The Arjun Tank

[niteshkjain]

so, you mean to say that for churning out a good technology without having any infrastructure or any previous experience if some organization takes a long time (can you please define the word LONG TIME) then please give references from other countries about how much time they have taken to build the same quality of tank. Then it will be good. Anyway end of the day result matters. Arjun is out and will be inducted in to armed forces. It doesnt reflect any way weakness in defence industry.

 

[Titanium]

Do modern Chinese tanks come equipped with a auto trackers and thermals, where did they get this techology from, modular armor package for turret layout.

What are you implying here?? that Cinese would not comup with this essentail Technology in MBT!! and they need to resort to.....

There is your french connection. I guess I brought China into this discussion to show what a country will do to get their hands on tank design layout and components the shitty way but on occasion is willing to buy some items needed when it benifits them versus how DRDO is willing to be up front and pay for items that are needed the honest way.

Could you be little clear in your motive..... let us know what is your opinion chinese stole the FCS from poor france??

You better back up your wild allegations.

 

[Titanium]

I am not Indian but a round eye American who does have a open mind when it comes to other countries and cultures including China, did I attack China???, stating that they do steal and purchase military technology, it is a known fact.

No one is interested wheter you are an indian or not.........whether you have round or sqeak eye.

But, we do have an issue when you say China has stolen technology....which you have to expalain.

 

[Titanium]

I do not get pissed off but annoyed when people like you throw one liners in a topic out of the blue to piss other people off, but hey Chino you have even gone as far as to try and intimidate and belittle other forum contributors like you did to @Rock45 on another topic. I feel bad for recommending that he join this site because of people like you.

At least India can build and afford tanks and they do not have to resort to cheap hand me downs. OOPS!

Talk about hypocracy of highest order.......:nutkick

 

[eckherl]

so, you mean to say that for churning out a good technology without having any infrastructure or any previous experience if some organization takes a long time (can you please define the word LONG TIME) then please give references from other countries about how much time they have taken to build the same quality of tank. Then it will be good. Anyway end of the day result matters. Arjun is out and will be inducted in to armed forces. It doesnt reflect any way weakness in defence industry.

Good point - there are plenty of tanks out there that end up going thru a long proto type and testing process before vehicles even get fielded, if they ever really do get fielded. U.S AGS system is just one good example of this. Bottom line is that DRDO has stuck it out and they have in fact learned alot of valuable information in regards to the process from start to finish and they are finally picking up some Arjun orders.

 

[eckherl]

What are you implying here?? that Cinese would not comup with this essentail Technology in MBT!! and they need to resort to.....


Could you be little clear in your motive..... let us know what is your opinion chinese stole the FCS from poor france??

You better back up your wild allegations.

Well gee I guess that I am in fact implying that China has to resort to misappropiation of other countries technologies, and do in fact on a occasion do have the goodness in their hearts to purchase it. Did I ever state specifically that China actually stole anything from that poor old country that you call France. There is a connection/partnership between France and Ukraine as to where technology has been passed on to China. Think about it

 

[Chino]

At least India can build and afford tanks and they do not have to resort to cheap hand me downs. OOPS!

Huh?

Most of the world started with cheap hand-me-downs including India, Israel, even European countries during WW2. You want to be specific about what is this other agenda you want to get into play here?

Why keep dragging other unrelated topics into the picture?

If the point I raised about the "Arjun taking too long to develop" not worthy of debate, then just chill out. No need to get so emotional, no personal offense intended to anyone - especially you - in the first place.

This is a forum, and if my opinions don't align with yours, reply calmly and rationally.

And everyone please leave race issues out.

 

[eckherl]

No one is interested wheter you are an indian or not.........whether you have round or sqeak eye.

But, we do have an issue when you say China has stolen technology....which you have to expalain.

