Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for? [Recent F-16 deal news, etc]
- Thread starter Mukesh Patel
- Start date
P.A.F said:
No one has ever realy mentioned EF-2000 on evaluation list. Analyzing the political scenerio, Britain might resist the sale since we are not buyers of its ACs unlike India, We already pissed Germany off by not supporting them for UN SC parmanent seat. So chances are grim & since no one has mentioned any thing about it, I dont think its up on top of the list.
There is no list in physical existance actualu so no one can realy get hold of it, scane it & post it. If there were I think I could have gotten it, but the ranking keeps on getting changed with almost every meeting.
kashifshahzad
Banned Member
Yeah when two or more then countries make one thing like aircraft one wants its spares and it wants that the plane must be most suitabe for its counrty and the other wants the same the third one wants the same in this way all go wrong.SABRE said:
The example for this is that you have saw when and you have the potatos
Desert Tiger
New Member
I prefer the Mirage 2000-9, however, if it is more cost effective, easier, and better to acquire the J-10, then so be it. However, remember that China was always a better supplier than France, U.S, etc.
The problem in selecting ACs is that there are more than 1 person to approave the AC & there are more than one person to evaluate & select the AC. Their choices differ & all have valid reason why a certain AC should not be bought & why a certain AC is more suitable. Now with multi-role Rafale, JAS-39 Gripen, Mirage2000-9 & J-10 on the list, it wont bee too easy to select specialy when you only have to select one type of AC.
For the time being we'll just have to do with F-16s. The purchase of the other fighter jet is doomed to be delayed since F-16s have to be inducted 1st.
Remember PAF says that JF-17 & F-16s will only survive till 2020, so they do not need another similar platform. They need an AC which would stay longer. This is a long term approach. Mirage2000 & 2000-5 will also go down on value in 2020. Only jets that would still pose threat to enemy would jets like F-22, JSF-35, EF-2000, Rafale, Su-37 & may be even Gripen. Mirage2000-9 since its coutomized version may have a longer life (may be 2025) but still it falls to short terms.
I wont be dissappointed though to see Mirage2000-9 in Pakistani colors.
After or even before 2020 Chinese J-XX & another light weight fighter that China is said to be developing in competition to Su-30 would be ready. They do look good enough to be inducted by PAF. J-XX should be some what near the performance of JSF, Rafale, EF-2000 & PAK-FA but it is said to stealthy. Rafale has some stealth while EF-2000 has none. PAK-FA is suppose to have it.
In the end in 2020 if we have Rafales, J-XX & Chinese light weight fighter along with F-16s & JF-17s we would be in better line of air defence. PS the AWACs.
For the time being we'll just have to do with F-16s. The purchase of the other fighter jet is doomed to be delayed since F-16s have to be inducted 1st.
Remember PAF says that JF-17 & F-16s will only survive till 2020, so they do not need another similar platform. They need an AC which would stay longer. This is a long term approach. Mirage2000 & 2000-5 will also go down on value in 2020. Only jets that would still pose threat to enemy would jets like F-22, JSF-35, EF-2000, Rafale, Su-37 & may be even Gripen. Mirage2000-9 since its coutomized version may have a longer life (may be 2025) but still it falls to short terms.
I wont be dissappointed though to see Mirage2000-9 in Pakistani colors.
After or even before 2020 Chinese J-XX & another light weight fighter that China is said to be developing in competition to Su-30 would be ready. They do look good enough to be inducted by PAF. J-XX should be some what near the performance of JSF, Rafale, EF-2000 & PAK-FA but it is said to stealthy. Rafale has some stealth while EF-2000 has none. PAK-FA is suppose to have it.
In the end in 2020 if we have Rafales, J-XX & Chinese light weight fighter along with F-16s & JF-17s we would be in better line of air defence. PS the AWACs.
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I think that PAF should first get as many F-16s as needed (hopefully 110 in total), then replace all the mirages and A-5s, F-7s, etc with the JF-17, get a AEW&C, air-to-air refuellers. this should take about 10-15 years, and once all this is done, then see in to our pockets and evaluate whats is on the market. And then all non-stealthy aircraft should be excluded, so whats left? J-XX and Rafale? dont think JSF will be an option... and given the fact that India will be operating or about to recieve PAK-FA, then i believe we should invest in J-XX! if not, then the Rafale.
If we consider the technological advances China has made in the last 10-20 years, the i can't wait to see what the J-XX will be like. especially if the EU removes the arms-export ban.
And in 10-15 years time, wont some sort of limited TOT be possible if we buy the Rafale?
If we consider the technological advances China has made in the last 10-20 years, the i can't wait to see what the J-XX will be like. especially if the EU removes the arms-export ban.
And in 10-15 years time, wont some sort of limited TOT be possible if we buy the Rafale?
Very optomitic!A Khan said:
The defense Requirement of a country is non negotiable (to a certain degree), if PAF requires a 4th gen fighter then it will need one right now. It would not wait for the next decade to pass through on an odd chance that war would not-break out. Expecting the Indians would not Attack. Situations change. You'll Have to observe that the Pakistanis Maintain that they would remain peaceful but would Guard there Sovereignty, when it comes to sovereignty. there Are certain hidden clause in that, Kashmir is a Disputed territory, in India's view IHK is the property of India,and Pakistan believes its a part of its Territory. So Both have reasons to Arms and to go to War. Pakistan can Preempt and goto war, To say Preempt is actually wrong, the Situation is-that India has infringed on Pakistan's sovereignty and India is Actively fighting an Insurgency that it believes is supported by Pakistan so both can goto war at anytime, its just a matter of Budging the Cog that drives each side to a fist fight.
Paf has a requirement the 4th gen fighters need to be inducted regardless of other programs. its composite defense strategy, you need Hardware to back your projected Capabilities Just incase you need them.
