The Arjun Tank

[funtz]

The Mechanised columns included 5 Armoured Regiment with T-90 Tanks, 10 Armoured Regiment with T-72 Tanks, 43 Armoured Regiment with MBT Arjun, 153 Medium Regiment with 155 MM Field Howitzer, 333 Missile Group with Prithvi Missile, 514 Air Defence Regiment with Tanguska Mounts, and 627 (I) Mechanised AD Brigade with improved reporter radar.

That is from 2003 a small report of Army Day-2003 from the ministry of defence website.
http://mod.nic.in/samachar/feb15-03/html/ch11.htm

Although that has nothing to do with induction, mostly a deployment for operational tests under the elusive "combat conditions"

 

[Aliph Ahmed]

That is from 2003 a small report of Army Day-2003 from the ministry of defence website.
http://mod.nic.in/samachar/feb15-03/html/ch11.htm

Although that has nothing to do with induction, mostly a deployment for operational tests under the elusive "combat conditions"

The link doesnt say anything different from what I have been saying all along. It brings us back to the same assumption(based on the fact on lack of reilable news link) that no Arjun is deployed as of today.

If it is then do enlighten me and support with a link.

and please cut down on the talk. Stick with facts and figures supported by links. Give a positive image of this forum.

 

[funtz]

So these quote of yours was based on in depth analysis of intelligence reports

If that is really the case then I wonder why are they being deployed on Northern India where there are least chances of any battle.

Right now they are with 43rd regiment. It is no where near Pakistani border.

I am not going to talk further on Arjun. It will be a waste of my time and breathe talking on something I consider an ambitious program gone soar drastically.

I dont know how many but I do know that they are not being deployed nowhere near the Pakistani border

The link doesnt say anything different from what I have been saying all along. It brings us back to the same assumption(based on the fact on lack of reilable news link) that no Arjun is deployed as of today.

If it is then do enlighten me and support with a link.

and please cut down on the talk. Stick with facts and figures supported by links. Give a positive image of this forum.

Now you should try to be more mature about it, all your guesstimation about the location of the 43rd armour location somewhere in north india and not near the pakistan border are to be considered a truth, while what ever others say is obviously malicious in nature, i remeber wathcing kids who use same arguments in school playfields.

Try to more considerate to people, and allow logic to determine conversations, everyone makes mistakes its in human nature.

Arjun MBT was deployed as i said "mostly for operational tests under combat conditions.

The Chronology of Development is as under :-

Development of first prototype - November 1983
Development and production of next - November 1983 to
1992
Series prototypes (12 Numbers)
Development and production of Pre - 1992 to 1995
Production Series (PPS tanks) (12 numbers)
Production of another three PPS tanks 1995-1996
Rolling out of five Limited Series Production - 07 August 2004
(LSP) tanks
Five LSP tanks handed over to 43 Armoured - February 2005”
Regiment

After we took over the production from the DRDO first year we decided to deliver five tanks. These tanks were delivered last year. This year we are delivering 15 tanks more. Now 14 tanks which we had promised are ready."

“Total requirements of Army is about 3500 tanks. Army has placed an indent for manufacture of 124 MBT Arjun. Heavy Vehicle Factory (HVF) Avadi, a constituent unit of Ordnance Factory Board (OFB), has set up exclusively for Main Battle Tank (MBT), Arjun an assembly bay that has just started functioning. Once the activity picks up speed in this facility, HVF is confident to produce 50 Arjun tanks per year from the year 2009 onwards subject to continuous requirement by the user. T-90 tank is also being produced in the same factory under a separate production line.”

Source: http://164.100.24.208/ls/CommitteeR/Defence/16threport.pdf

Which brings me back to my earlier made comment.

That was the question eh, where in North India, answering questions with questions are you.

Well considering the immense logistical difficulty of using
:a tank that is being tested by the Army and will serve in limited numbers "as of now", placing them right up the forward positions will be a exercise in futility.

That was the point of the posts you are responding to, "field them in good numbers" so that the logistic part is managed.

And that holds true the MBT will not have any effect on anything, not with the current 5 and the 15 about to be delivered, and not with the complete package of 124.
Because that will be like driving a American chopper in Patna.

 

[Aliph Ahmed]

Try to more considerate to people, and allow logic to determine conversations, everyone makes mistakes its in human nature.

Arjun MBT was deployed as i said "mostly for operational tests under combat conditions.


Which brings me back to my earlier made comment.

And that holds true the MBT will not have any effect on anything, not with the current 5 and the 15 about to be delivered, and not with the complete package of 124.
Because that will be like driving a American chopper in Patna.

I can live with that as it is consistant with my opinion that as of today, no Arjun tank is deployed.

Thank you.

 

[Grand Danois]

Quite frankly, if you have questions or corrections you should ask them politely and discuss in a constructive manner.