OHH goody, goody gum drops, I will sleep a lot easier now that no one is concerned if I have round round eye or the dreaded speak eye.nfloorl: Just think - all this started because of your lame ass remark in regards to the Arjun that you made, and you do not even have a clue on what you are talking about. I just read some of your other rubbish that you decided to contribute on the New Turkish Tank Design forum, how ironic that you decided to bash DRDO on that thread also. And do not sit back and think that I have some hidden agenda against China, you do not have a clue on what I do for a living and how much experience I have working with China to assist them in certain technologies including building facilities in China for them, (again) I stated that China is willing to get their hands on technology even if it means stealing it from other countries, (again) I will state that most countries go the same route including the U.S, this is nothing new. I used China on purpose for my example to see what your hidden agenda is and it came out quite clear, now if you cannot add some substance in-regards to DRDO`s Arjun tank project except flaming one liners with smiley faces with protruding tongues then do not post here. If you got a issue on what I have just stated then PM me or take it to the mods.

 

[Feanor]

Just thought I'd mention my take on the issue. The Indian army has essentially purchase 1657 T-90S tanks. That replaces the bulk of it's tank arsenal. Which means that serial production of the Arjun will be on a notably more modest scale.

And also, my apologies if someone already pointed this out, but the Arjun takes a 4-man crew iirc. The T-90 and T-72 take 3-man crews. This means that replacing T-72 or T-90 with Arjuns would require either an expansion in personell or reduction in total vehicles.

 

[eckherl]

Just thought I'd mention my take on the issue. The Indian army has essentially purchase 1657 T-90S tanks. That replaces the bulk of it's tank arsenal. Which means that serial production of the Arjun will be on a notably more modest scale.

And also, my apologies if someone already pointed this out, but the Arjun takes a 4-man crew iirc. The T-90 and T-72 take 3-man crews. This means that replacing T-72 or T-90 with Arjuns would require either an expansion in personell or reduction in total vehicles.

I do not even know how much of a issue or concern is inregards to 3 man versus 4 man tank crews with the Indian Army, they have operated MBTs in the past that had a requirement for 4 men. Maybe @Kams could shed some light on how India`s army feels about this. You may think that I am el loco but what about placing a bustle mounted auto loader inside of Arjun, there is a enough room.

 

[Feanor]

Well if they replaced their entire tank park with Arjuns it would reduce the MBT numbers by 25%. That seems like a pretty major issue.

 

[nevidimka]

Hi, the arjun looks very much like the german leopard A3. Probably because it was started quite some time ago. But i'm wondering why do they not develop an add on sloped aurmour like the latest German leapord's? Or if this is in the development?

 

[eckherl]

Well if they replaced their entire tank park with Arjuns it would reduce the MBT numbers by 25%. That seems like a pretty major issue.

I do not see that happening, India does seem content with the T-90S, Arjun orders will come in small batches for the time being it seems. And I do not know if India would view adding additional crew members to their armor ranks as a major issue, maybe one of our fellow forum participants from India can answer that a whole lot better than I can.

 

[eckherl]

Hi, the arjun looks very much like the german leopard A3. Probably because it was started quite some time ago. But i'm wondering why do they not develop an add on sloped aurmour like the latest German leapord's? Or if this is in the development?

Maybe DRDO is already looking into this. But it would require DRDO to relocate the gunners ballistic shield housing and sights, thus a major turret design change.

 

[Titanium]

: Just think - all this started because of your lame ass remark in regards to the Arjun that you made, and you do not even have a clue on what you are talking about. I just read some of your other rubbish that you decided to contribute on the New Turkish Tank Design forum, how ironic that you decided to bash DRDO on that thread also.

let me get this straight, you are pissed off coz I remarked something on DRDO in some other thread.....yopu got your Goat . How sensitive of you....that being US citizen.........is that what you claimed:nutkick

And do not sit back and think that I have some hidden agenda against China, you do not have a clue on what I do for a living and how much experience I have working with China to assist them in certain technologies including building facilities in China for them, (again) I stated that China is willing to get their hands on technology even if it means stealing it from other countries, (again) I will state that most countries go the same route including the U.S, this is nothing new.

