Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for? [Recent F-16 deal news, etc]

[P.A.F]

A lot of posts are being deleated. Seems like too much off-topic talkies

Ok Sabre, as you say that PAF can reclaim some of the money, the question that arise in my mind is that "Was there any money saved/not-utilized?" If you consider the situation in which Pakistan's economy was in 90s (near bankruptsy), I don't think that PAF had enough funds to even properly maintain the aircrafts in the fleet.

well is that why thay have managed to fly those old f-16s for all those years? is that why musharaf has spent millions on PAF acadamies and training facilities? is that why there buying new f-16s and looking to by a 4 gen fighter?

i don't think so mate. pakistans economy is on the up and i'm sure PAF has its hands to plenty of money

 

[kashifshahzad]

well is that why thay have managed to fly those old f-16s for all those years? is that why musharaf has spent millions on PAF acadamies and training facilities? is that why there buying new f-16s and looking to by a 4 gen fighter?

i don't think so mate. pakistans economy is on the up and i'm sure PAF has its hands to plenty of money

Yeah mate i think Pakistan have done enough in building its foreign reserves now they are about 12 billion dollars or may be above now Pakistan can go for aircrafts whether they are F-16's or other i think govt havent announced about the other combat aircrafts.I cannot understand that how in the govt of Nawaz Sharif we paid for 48 F-16's (if i am not wrong in numbers of aircrafts).

So Pakistan will keep on keep on getting and builind planes but when Pakistan will able to build multirole aircrafts now pakistan is manufacturing only interceptors.

 

[srirangan]

I have no doubt that the Pakistani establishment will make the money available to PAF for the 4th Gen Fighter. Pak govt has a history of spending 'sufficiently' for the military and apart from China, Pakistan has the highest allocation of GDP for defence.

But PAF's problem's will be finding a suitable jet. Mirage, not 4th gen. Rafale, prolly too expensive. Eurofighter, too expensive/might not be even made available. Russia, won't sell. China, still not 2020 as yet. USA, too expensive/unlikely for sale.

 

[P.A.F]

Gripen, rafale or mirage will do.

 

[kashifshahzad]

I have no doubt that the Pakistani establishment will make the money available to PAF for the 4th Gen Fighter. Pak govt has a history of spending 'sufficiently' for the military and apart from China, Pakistan has the highest allocation of GDP for defence.

But PAF's problem's will be finding a suitable jet. Mirage, not 4th gen. Rafale, prolly too expensive. Eurofighter, too expensive/might not be even made available. Russia, won't sell. China, still not 2020 as yet. USA, too expensive/unlikely for sale.

US planes are expansive but not the F-16's caz their price is 25 million dollars so they are very economical , Grippen can also do a good job caz its price is between 20-25 mill $ but we are not used to it we have already F-16's .Pakistan can have planes from China but see whether and when and what type of plane they develop

 

[SABRE]

A lot of posts are being deleated. Seems like too much off-topic talkies

Ok Sabre, as you say that PAF can reclaim some of the money, the question that arise in my mind is that "Was there any money saved/not-utilized?" If you consider the situation in which Pakistan's economy was in 90s (near bankruptsy), I don't think that PAF had enough funds to even properly maintain the aircrafts in the fleet.

I had already given the answer on savings thing in my last post .

About saving of money. P.A.F you cant save government funds. If by the end of the year or given period u have not invested/utilized ur money (resource) it goes back to the inventory (governemt), hence PAF has nothing

PAF used to get quite an amount to use on its existaning fleets & pilots but the money kept for new jets every year used to go back to central government..actualy the money for new jets was never in hand of PAF, it was always with central government. All the buying had to be done by state not by PAF. PAF administrations only job was to point out which AC to buy.

 

[srirangan]

Hi,

I think the PAF can have a squadron or two of the F-16 to match the Indian Mirage 2000s/Mig-29s.

If they want to seriously challenge Su-30MKIs of the Indian Air Force, they will have to ask the US for the F-15s.

All the other aircrafts of the Indian Airforce such as LCA and MIGs can be easily challenged by the locally produced JF-17s equiped with good quality electronics.

Thanks!

RealtimeGuy

Fully agree.

 

[BilalK]

My idea is that the Pakistan Air Force will attempt to procure approx. 70 F-16C/D Block-52s in total. Not only to raise the fleet's capability by a drastic measure with the F-16's tech and weapons (if we do get any), but also replace some of our oldest Mirages, which need dire replacing. I can't say how long it'll take for the F-16s to be delivered, but my guess is around 10 years in total for all 70. In addition, I also think the PAF will further strengthen its F-16A/B fleet back to 40, or even take it up to 50, for a shorter quicker solution, and give them the MLU as soon as the new F-16s arrive.