Also, focusing on those strawmen on various India related threads, does not constitute appropriate behaviour and is considered trolling.

You are not the one to mete out what is appropriate conduct on the these boards.

1st warning!

...and please cut down on the talk. Stick with facts and figures supported by links. Give a positive image of this forum.

 

[Aliph Ahmed]

You are not the one to mete out what is appropriate conduct on the these boards.

1st warning!

This is not fair.

Funtz said the same thing to me too in post number 1677, Indian airforce thread. He is a senior member. He is the one who set the precedent.

I leave the rest to your best judgement. Remove my warning or give him one too.

Yes its a great feature "editing", lets one tone down on the "talk". and include more facts.

 

[Grand Danois]

This is not fair.

Funtz said the same thing to me too in post number 1677, Indian airforce thread. He is a senior member. He is the one who set the precedent.

I leave the rest to your best judgement. Remove my warning or give him one too.

This is not equivalent. You are persistent in your modus operandi and I even gave pause at the missiles thread, and waited to see if it was a consistent trait; it is permeating many of the posts you make.

So no. Small transgressions are allowed, even more so for new members. But precedent? That is a mod call.

Back to topic!

 

[funtz]

I can live with that as it is consistant with my opinion that as of today, no Arjun tank is deployed.
Thank you.

Five LSP tanks handed over to 43 Armoured - February 2005
After we took over the production from the DRDO first year we decided to deliver five tanks. These tanks were delivered last year. This year we are delivering 15 tanks more. Now 14 tanks which we had promised are ready.
Army has placed an indent for manufacture of 124 MBT Arjun. Heavy Vehicle Factory (HVF) Avadi, a constituent unit of Ordnance Factory Board (OFB), has set up exclusively for Main Battle Tank (MBT), Arjun an assembly bay that has just started functioning. Once the activity picks up speed in this facility, HVF is confident to produce 50 Arjun tanks per year from the year 2009
Out of 124 ordered for tanks by the users, only 15 tanks have been produced by the Heavy Vehicle Factory, Avadi.

Source: above cited report from April: 2007

DRDO's Heavy Vehicles Factory in Avadi has rolled out and handed over 15 tanks to the Army for evaluation.

http://bharatdefence.blogspot.com/2007/05/arjun-tanks-tested-in-ashwamedh-war.html

Right now they are with 43rd regiment. It is no where near Pakistani border.

I am not going to talk further on Arjun. It will be a waste of my time and breathe talking on something I consider an ambitious program gone soar drastically.

I find it strange that you being an old member didnt read on Arjun tank when on this very forum are more informative threads such as the following:

http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=649

Feel free to enlighten yourself.

May 03, 2007 at 0000 hrs
Regarding the performance of a squadron of 15 MBT Arjuns from the Bikaner-based 43 Armoured Regiment, General Singh said today, “We don’t want to be at a disadvantage when we are challenged. We cannot put the lives of our men in danger on account of malfunctioning of any component of the tank. The concerns will be addressed.”

http://www.indianexpress.com/story/29951.html

And where is Bikaner?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikaner_District
http://www.mapsofindia.com/maps/rajasthan/districts/bikaner.htm

Its right next to Pakistan.

If you are dissed at me for explaining my frequent habit of editing my own posts with
Yes its a great feature "editing", lets one tone down on the "talk". and include more facts.
Then I truly apologize.

Even news paper reports and online links get the information wrong many times, that is why there is general confusion about these things.

 

[Aliph Ahmed]

Source: above cited report from April: 2007

http://bharatdefence.blogspot.com/2007/05/arjun-tanks-tested-in-ashwamedh-war.html



http://www.indianexpress.com/story/29951.html

And where is Bikaner?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikaner_District
http://www.mapsofindia.com/maps/rajasthan/districts/bikaner.htm

Its right next to Pakistan.

.

So they are inducted in 43rd regiment based at Bikaner which is right next to Pakistan doesnt go far enough to conclude that the Arjun tanks are deployed as of today like the T-90s are.

 

[n21]

So they are inducted in 43rd regiment based at Bikaner which is right next to Pakistan doesnt go far enough to conclude that the Arjun tanks are deployed as of today like the T-90s are.

T-90s aren't deployed "near the Pakistani border" either. India and Pakistan are not in a standoff for such a deployment. They are at their peace time location.

As far as Arjun more than 30 tanks have been handed over to IA. IA is carrying out logistics trials for these tanks.

 

[kay_man]

T-90s aren't deployed "near the Pakistani border" either. India and Pakistan are not in a standoff for such a deployment. They are at their peace time location.

As far as Arjun more than 30 tanks have been handed over to IA. IA is carrying out logistics trials for these tanks.

yes. damn good point.

any army activity , even a harmless test excercise would jeopardise the peace talks. and that too a time when we have invited the pak navy for joint excercise.....it would be like teasing.

