Hydraulic. Its suspected one of the suspension arms leaked. The Arjun uses a compressed gas in its suspension units, nitrogen if my memory serves me correct.
The Arjun Tank
- Thread starter Jade
- Start date
Most likely, it is the best for keeping out condensation. What was wrong with the gun control unit.
You cant really expect to "licence" manufacture in India such parts as TI matrix, reliable LRF, up-to date FCS, engine, etc or ? The licence "manufacturing" means in that case just assembly in best case.
Of course, Arjun is easer to modify in the future - but only in quite distant future, when India will be able to really self produce some of components. Moreover, independend and self-sufficient tank manufacturing will require much more money than already spend - and i'm not quite sure India have enouth money to support all these developments - LCA, MCA, Akash, Arjun, Bhim, etc...
This is the bane of Indian military R&D - too many projects, too little money for each...
Of course, Arjun is easer to modify in the future - but only in quite distant future, when India will be able to really self produce some of components. Moreover, independend and self-sufficient tank manufacturing will require much more money than already spend - and i'm not quite sure India have enouth money to support all these developments - LCA, MCA, Akash, Arjun, Bhim, etc...
This is the bane of Indian military R&D - too many projects, too little money for each...
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The Gun Control Unit came with some of its decks calibrated for lower temps. It was used in the exercise/s only to have it shut off. Then sent back, reopened, and discovered that the factory settings were messed up. Recalibrated for 60 deg celsius, and everything went Ok after that.
You are mistaken. The license manufacturing came with detailed transfer of tech. India is getting TOT for thermals for instance, for even its T-72 upgrade amd can also manufacture its own using COTS mil grade components available from suppliers from a "friendly" nation. Considering orders easily span over a thousand tanks, it works out for both sides.
India already produces most of the critical components, bar the Engine and transmission, and thermal imager.
Correct, but things have been on an upswing for some time, with more realistic funds marked for each project, thanks to the booming Indian economy.
here is another article from the colonel,i have his autocar edition ,in which he drove the arjun.
here check out this link and article:
http://www.business-standard.com/ec...nm=3&subLeft=1&chklogin=N&autono=297565&tab=r
Arjun tank: Building a defence industrial baseAjai Shukla / New Delhi September 11, 2007The sprawling premises of the Heavy Vehicles Factory (HVF) in Avadi near Chennai are the birthplace of the tanks that form the cutting edge of the Indian Army. The two major tank production lines here present contrasting pictures. On the one hand is the T-90 production line, evidently the line of the future. Presently reassembling knocked down T-90 tanks that are shipped from Russia, this is where the bulk of India’s 3,500-tank fleet could be manufactured once the domestic production kicks into gear. The other production line is that of the Arjun. Newly set up in a giant shed at one end of the HVF, this is the line with limited prospects. After fulfilling the Army’s token order for 124 Arjuns, which at the target rate of 50 tanks a year will be met by 2010, this production line will be looking for orders. The makers of the Arjun tank, the Central Vehicles R&D Establishment (CVRDE), located a stone’s throw away from the HVF, believes that the Ministry of Defence’s (MoD’s) decision to cancel comparative trials this summer is a hammer blow to the prospects of getting a larger order for the Arjun. After three decades of failing to meet the Army’s expectations, the Arjun would have needed to clearly outclass the T-72s and the T-90s in head-to-head trials to wrest more orders from a sceptical Army. The Army’s strongest argument in favour of the T-90 is that from the purely economic viewpoint, the T-90, at an affordable Rs 12 crore apiece, seems a cheaper option than the Arjun, which carries a Rs 18 crore price tag. But the CVRDE disputes this point. If larger orders are placed for the Arjun, says Project Director R Jayakumar, the economy of scale will bring down the cost of the Arjun to around that of the T-90. Initial costs, say officers involved in the project, were high. HVF Avadi has machinery worth crores of rupees lying rusting; that was used to produce even nuts and bolts for the Arjun, when local industry was producing nothing. Gradually, over years, a network of local suppliers has been created, an industrial base that has brought down production costs, but is itself vulnerable to the stoppage of production. Amphenol Ltd produces radio harnesses for the Arjun. Guruprasad Bhat of Amphenol says that in anticipation of increased Arjun production, the company expanded its manpower and production and testing facilities at a cost of Rs 8 crores. Now Amphenol must recover those costs. And the larger the number of tanks that are produced, the lighter it can load its products. Bhat explains that “we are proud to be involved in producing an Indian tank, but we would also like to see good profits.” Secretary of Defence Production KP Singh has told NDTV that the MoD has “kept the option of producing another 124 of the better version of the Arjun tank”. But that is not yet a firm order and, to benefit from the economy of scale, the overall size of the order must be clear from the start, rather than reached in a piecemeal manner. This is a complaint that several manufacturers voice about the MoD. In the ongoing procurement of Light Reconnaissance Vehicles, the size of the order could be a whopping 8,000 vehicles. The MoD has asked bidders to submit tenders for a firm order of barely 100 vehicles. Bidders point out that if 8,000 vehicles are bought in small tranches, they will cost far more than a single large order.