To match the Su-30MKI, that behemoth can eat alive any PAF fighter plane, unless ofcourse the PAF fighter is in a lucky situation, which wouldn't always be the situation. The PAF's "Plus One" fighter had better be Rafale, given that it can practically stand up to, and even own Su-30MKI. Ofcourse, this doesn't mean PAF must go for it now, it can start considering it post 2015.

 

[adsH]

F-15 would not be the Best option for PAF its unit cost alone Minus expensive Maintenance requirements would leave no room for PAF indigenous Programs (Apart from the Fact that F-15 spares in the future would be rarer as time pass ). I think and i think Here(Situation) (PAF) should opt for an EF2000, we've got the Orders placed out for the second trench version so we would have further enhanced Capabilities on the EF. I doubt gov would block spares unless we have a real problem. In every case France would do the same so i guess by tech/Price wise EF2000 would be the better version. I really think the Saudis would opt for the EF2000 too it would cheaper for them since they have a very large BAE system presence in the Saudi. By the way Rafael were rejected by Saudi's too, apparently!!

 

[P.A.F]

i too thought that PAF should get the euro-fighter2000 but after a serious think about it i came to the conclusion that it would be a very bad option simply because britain and germany will not be willing to sell it because of indian pressure. as u may know british defence ties are stronger with india and at the moment germany is tilting towards india two. these to countries are the main manufacturers of the EF2000 and if there not with pakistan then i don't see no reason to why we should go for it. i think pakistan would be better off teaming with le france for the rafale.

 

[BilalK]

Though the Americans may be more willing to sell F-15 now then they were before, but it even if available, the PAF shouldn't go for it. The objective is to stay away from a one basket, and put your eggs in various baskets. My suggestion is that the PAF save its cash, and buy Rafales post-2015. Rafale may be expensive, but over the long-run, IMHO, it is a better option. With a potential lifting of a EU sanction on China, we can host a joint order.

 

[SABRE]

As far as my information goes (as of last night) PAF has F-18E Super Hornets & Mirage2000-9(PAF modifications) on top of the list. Next to them is Rafale. There is no mention of EF-2000 & for the time beings there are no meetings on any other AC but on the up coming F-16s only.

So till the dust of F-16s sattles down there would be no official discussions by PAF on AC evaluation.

BTW I am not hearing EF-2000 nor I am hearing JSF-39 Gripens from any one. So some of you have to pull ur horses togather (Although one of my source which is more reliable than any other says that Gripen is there but no EF-2000).

I guess like Rafale EF-2000 will also face scarce export or completely null.

 

[BilalK]

Isn't the F-18E underpowered and overpriced?

In any case, yes I'm quite sure that the PAF's "Plus One" jet won't be considered before 2008, at the earliest. Nonetheless, it isn't like the F-16s and JF-17s won't do, infact, that (IMO) is quite a lot.

 

[adsH]

As far as my information goes (as of last night) PAF has F-18E Super Hornets & Mirage2000-9(PAF modifications) on top of the list. Next to them is Rafale. There is no mention of EF-2000 & for the time beings there are no meetings on any other AC but on the up coming F-16s only.

So till the dust of F-16s sattles down there would be no official discussions by PAF on AC evaluation.

BTW I am not hearing EF-2000 nor I am hearing JSF-39 Gripens from any one. So some of you have to pull ur horses togather (Although one of my source which is more reliable than any other says that Gripen is there but no EF-2000).

I guess like Rafale EF-2000 will also face scarce export or completely null.

As far as i can remember PAF ACM Refused to Acknowledge EF on its list because it only had Passed Trench one Capabilities at that time. Since Capability 2 is going to be out soon with the new early Orders placed.I guess EF would or could be One of the top choices (Considerably cheaper). I think RSAF Saudi's Would definitely go for the EF-2000, Since they are quiet happy with the Brits and the BAE systems Tornado, i think there Trade deficit should be out of the way by the end of the year since Oil prices May hit an All time High, i think Saudi are welling Money right now. And if the Saudi's end up going for a purchase then its good news for us back here in the UK and its may be that PAF may get assurances that there EF2000 (if they go for them) would be Well supported. Bareing in Mind Saudi Arabia is a very important Market for British Aerospace.

