness runs out. Their bias prevents them from doing an internal analysis that would clearly point to the imporbability, if not direct impossibility, of the sale/transfer of any strategic or long-range bombers from Russia to China.
 
Haavarla

Haavarla

Active Member
Salty Dog said:
Interesting photo set, thanks. From the fire damage, it does appear the majority of the Su-35 airframe is still metal vice composite.
Click to expand...

I was thinking about the same thing..

How can one tell by looking at those photos?
Should the rudders or tailfins have melted away completely if it where made of composite?



Thanks
 
Haavarla

Haavarla

Active Member
Feanor said:
Any news of a replacement prototype?
Click to expand...

No nothing.

But i frankly don't think there will be any more prototypes.
The next bort "905" Flanker, will be a pre-production or serial production for the RuAF.

Why?
Cause the 160 test flight mission are very soon to be completed with the two remaining "01" & "02" prototypes.



Thanks
 
Last edited:
C

Crusader2000

Banned Member
Haavarla said:
No nothing.

But i frankly don't think there will be any more prototypes.
The next bort "05" Flanker, will be a pre-production or serial production for the RuAF.

Why?
Cause the 160 test flight mission are very soon to be completed with the two remaining "01" & "02" prototypes.



Thanks
Click to expand...
Yet, the Russian Air Force hasn't officially ordered the Su-35 as of yet.........
 
Haavarla

Haavarla

Active Member
A little something on the Su-35 front:

Russian Sukhoi Reinforces Domestic Military Platform

Jun 21, 2009





By Douglas Barrie

While Russia's military elite have already seen the prototype - or perhaps prototypes - of the air force's nextgeneration heavy fighter, the aircraft will likely only make its public debut after first flight, if tradition is followed.

Senior Russian government and military leaders continue to insist first flight will be this year. Up to three prototypes are thought to be in various stages of final assembly at the Sukhoi manufacturing site in Komsomolsk-on-Amur.

The Russian air force's fighter fleet replacement strategy in the near to medium term is built around two Sukhoi programs: the Su-27SM2 (Su-35) development of the Flanker and the T-50 design to meet its fifth-generation fighter project, known as PAK FA.

MiG, having lost out to Sukhoi to develop a replacement to the former's canceled fifth-generation effort, known as MFI, has been working on a medium fighter concept, the lightweight multirole frontal aircraft (LMFS).

MiG officials have argued that while the PAK FA would replace the Su-27 Flanker, the air force will not be in a position to procure it in sufficient numbers to replace the MiG-29 Fulcrum as well. The LMFS was intended as a successor, with potentially broader export appeal than the PAK FA.

The Russian government gave Mikhail Pogosyan, long associated with Sukhoi, the challenging task of trying to sort out an ailing MiG at the end of last year.

One outcome of this move, however, is that LMFS appears to have been put on the back burner. Insiders at MiG say the LMFS project has not been included in the list of company priorities approved by Pogosyan, who also remains the general director of Sukhoi. In the nearer term, MiG has also been pressing the air force to order the MiG-35, though the status of such a purchase remains uncertain.

Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin was shown the T-50 in May during a visit to the Komsomolsk site. He took the opportunity of the trip to confirm that the air force will procure the upgraded Flanker. Company officials suggest 48 of the Su-27SM2 will be delivered through 2015.

The Su-27SM2, known for export as the Su-35, is viewed by many in the West as the near-term high-end platform against which their own capabilities are to be measured.

U.S. Air Force Lt. Gen. Daniel J. Darnell, deputy chief of staff for air, space and information operations, suggests that the Su-35 is "equal or superior" to the F-15. Meanwhile, the RAND Corp. characterizes the latest generation of the Su-27 as "not your father's Flanker."

The first prototype of the Su-27SM2, No. 901, was shown at the 2007 Moscow air show (MAKS), with the aircraft's NIIP Irbis passive electronically scanned array already fitted. A second prototype, No. 902, is also in flight tests, though the third, No. 904, was destroyed during fast taxi trials prior to flight.

The latest iteration of the Flanker will provide the Russian air force with a multirole fighter until the PAK FA eventually enters service. The purchase of 48 aircraft would allow two wings to be equipped with the type. It will also provide a platform for the development of systems and weapons intended to enter service with the PAK FA.

After stagnating throughout the 1990s and into the early part of this decade, there is renewed emphasis on the development of future air-to-air and tactical air-to-surface systems, though the extent of any actual progress has yet to be made public. An absence of funding may be why much of the work is picking up on programs that languished during the '90s.

The Russian air force's backing will bolster the type's credibility in the export arena.

Russia was pitching the Su-35 at the Brazilian fighter competition, but it did not make the cut. China and India remain potential buyers, though the former is developing indigenous upgrade programs for the Flanker in the form of the J-11B and two-seat J-11BS.

The Russian government is trying to ensure the long-term viability of its aerospace sector through establishment of the Unified Aircraft Corp. (UAC) with the fixed wing military capability increasingly built around Sukhoi. The T-50 and the Su-27SM2 and Su-34 developments are tying up company resources, both in terms of funding and experienced personnel.

UAC CEO Alexey Fyodorov, former head of the Irkut manufacturing plant, has confirmed on numerous occasions that there are ambitions to develop a light fighter complement to the PAK FA. The priority for the moment, however, is the PAK FA.