here check out this link and article:
http://www.business-standard.com/ec...nm=3&subLeft=1&chklogin=N&autono=297565&tab=r
Arjun tank: Building a defence industrial baseAjai Shukla / New Delhi September 11, 2007The sprawling premises of the Heavy Vehicles Factory (HVF) in Avadi near Chennai are the birthplace of the tanks that form the cutting edge of the Indian Army. The two major tank production lines here present contrasting pictures. On the one hand is the T-90 production line, evidently the line of the future. Presently reassembling knocked down T-90 tanks that are shipped from Russia, this is where the bulk of India’s 3,500-tank fleet could be manufactured once the domestic production kicks into gear. The other production line is that of the Arjun. Newly set up in a giant shed at one end of the HVF, this is the line with limited prospects. After fulfilling the Army’s token order for 124 Arjuns, which at the target rate of 50 tanks a year will be met by 2010, this production line will be looking for orders. The makers of the Arjun tank, the Central Vehicles R&D Establishment (CVRDE), located a stone’s throw away from the HVF, believes that the Ministry of Defence’s (MoD’s) decision to cancel comparative trials this summer is a hammer blow to the prospects of getting a larger order for the Arjun. After three decades of failing to meet the Army’s expectations, the Arjun would have needed to clearly outclass the T-72s and the T-90s in head-to-head trials to wrest more orders from a sceptical Army. The Army’s strongest argument in favour of the T-90 is that from the purely economic viewpoint, the T-90, at an affordable Rs 12 crore apiece, seems a cheaper option than the Arjun, which carries a Rs 18 crore price tag. But the CVRDE disputes this point. If larger orders are placed for the Arjun, says Project Director R Jayakumar, the economy of scale will bring down the cost of the Arjun to around that of the T-90. Initial costs, say officers involved in the project, were high. HVF Avadi has machinery worth crores of rupees lying rusting; that was used to produce even nuts and bolts for the Arjun, when local industry was producing nothing. Gradually, over years, a network of local suppliers has been created, an industrial base that has brought down production costs, but is itself vulnerable to the stoppage of production. Amphenol Ltd produces radio harnesses for the Arjun. Guruprasad Bhat of Amphenol says that in anticipation of increased Arjun production, the company expanded its manpower and production and testing facilities at a cost of Rs 8 crores. Now Amphenol must recover those costs. And the larger the number of tanks that are produced, the lighter it can load its products. Bhat explains that “we are proud to be involved in producing an Indian tank, but we would also like to see good profits.” Secretary of Defence Production KP Singh has told NDTV that the MoD has “kept the option of producing another 124 of the better version of the Arjun tank”. But that is not yet a firm order and, to benefit from the economy of scale, the overall size of the order must be clear from the start, rather than reached in a piecemeal manner. This is a complaint that several manufacturers voice about the MoD. In the ongoing procurement of Light Reconnaissance Vehicles, the size of the order could be a whopping 8,000 vehicles. The MoD has asked bidders to submit tenders for a firm order of barely 100 vehicles. Bidders point out that if 8,000 vehicles are bought in small tranches, they will cost far more than a single large order.
You cant get really deep TOT for thermals, for example. To produce TI matrix you need an industrial plant what cost more when whole Arjun project.
Most of this so-called production is just final assembly.
You can, if you are prepared to spend for it. India needs some 2500 Thermal imagers at the very minimum, for its tank fleet alone. That itself evens out the economics of making it inhouse, as compared to just importing them.
Wrong.
As before, you are incorrect. Production from raw materials in India is different from final assembly. There is a difference between the two.
new guy
hey guys ,
im new to def talk
but i hav been following reports about tanks so im not a total newbe
personally i think the arjun is a very good tank
coz
it is a good blend of eastern and wertern tank design
it is designed like the western mbt ( leo) but still has a lower silhoute
it has a riffled gun like the chally 2 but also has capability to fire atgm missles from the main gun
also it is capable of engaging low lvl aircraft (choppers)
the only thing wrong with it is tht its cost which is quite a lot
indian army cannot replace its existing fleet of 3800 tanks with arjuns
so, they went after t90, which seems logical buy..since we already operate a lot of t72 tanks
also after it bcame clear tht pakistan could not afford the american abrams the army lost intrest in the arjun program and went for cheaper but fairly effective t90s
hey guys ,
im new to def talk
but i hav been following reports about tanks so im not a total newbe
personally i think the arjun is a very good tank
coz
it is a good blend of eastern and wertern tank design
it is designed like the western mbt ( leo) but still has a lower silhoute
it has a riffled gun like the chally 2 but also has capability to fire atgm missles from the main gun
also it is capable of engaging low lvl aircraft (choppers)
the only thing wrong with it is tht its cost which is quite a lot
indian army cannot replace its existing fleet of 3800 tanks with arjuns
so, they went after t90, which seems logical buy..since we already operate a lot of t72 tanks
also after it bcame clear tht pakistan could not afford the american abrams the army lost intrest in the arjun program and went for cheaper but fairly effective t90s
Found an article relating to Arjun. I hope India's latest tank endeavor doesn’t end up like Arjun. It could be Arjun Part 2.
nfloorl:
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=3196879&C=asiapac
nfloorl: http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=3196879&C=asiapac
Al though the author is a real beauty when it comes to defense matters, i think ya this Arjun project started before i was even born, the "take your time" statement seems to rule the development.