Oh dear throw some more ...your high and mighty contact and reference for us to be impressed..... :

I used China on purpose for my example to see what your hidden agenda is and it came out quite clear,

This is absolutely bombastic.....so you accused China is stealing technology.......jus to know my "Hidden agenda". How lame can you be.........get yourself something else.

now if you cannot add some substance in-regards to DRDO`s Arjun tank project except flaming one liners with smiley faces with protruding tongues then do not post here. If you got a issue on what I have just stated then PM me or take it to the mods.

It should be your pathetic attempt at China stealing technology that you cannot prove.

Accusing something unsubstantiative is called flaming and stop being a Troll.

About your dear DRDO attempt at MBT, I can put out reams here...... but why flog a dead horse.

 

[niteshkjain]

Check this link
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/aw/dti0408/index.php?startid=22

 

[eckherl]

let me get this straight, you are pissed off coz I remarked something on DRDO in some other thread.....yopu got your Goat . How sensitive of you....that being US citizen.........is that what you claimed:nutkick




Oh dear throw some more ...your high and mighty contact and reference for us to be impressed..... :



This is absolutely bombastic.....so you accused China is stealing technology.......jus to know my "Hidden agenda". How lame can you be.........get yourself something else.




It should be your pathetic attempt at China stealing technology that you cannot prove.

Accusing something unsubstantiative is called flaming and stop being a Troll.

About your dear DRDO attempt at MBT, I can put out reams here...... but why flog a dead horse.

Get over it and go play somewhere else, you do not have a clue on what you are even talking about and that is a fact, you are starting to fit the class as a troll, no one is interested in your pathetic point of views, you came onto this thread to give a flammatory remark inregards to DRDO as you also decided to bash them on the new Turkish tank thread, this you decided to do on purpose just for the satisfaction of upsetting individuals, your opinion inregards to my credentials doesn`t mean squat to me, bring something that is viable to this thread or move on. if you want to start a thread on China`s military technology know how then start a new thread.

 

[eckherl]

Check this link
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/aw/dti0408/index.php?startid=22

Very interesting remarks inregards to the T-95, thanks for sharing.

 

[Feanor]

I know I'm probably not the most experienced person in the area, but I would take any news regarding the T-95 with a grain of salt. There was a claim made a while ago that the T-95 would be presented publicly. This has yet to happen. There was speculation that Saudi Arabia was negotiating to buy it, but instead a helicopter deal materialized. There was also an announcement that a new tank would be produced for the armed forces starting in 2009. Given that project 640 by Omsk Transmash is dead, we're left to assume that this new tank will be the T-95, but again no public demonstrations have been made, not even images (beyond speculations and artists guesswork) have been made available to my knowledge.

On a side note the magazine you linked to looks very interesting. Could you link to the home page where we would be able to view other issues of the publication?

 

[eckherl]

I know I'm probably not the most experienced person in the area, but I would take any news regarding the T-95 with a grain of salt. There was a claim made a while ago that the T-95 would be presented publicly. This has yet to happen. There was speculation that Saudi Arabia was negotiating to buy it, but instead a helicopter deal materialized. There was also an announcement that a new tank would be produced for the armed forces starting in 2009. Given that project 640 by Omsk Transmash is dead, we're left to assume that this new tank will be the T-95, but again no public demonstrations have been made, not even images (beyond speculations and artists guesswork) have been made available to my knowledge.

On a side note the magazine you linked to looks very interesting. Could you link to the home page where we would be able to view other issues of the publication?

Well - according to Russian military sources we are supposed to see something new in the year 2009. I am not holding my breath either, but you never know. Saudi Arabia did in fact test T-90s in their country, @extern posted some pretty good photos that are the real deal, you can find them in the Saudi Arabia tests T-95 thread.