It is highly debatable whether the air force will be in a position to replace its Su-27s with the PAK FA on anything approaching a one-to-one rate, not to mention also replacing its Fulcrum fleet with the same type.

Whether the option of a Su-27SM2 and PAK FA fighter fleet mix might be viewed as an alternative to a genuine medium and heavy fighter fleet also remains to be ascertained.



Russian Sukhoi Reinforces Domestic Military Platform | AVIATION WEEK


A fair assesment By Douglas Barrie i think.



Thanks
 
C

Crusader2000

Banned Member
Haavarla said:
A little something on the Su-35 front:

Russian Sukhoi Reinforces Domestic Military Platform

Jun 21, 2009





By Douglas Barrie

While Russia's military elite have already seen the prototype - or perhaps prototypes - of the air force's nextgeneration heavy fighter, the aircraft will likely only make its public debut after first flight, if tradition is followed.

Senior Russian government and military leaders continue to insist first flight will be this year. Up to three prototypes are thought to be in various stages of final assembly at the Sukhoi manufacturing site in Komsomolsk-on-Amur.

The Russian air force's fighter fleet replacement strategy in the near to medium term is built around two Sukhoi programs: the Su-27SM2 (Su-35) development of the Flanker and the T-50 design to meet its fifth-generation fighter project, known as PAK FA.

MiG, having lost out to Sukhoi to develop a replacement to the former's canceled fifth-generation effort, known as MFI, has been working on a medium fighter concept, the lightweight multirole frontal aircraft (LMFS).

MiG officials have argued that while the PAK FA would replace the Su-27 Flanker, the air force will not be in a position to procure it in sufficient numbers to replace the MiG-29 Fulcrum as well. The LMFS was intended as a successor, with potentially broader export appeal than the PAK FA.

The Russian government gave Mikhail Pogosyan, long associated with Sukhoi, the challenging task of trying to sort out an ailing MiG at the end of last year.

One outcome of this move, however, is that LMFS appears to have been put on the back burner. Insiders at MiG say the LMFS project has not been included in the list of company priorities approved by Pogosyan, who also remains the general director of Sukhoi. In the nearer term, MiG has also been pressing the air force to order the MiG-35, though the status of such a purchase remains uncertain.

Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin was shown the T-50 in May during a visit to the Komsomolsk site. He took the opportunity of the trip to confirm that the air force will procure the upgraded Flanker. Company officials suggest 48 of the Su-27SM2 will be delivered through 2015.

The Su-27SM2, known for export as the Su-35, is viewed by many in the West as the near-term high-end platform against which their own capabilities are to be measured.

U.S. Air Force Lt. Gen. Daniel J. Darnell, deputy chief of staff for air, space and information operations, suggests that the Su-35 is "equal or superior" to the F-15. Meanwhile, the RAND Corp. characterizes the latest generation of the Su-27 as "not your father's Flanker."

The first prototype of the Su-27SM2, No. 901, was shown at the 2007 Moscow air show (MAKS), with the aircraft's NIIP Irbis passive electronically scanned array already fitted. A second prototype, No. 902, is also in flight tests, though the third, No. 904, was destroyed during fast taxi trials prior to flight.

The latest iteration of the Flanker will provide the Russian air force with a multirole fighter until the PAK FA eventually enters service. The purchase of 48 aircraft would allow two wings to be equipped with the type. It will also provide a platform for the development of systems and weapons intended to enter service with the PAK FA.

After stagnating throughout the 1990s and into the early part of this decade, there is renewed emphasis on the development of future air-to-air and tactical air-to-surface systems, though the extent of any actual progress has yet to be made public. An absence of funding may be why much of the work is picking up on programs that languished during the '90s.

The Russian air force's backing will bolster the type's credibility in the export arena.

Russia was pitching the Su-35 at the Brazilian fighter competition, but it did not make the cut. China and India remain potential buyers, though the former is developing indigenous upgrade programs for the Flanker in the form of the J-11B and two-seat J-11BS.

The Russian government is trying to ensure the long-term viability of its aerospace sector through establishment of the Unified Aircraft Corp. (UAC) with the fixed wing military capability increasingly built around Sukhoi. The T-50 and the Su-27SM2 and Su-34 developments are tying up company resources, both in terms of funding and experienced personnel.

UAC CEO Alexey Fyodorov, former head of the Irkut manufacturing plant, has confirmed on numerous occasions that there are ambitions to develop a light fighter complement to the PAK FA. The priority for the moment, however, is the PAK FA.

It is highly debatable whether the air force will be in a position to replace its Su-27s with the PAK FA on anything approaching a one-to-one rate, not to mention also replacing its Fulcrum fleet with the same type.

Whether the option of a Su-27SM2 and PAK FA fighter fleet mix might be viewed as an alternative to a genuine medium and heavy fighter fleet also remains to be ascertained.



Russian Sukhoi Reinforces Domestic Military Platform | AVIATION WEEK


A fair assesment By Douglas Barrie i think.



Thanks
Click to expand...


Well, maybe Russia should have considered producing a Stealthy F-35 Type. Which, could be had in far greater numbers and a lower price.....:confused:
 
G

Grand Danois

Entertainer
Haavarla said:
Meanwhile, the RAND Corp. characterizes the latest generation of the Su-27 as "not your father's Flanker."
Click to expand...
The guy at RAND Corp. who said this was not associated with the fighter or combat eval depts of RAND in any way and is in fact not employed by RAND anymore. ;)
 
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