Although now they know 30 years worth of knowledge about what not to do.nfloorl:
In the next 30 years they could become no1 consultants of these tank projects.
Although now they know 30 years worth of knowledge about what not to do.
nfloorl: In the next 30 years they could become no1 consultants of these tank projects.
The Arjun is not necessarily a disappointment. It is better than there T-72's and is as good as some of there T-90's. The tank has Decent armor/gun. I like rifled guns in some cases, don't really know yet if i like the 125mm Rifled gun. But it all comes down to the crew/training. You can have a bad tank with the best trained crew- and the bad crew/with a good tank will almost always lose. There are exceptions to that rule.... Range.
But i wouldn't necessarily call it a disappointment. It is a adequate tank for there first design.
But i wouldn't necessarily call it a disappointment. It is a adequate tank for there first design.
We can debate for another 100 pages whether Arjun MBT was better than T-72, T-90, Leo2 from what each chose to belive. Now that the saga of ARJUN MBT is over, with Army calling for new design of 40 ton category with 125 mm gun, we can debate not what Arjun IS BUT WAS and went wrong.
I feel this 40t design is "monkeying" USA FCS without indeep understanding WHY USA proposed such design. Dont see much point in it when there is already infrastructure for 46-50t vehicles in place.
The 40 ton 125 mm design specification is not even formal yet, the requirement for a next generation MBT might be 2020-2025 a long time by any scale.
The same weird news story by defense news that goes on about some mysterious scientist they choose to keep anonymous says this
so well your guess is as good as mine.
There seem to be a lot of reports that are really confusing.
The same weird news story by defense news that goes on about some mysterious scientist they choose to keep anonymous says this
And that is not all the same corporation that produces both the tanks has a poor quality control according to the article
but somehow the quality control somehow magically improves for the T-90 and the army is happy with indigenous manufacturing of these tanks. (remember the same Heavy Vehicles Factory)
talk about Irony.
so well your guess is as good as mine.
There seem to be a lot of reports that are really confusing.
Just hope DRDO does not MonKI this concept like Leo2 concept they did with Arjun, which had extensive design consultancy by germans.
And what monki Russian designs with extensive Russian consulting
nfloorl:.One more question to you Mr. T, what is the doctrine of Indian Army with respect to tanks and the hostile times of war?
do ignore the sarcastic tone if you find one, this is a genuine question that i am truly unaware of.
Is it
mobility and huge numbers @ lighter armor(accurate guns i am sure are the aim of all):
-In which case i am inclined to ask
About how a object behaves in the expected terrain/surface and what is the factor that provides mobility or maneuverability in let us assume a desert,
Is it ground pressure and power to weight ratio, or does a vehicle sacrifice it self by simply being heavy,
Exactly what are the expected distance at which the Tank combat is thought to happen in the expected conditions by the army and how will the overall dimensions of the tank effect ?
How will the width and the height of the tank be used by the Army in conditions of combat?
How does the mechanism of the some tanks manage to survive the punishing heat of the deserts and what is this mysterious and unattainable technology that can not be assimilated into another tank?
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indian bull
Banned Member
Hey funtz i want to know your veiws on the future of Arjun and experiences gained from this project.
A.Mookerjee
Banned Member
The mechanics of the tanks are reputed to be good. However, the tank is a system, which has to be well integrated, if it is to work well. Indian's are very adept scientists. However, the Indian Defense Manufacturing establishment has repeatedly gone beyond it's deadline, in regard to it's various projects. In times of peace, there is no emergency, but it does not show the defense ministry in good light, which includes the scientists, civil servants, and everyone involved. No one is accountable, because for five years, the ruling coalition politicians are their own masters. If the politicians were responsible, then works would have progressed on a "War Footing". I believe, The Indian Government should hire the best engineers and personnel, to make the equipment required. The ownership of the project, would be with the Indian Government, while the personnel would be hired from friendly countries. Gradually, Indian scientists, and personnel, could be introduced into the process, of manufacture.
Yes, beautiful words. The only problem - the reality is more harsh. India just dont have enouth money to hire "best engineers and personnel" for all these numerous projects in development. India could probably find money for 1 or 2 projects - be it Arjun or LCA alone. But developing full range of products (aircrafts, tanks, space, naval, SAM's, etc...) AND hiring best personnel for such developments - is impossible.India is NOT USA.