 

[BilalK]

Sabre

I must admit bro, you're really reliable when it comes to this stuff, because about your claim of Mirage 2000-9 being considered by PAF just got more basis, check this out;

Taipei, April 11 (CNA) The ROC Air Force will feel the pinch if China acquires French-made Mirage 2000-9CS jet fighters, the chief of staff at the ROC Air Force General Headquarters said Monday. Lt. Gen. Peng Sheng-chu made the remarks at a meeting of the Legislative Yuan's defense committee, where opposition People First Party Legislator Lin Yu-fang asked Peng about his views on a media report that said that once the European Union lifts its 16-year-old ban on arms sales to China, China will purchase 210 Mirage 2000-9CSs from France. As Mirage 2000-9CSs are newer than the Mirage 2000-5 jet fighters that Taiwan acquired in the 1990s, Peng said the Mirage 2000-9CSs are believed to outperform the Mirage 2000-5s in combat capabilities and range

http://english.www.gov.tw/index.jsp?action=cna&cnaid=8543

Can anyone say, massive joint order? With this, the PAF and PLAAF can host a huge order of 270, and then that should reduce the price of each plane considerably!

 

[rafale_2k5]

Sabre

I must admit bro, you're really reliable when it comes to this stuff, because about your claim of Mirage 2000-9 being considered by PAF just got more basis, check this out;


http://english.www.gov.tw/index.jsp?action=cna&cnaid=8543

Can anyone say, massive joint order? With this, the PAF and PLAAF can host a huge order of 270, and then that should reduce the price of each plane considerably!

I FOR ONE WOULD SERIOUSLY DOUBT THE F-18S SINCE BUYING ANOTHER JET FROM THE SAME SOURCE WOULD NOT DIVERSIFY THE OPTIONS PLUS F-18s PRICE WISE DO NOT MATCH THE CAPBILITIES OFFERED, IT HAS HAD A FAIR SHARE OF PROBLEMS N EVN THE USN R NOT VERY HAPYY ABOUT IT BUT R TIGHT LIPPED ABOUT IT..... HOWEVR M2K9 SEEEMS TO BE A .IKELY OPTION SINCE PAF HAD A FARE SHARE IN CUSTOMIZING THIS JET SO THEY KNOW A LOT ABOUT IT N WE CANT IGNORE THE BLOCK 60s SINCE THEY TOO R IN THE SAME LEAGUE AS RAFALES / EUROS ....

 

[gf0012-aust]

I FOR ONE ...............

Please ensure that you don't type everything in uppercase - it denotes yelling and is poor etiquette.

Please amend your prev post ASAP.

cheers.

 

[rafale_2k5]

sorry mate case of bad typin, i couldnt dream of yellin , as a matter of fact ive found this to be the one of the best forums unlike Bhatar rakshak n pakistani defence forum where theres always flamin goin on n people tryin to prove whose best !!!!!!!!!!!!!! i hereby reiterate my post !


i for one would seriously doubt the f-18s since buying another jet from the same source would not diversify the options plus f-18s price wise do not match the capbilities offered, it has had a fair share of problems n evn the usn r not very hapyy about it but r tight lipped about it..... howevr m2k9 seeems to be a .ikely option since paf had a fare share in customizing this jet so they know a lot about it n we cant ignore the block 60s since they too r in the same league as rafales / euros ....

 

[BilalK]

lol...rafale, yaar, use the edit button next time.

 

[umair]

As far as my information goes (as of last night) PAF has F-18E Super Hornets & Mirage2000-9(PAF modifications) on top of the list. Next to them is Rafale. There is no mention of EF-2000 & for the time beings there are no meetings on any other AC but on the up coming F-16s only.

So till the dust of F-16s sattles down there would be no official discussions by PAF on AC evaluation.

BTW I am not hearing EF-2000 nor I am hearing JSF-39 Gripens from any one. So some of you have to pull ur horses togather (Although one of my source which is more reliable than any other says that Gripen is there but no EF-2000).

I guess like Rafale EF-2000 will also face scarce export or completely null.

Concur Sabre. I managed to get a hold of one of my sources and (to translate an Urdu proverb)"ate at his brains" for about 2 continous hours. Same result as what you're source said. BTW I myself would much rather preffer the Rafale or the Super Hornet over the M2K9 or the Falcon E/F. BTW F/A-18Es were mentioned by my sources as far back as 1 1/2 years ago. One more titbit related to the Thunder. The avionics suite has been finalised and is of a standard comparable to early 4th gen aircraft.Though the exact details are hush hush right now.