Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for? [Recent F-16 deal news, etc]

[A Khan]

Musharraf inaugurates JF-17 project
(Updated at 1600 PST)
KAMRA: President General Pervaiz Musharraf has inaugurated the production project of JF-17 thunder fighter jets in Aeronautical Complex here.

Some of the jets would expectedly hand over to Pakistan Air Force till December 2006.

Pakistan and China singed an agreement in 1999 for the production followed by the training of Pakistani engineers in China.

Under the project, fifty percent parts would be produce in Pakistan including airframes and avionics.

After the production of airframe and avionics, Pakistan would join the club of countries having expertise in airplane production.

http://jang.com.pk/thenews/

Another Good news. The military people in pakistan must be very excited these days. So now this part of the puzzle has also been completed. only the Erieye left... Now we can be assured that China will remain the prime suplier of military hardware to Pakistan.

 

[adsH]

about the finance....well here is an interesting situation from which Pakistan can get some money. The contracts of PAF pilots is about to end with KSA. After the end of contract PAF officials who fly KSAAF's F-15s & Tornadoes will go back to their respective possitions (mostly will go to 7th & 11th Sqdn since new F-16s are coming & these two sqdns will be 1st to get JF-17). Also the UAE contracts are about to end. PAF has trained UAE arab pilots well but KSA still needs these pilots. Pakistan can continue the contract with both countries in exchange of some good money. KSA would be ready since only 12 of their national pilots fly F-15s properly. Rest are PAF pilots.

About the air craft. Its not suppose to be multi role from what I have herd of. So this crosses out Gripen & may be even Mirage2000-9. amongst the 5th gen fighters RAFALE is the only one which tops the list. I am not saying we will buy it but it is a possibility.

yeah it might end up being the Mirage 2000-9, PAF has always looked at the Jet Favorably but i still think the Mirage is not a true 4th gen fighter. J-10 might be one of the Choice. PAF ACM has said that PAF wil never operate a Complete Chinese Fighter, they will always utilize a blend of Avionics that is western Pakistani and Chinese origin. the J-10 does look cheaper better and Indigenous option. i still think Grippen would be weapon of choice its s true 4th gen fighter it offers overlapping Capability and a credible defense when integrated with the Eyrie.

 

[P.A.F]

yeah i agree ADSH. gripen will rock with a erieye system in place.

 

[A Khan]

Gripen is a great plane, but since its an offensive weapon, sanctions are a big issue, and articles from the swedish media, dont really paint a good picture of Pakistan. And sweden has some real strict weapons export laws. So therefore i'm not in favour of it. If we want something else besides the F-16s, then J-10 first choice,reason: good price and no sanctions risk, if the cash is there then the Rafale 1 choice. reason: good plane, low sanctions risk, downside: high price-tag.

 

[rafale_2k5]

I beleve that under current environments funds shall be the ultimate issue n in all probabilities M2k9 stands a chance in this regard because Grpen may be good but ultimately is a point defence figter, PAF has a better option in shape of J-10 rather than gripen because for a point defence fighter gripen would be oer kill. So judging from all this it could either be M2k9 if its a multi role strike platform, On the contrary if they opt for a point defence fighter than j-10 is a more cost effective option. keepin in view paks economic state i dont see we have the luxury to pursue a point defence figher as 4th generation platform. In all probabilities PAF should opt 4 a multi role aircraft!!!!!!!!!!!!11

 

[SABRE]

Well atleast Musharaf confirmed my report on the purchase of another AirCraft at Kamra today. He said that along with JF-17 we are getting new F-16s & we will also buy other AirCrafts

I tell u the list is very short now & probably the selected aircraft would be announced some what later this year. Hope so & seems like it.
I cant realy guess any other AC on the list right now other than Gripens, Mirage2k9, Rafale & J-10....JH-7 for maritime attack is also under consideration but i dnt think they should be included in this list.

I think the other platform will probably will have to wait till AWACs deal is signed. May be just may be we get Gripens but I would still go for Rafales.

 

[mysterious]

Yup same here Sabre. No matter how optimistic I was a couple of months back about Gripens, my point of view has evolved and I now think that Rafael should be the aircraft that PAF should go for.

 

[doggychow14]

I doubt PAF will opt for Rafaels. Their price tag is simply too high to muster. This is a large reason why the French are having such a hard time getting customers for the Rafael.

