Aliph Ahmed
Banned Member
Just wanted to add one more thing: Even the Tracks on current Arjun Tank are not made in India but are imported and work 100%.
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The Arjun Tank
- Thread starter Jade
- Start date
:Hmm - Arjun must be able perform at the same level or actually surpass the performance levels of the T-90S for the Indian military to start out buying small numbers at the current trend. So what is the big deal that they have to currently look abroad for some of the Arjun components, even Russian tank TI sights are so subpar that they have to currently rely on France for their sights.
Is India leaning towards a particular company.
Well Sagem/Thales should have a cakewalk! However you never know when Israel is involved!
IA is not happy with Polish supplied FCS (Drawa T)for an earlier upgradation program(Project Rhino). Here they had used El-op supplied T sight.
Upgradation will involve improved powerpack (1000 Hp), Improved gun control/stabilization from BEL (Arjun derived), FCS with Night fighting, Fire detection and suppression system (Arjun derived), Navigation (Arjun derived), ERA (DRDO) etc.
Approximately 260 improved T-72s with Polish firecontrol/ERA are in service.
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Yes, TI sights one of the weakness of russian technic. But no nation can be best at everything, or even "decent" at everything . USA, Germany, China or whoever is no exception here. The question here is not "some" Arjun components. The question here is what "indigenious" Arjun have higher share of imported components than "foreign" T-90.
As for Arjun.. i indeed think it can perform at about same (or even slighly better) level as T-90S. Although it is not clear with reliability (long term) and maintenance cost. Not clear with armor composition. Not clear with gun reliability, barrel cost and life.
wake up dude, thts ancient history.Just wanted to add one more thing: Even the Tracks on current Arjun Tank are not made in India but are imported and work 100%.
the tracks are produced now by defence major L&T in india. as for the other parts also they can easily be manufactured inhouse if a larger order comes along .
watch the video ull be impressed, i gues u can understand hindi
Thats who I would go with, the Russians seem content with their TIs. Also it looks like more and more of India`s government sponsored and private military industry is gaining in some of the design and emplamentation decisions for current and future weapons projects, that is good to see.
The arjun has 60-65% components that are designed and manufactured in India, the only reason they are not producing the remaining 40% in india is beacause its cheaper to import these than to set up manufacturing units for a small no. of tanks. also it reduces the quality control issues............central idea is cost effectiveness
if a larger order comes along manufacturing units can be put in place.
As for reliability, the arjun mbt is the MOST extensively tested tank in the world and it surpasses not only t-90 but many western tanks in terms of barrel life and maintenence.
all these facts are easily available .... i read this on bharat rakshak.com
I think the Indian Army has taken cost effectiveness and Quality control issues
to the 100% level and hence the import of 1700+ T-90's instead of Arjun:Can you be more specific on why you feel that the Arjun shows a sign of weakness in India`s defense industry when practically everything found on Chinese MBTs have been copied with stolen or purchased (recently) technologies.
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About Arjun, we can debate as we are debating for last two decades the resourcefulness of DRDO.
But it is royal of you to say Chinese have stolen or purchased Technology ...... ..from whom?
The comment was made for Chino, but I will be more than happy to explain where China has ventured for tank technologies.
Countries China has stolen or purchased MBT technologies is listed as follows:
Russia - mainguns, vehicle layout, FCS and armor
Ukraine - FCS, armor, compact engine design
United kingdom - mainguns
France - FCS, modular armor
Germany - Engine designs
Let me add also that stealing or purchasing other countries technologies is practiced by most everyone, so in a sense China is not doing anything out of the norm.
If you want to debate how resourceful DRDO is that is okay, but to send out comments that you very well know has nothing more than a negative aspect and will start pissing people off is not adding to the discussion.
See my dear, t you don't need to stole and buy technology twice over. This complex you got, that Chinee are dumb and unable to comeup with anything of their own. Why do think you need engine from two sources, when they are License producing MTU. Is this stolen tech for you or Outright purchase......it is standard international practice, why should you have bone against China on this ????
FCS from france.............do please let us know
, and don't forget how they stole Armour and main guns from russia....ohh tech. Blueprints maybe you are referringnfloorl: .
Then why have you bringing only China here.........do you have some axe against China.........when the discussion has anything to do with China.
This is the same thing you are spreading with China syndrome.....
Duh....
I'm not from China.
Why this sudden attack on China (as if I am expected to defend it?)
You mean the Arjun having taken decades to build is not showing up the weaknesses of the Indian defence industry?
You're the only one getting really pissed off so please chill out so that maybe we can have a discussion. But if you;re just looking for a fight then forget it.
You're not even Indian. And if you are, maybe you should question why it took a country full of brilliant scientists deacdes to build a tank? Something is wrong - and the earlier you admit it, the earlier you can begin to fix the problem.
Being defensive and attacking China ... does ... what?
In case of any misunderstanding, I was referring to the length of time taken for development, not the eventual quality of the Arjun.Hope we will listen some good news that no defects, and the numbers will be increased from 124 to 500-600
Duh - you are not Chinese, oops my out most apology goes out to you for assuming that. I do not see why you and some others look at the Arjun as a failure in the Indian defense industry, they have dealt with a government and army that has been pro Russian design for quite some time now and DRDO has been fighting a uphill battle now for quite some time, does this mean that the Arjun has been built from perfection at the initial prototype phase, of course not, all new designs will have growing pains to go thru, I think DRDO should be commended for sticking it out. I do not get pissed off but annoyed when people like you throw one liners in a topic out of the blue to piss other people off, but hey Chino you have even gone as far as to try and intimidate and belittle other forum contributors like you did to @Rock45 on another topic. I feel bad for recommending that he join this site because of people like you. I am not Indian but a round eye American who does have a open mind when it comes to other countries and cultures including China, did I attack China???, stating that they do steal and purchase military technology, it is a known fact.
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Did I ever state that China is dumb and that I have a hard on out for them so to speak, I just gave you some facts about their tank building capabilities, I also stated that every country that has a passion for building MBTs does in fact the same thing, so why pick on DRDO.See my dear, t you don't need to stole and buy technology twice over. This complex you got, that Chinee are dumb and unable to comeup with anything of their own. Why do think you need engine from two sources, when they are License producing MTU. Is this stolen tech for you or Outright purchase......it is standard international practice, why should you have bone against China on this ????
FCS from france.............do please let us know
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Then why have you bringing only China here.........do you have some axe against China.........when the discussion has anything to do with China.
This is the same thing you are spreading with China syndrome.....
Do modern Chinese tanks come equipped with a auto trackers and thermals, where did they get this techology from, modular armor package for turret layout. There is your french connection. I guess I brought China into this discussion to show what a country will do to get their hands on tank design layout and components the shitty way but on occasion is willing to buy some items needed when it benifits them versus how DRDO is willing to be up front and pay for items that are needed the honest way.
At least India can build and afford tanks and they do not have to resort to cheap hand me downs. OOPS!