 

[Aliph Ahmed]

Any news on the armor of Arjun tank or is it also classified ?

 

[Waylander]

You won't find any declassified armor infos about nearly every halfway modern tank on this nice earth. Only rough guesses.

 

[Aliph Ahmed]

You won't find any declassified armor infos about nearly every halfway modern tank on this nice earth. Only rough guesses.

I guess it all depends on when and IF Indian Army gives a follow on order after the first 124 (Once supposedly indegnious Arjun requiring more then 50% foreign parts) Arjun Tanks are inducted.

How many are completed to date other then the 15? any idea ?

Also anyone know in which country are the Gun Barrel for Arjun tanks are produced as well as armor plating becasue as per the following article, India dont have technology to produce gun barrels and armor plating.

http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/ext.php?ref=http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Russia_plays_spoilsport_in_T-90S_tank_deal/articleshow/2786546.cms

 

[eckherl]

I guess it all depends on when and IF Indian Army gives a follow on order after the first 124 (Once supposedly indegnious Arjun requiring more then 50% foreign parts) Arjun Tanks are inducted.

How many are completed to date other then the 15? any idea ?

Also anyone know in which country are the Gun Barrel for Arjun tanks are produced as well as armor plating becasue as per the following article, India dont have technology to produce gun barrels and armor plating.

http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/ext.php?ref=http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Russia_plays_spoilsport_in_T-90S_tank_deal/articleshow/2786546.cms

Arjuns main gun and recoil system is made in India by DRDO. Countries that have assisted India in armor technology is classified information, but they do manufacture Arjuns armor in India. If they really wanted to know more about K-5 ERA material properties that would not be a issue.

 

[kams]

I guess it all depends on when and IF Indian Army gives a follow on order after the first 124 (Once supposedly indegnious Arjun requiring more then 50% foreign parts) Arjun Tanks are inducted.

How many are completed to date other then the 15? any idea ?

Also anyone know in which country are the Gun Barrel for Arjun tanks are produced as well as armor plating becasue as per the following article, India dont have technology to produce gun barrels and armor plating.

http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/ext.php?ref=http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Russia_plays_spoilsport_in_T-90S_tank_deal/articleshow/2786546.cms

Deleted by self...why bother, though I am very tempted post an article by Pervez Hoodbhoy.

 

[lonelytoad]

BACK TO THE TOPIC!!!

No matter how Arjun let people down, (accutually, it is not so bad, ) it is still a nice try and very important first step for Indian to set up their own manufacture capbility. Assembling, Clone, and self design, all these are neccessary progress for a country to go through before it develops its own tech and capacity. Cost price may be very high this time, but if Indian does not pay now, they will still have to purchase weapons from other countries after 20 or 30 years. The cost will be much more higher in future.

 

[Waylander]

And if one looks at other tank programs in the world it wasn't even that expensive to develop.

Germany and USA sunk alot of money into the MBT70/KPz70 project without actually building one final vehicle and spend another big bag to field the Leo II and Abrams.
Or look at the Brits with their Challi 1 which was much faster replaced by the Challi 2.
Or the French Leclerc.
All of these programs can hardly be described as cheap and fast.

 

[n21]

Arjuns main gun and recoil system is made in India by DRDO. Countries that have assisted India in armor technology is classified information, but they do manufacture Arjuns armor in India. If they really wanted to know more about K-5 ERA material properties that would not be a issue.

India had initially approached the Brits for assistance in armour development.However they refused.
Hence India decided to go alone on the armour front. The idea was similar to the Brit's Chobham armour.So much so the armour is named after the place Kanchannagar(some thing like that),similar to Chobham is the place where brits developed their armour.

Video of Arjun(the only one showing Arjun firing so far)
[ame="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3997119991218613108"]MBT ARJUN FLASHED BY DD[/ame]

It was shot by a government run agency,hence picture quality would be bad,plus some weird editing!

 

[n21]

And if one looks at other tank programs in the world it wasn't even that expensive to develop.

Germany and USA sunk alot of money into the MBT70/KPz70 project without actually building one final vehicle and spend another big bag to field the Leo II and Abrams.
Or look at the Brits with their Challi 1 which was much faster replaced by the Challi 2.
Or the French Leclerc.
All of these programs can hardly be described as cheap and fast.

The overall cost of the development program spanning the whole 2-3 decades was ... under 100 million dollars(actually less than 90 million. 100 million due to loss in dollar value in the past one year)!

India has managed to home produce 60% of the system in terms of cost.
The German engine itself cost almost 40% of the cost.
The main imported parts are Engine,transmission,thermal sights and tracks(it was initially produced in-house,however the assembly line was closed since the order was delayed.)