The Indian side seems abit Lets put it as (With Respect)"Far from reality" when they refer to the situation between the two nations as Calm, and when they refer to War as "Not likely in the future" Many Mad Men Have gone to war regardless of the the Odds. war is always Illogical, Expect the Unexpected. regardless of the political rhetoric there is a grave Chance of war in that region.
Agreed to adsH. Buy F-16 Block 60 E/F & Rafales now & go for J-XX by 2015. AWACs & Air-to-Air Refueling system would be here in couple of years. Get new Radar System. Move to make another fighter jet either with a joint venture with China or/& France or make it completely indigenious, that is if u can. Make JF-19/FC-2 or some thing or take JF-17 to the next level, make new version, verients & blocks of it. You'll get a good solid defence. Besides with Chinese AirCraft Carrier venturing time to time near Gwadar what do u realy have to worry about. Next u would knw is that China is sending its AirCrafts to be deployed at Gawad air base so they can give cose maritime support to their navy & than u would see Su-30MKK landing on Pakistan.
what a story!!!!
I think 100 F-16s block 50-52 would be surficient. along with that 150 jf-17s. i don't think f-7s need to be retired so soon. ACM has said it many times that it is a very capable air craft. why retire the mirages so soon. we got many spares to run on. we never brough them from libia for nothing u know.
anyway in addition a few AWACs will do nicely with either 60 rafale, mirage or gripen. J-10 will come in later.
so to sum up.
F-16 100
JF-17 150
Mirage 3/5 how ever many air worthy.
F-7 how ever many air worthy.
Rafale/Gripen/Mirage2k 60
J-10 how ever many available
this how i see PAF by 2015
yes..the work on naval docks is to start soon. Also F22P frigate production plant will be at gwadar. Some chinese naval ship will be stationed permanently while others will venture from time to time.lakhani said:
It is because of this China may opt for joint airforce base aswell, to provide its navy with close air support near gwadar.
AdSH: I am from kashmir, so i know what the situation is there. But i'm optimistic and confident enough that PAF and the Pak army will be able to defend us, if india were to attack tomorrow! But we cant just use all our bucks on a state-of-the-art air force just because uncle Sam likes us now. I just dont see how we are going to Pay for all these things at the same time. Maybe the economists (SABRE and P.A.F) could enlighten me.
But with regards to the 4th gen fighter, if i'm not wrong, then some members in here have hinted/said that F-16 block 52+/60 were 4 th gen figther, and 70 of them equipped with AMRAAMS should be, (well in my limited knowledge of defence strategies) enough to counter any current threat from our neighbour to the east. Given the state that the PAF is in now, the have been doing an excellent job of defending pakistan, and with 70 F-16s block 52+/60, 32-40 F-16s with MLU and 150+ JF-17s, and the mirages and F-7pgs that are still flying, i feel they will able perform much better then now in the next 10 years, and that should take of our BASIC need for the next 5-10 years.
If the president says that PAF is looking for a high-tech AC, and PAF wants one, then they probably are going to buy a high-tech AC, but its not like its coming to might our requirements right now? even the contract negotiatons will take more then a few years to complete. therefore i dont expect to see it in PAF service in the next 5 years.
With regards to the J-XX and waiting for it to be ready, i was perhaps a bit too over optimistic.
This is how i see it. for the past 10-15 years PAF has not made any major deals. since thenthey have been saving up big money and by now i expect them to have atleast 4-6 billion US dollars. now from what i've read PAF has the option to get some of its F-16s free from the 3billion dollar grant given to us by the US (SABRE might disagree). but surpose we got a few F-16s for free. that would save PAF a lot of money. with about 2-3 billion left in the bag the government can give PAF a bit of money and if that isn't enough then lets go and ask our arab brothers
. and plus we can always pay in installments.
On PAF getting free F-16s from $3 Billion grant I will agree. Infact I had writen it long time ago that PAF will get F-16s from $3 Billion grant long time ago when the news broke out. Last time I countered you because u dint clearly elaborate ur self. At least 1st 24 will/might come from this grant.P.A.F said:This is how i see it. for the past 10-15 years PAF has not made any major deals. since thenthey have been saving up big money and by now i expect them to have atleast 4-6 billion US dollars. now from what i've read PAF has the option to get some of its F-16s free from the 3billion dollar grant given to us by the US (SABRE might disagree). but surpose we got a few F-16s for free. that would save PAF a lot of money. with about 2-3 billion left in the bag the government can give PAF a bit of money and if that isn't enough then lets go and ask our arab brothers
About saving of money. P.A.F you cant save government funds. If by the end of the year or given period u have not invested/utilized ur money (resource) it goes back to the inventory (governemt), hence PAF has nothing. What it does have is a claim of the amount taken back. They can reclaim it that they need it & this time they'll use them other wise it goes back to government. So PAF can claim that money but when u claim u dont get the origional amount that belongs to u. Considering that PAF might just have $2Billion in claim. Rest you can get from UAE & KSA on loan or some thing but government is trying to avoid loans here.
A lot of posts are being deleated. Seems like too much off-topic talkies
Ok Sabre, as you say that PAF can reclaim some of the money, the question that arise in my mind is that "Was there any money saved/not-utilized?" If you consider the situation in which Pakistan's economy was in 90s (near bankruptsy), I don't think that PAF had enough funds to even properly maintain the aircrafts in the fleet.
Ok Sabre, as you say that PAF can reclaim some of the money, the question that arise in my mind is that "Was there any money saved/not-utilized?" If you consider the situation in which Pakistan's economy was in 90s (near bankruptsy), I don't think that PAF had enough funds to even properly maintain the aircrafts in the fleet.