 

[corsair7772]

I agree with the Rafael option. Ill tell one thing i heard from an AVM. Back a couple of years ago the PAF approached the French, asking them to sell 40~60 Mirage 2000s. Weve all heard this. Now what we havent heard is that the PAF asked for only the airframe and Engine! Can u blv that? The rest was going to be aquired by the usual clandestine and off the shelf ways weve developed during the nuclear programme. The cost of the M-2000 would then be $27 million rather than the 100 million the french gave us.

The Raphael is state of the art and is a viable option because its the closest thing to a gripen and no matter what the swedes will say, the Gripen has enough american gizmos in it to make it vulnerable to american pressure. Although i have done a check on the equipment sources for the raphael, im sure its political free. And an airforce like the PAF would be glad to pay the extra cost to get that political freedom. 60 Gripens, sufficient for 5 sqs, the best number for area defense of pakistan will cost $2.25 billion with some extra ground support equipment and a lot of spares. The same number of raphaels cost $6 billion......

 

[rafale_2k5]

I believe M2k-9 to be a better option since Rafale is yet to come out in multi role configuration. Even the airchief has himself hinted out in one of the interviews, the other thing is the price tag . The thing is way too expensive 4 our airforce thats why till todate Rafle hasnt ben able to bag a single foreign customer.....

 

[P.A.F]

pakistan may get some of its F-16s for free. therefore leaving use with quite alot of money.

 

[SABRE]

pakistan may get some of its F-16s for free. therefore leaving use with quite alot of money.

Why would we get some F-16s for free ??? As an Economics Student let me tell u one thing that every economist will agree to "there is no such thing as free lunch".

If we get some thing free that would only be one unit of it to bring the current no.39 back to 40. Unless USAF gives away its F-16s since they have massive surplus.

 

[srirangan]

I read Pak has the option to pay for the F-16's from the grants the US Govt had made available to Pak earlier. However this was in the mainstream media, hence I can't vouch for it.

 

[SABRE]

I believe M2k-9 to be a better option since Rafale is yet to come out in multi role configuration. Even the airchief has himself hinted out in one of the interviews, the other thing is the price tag . The thing is way too expensive 4 our airforce thats why till todate Rafle hasnt ben able to bag a single foreign customer.....

Mirage2000-9 is a good choice & France poses no political threat to neither does it co-owned weapon system (owned by UAE & France). So the weapon systems are also free over politics.

Defence does not come cheap & its worth every penny. The two reasons Rafale has no export is that 1) It comes expensive & 2) current versions come in Maritime strike role & A2A role.

Importers mostly want multirole ACs...PAF probably might be interested & is waiting till multi role platform comes out, which could be cheaper since it would down-graded from pure A2A specifications & avionics. But still will pose great performance.

In 1963 we bought F-104 Star Fighters, It was the best USAF had. They too were expensive (comparing the price tag of today & than & the value of money it seems that PAF economic situation has remained same) but still PAF went for them. They bought 12 of them & decided to buy 4 to 6 every year, but later pulled out of the deal in favor of more F-86Sabres & Mirage-3s since they were the real winners of the war for PAF, even though they did score kills with F-104 Starfighter.
So we can buy a single sqdn of Rafale now (12 units) & buy 6 to 8 every year.

 

[SABRE]

I read Pak has the option to pay for the F-16's from the grants the US Govt had made available to Pak earlier. However this was in the mainstream media, hence I can't vouch for it.

I believe the 1st 24 F-16s come from that grant, it was probably included in it the day US announced the grant. Rest will come from PAF's pocket. But thats what I too have been reading. Nothing on it from any reliable person.

 

[SABRE]

Well here is the latest information I got. PAF has already evaluated the AirCrafts it needs besides JF-17 & F-16s. Apperantly President Musharaf also pointed this out but I skiped it. JF-17 & F-16 are to serve for next 15 years while another long term fighter will be announced God knows when.

 

[P.A.F]

Quote:
Originally Posted by P.A.F
pakistan may get some of its F-16s for free. therefore leaving use with quite alot of money.



Why would we get some F-16s for free ??? As an Economics Student let me tell u one thing that every economist will agree to "there is no such thing as free lunch".

If we get some thing free that would only be one unit of it to bring the current no.39 back to 40. Unless USAF gives away its F-16s since they have massive surplus.

i'm a economic student as well .

anyway what i ment was what sri said. we might have the choice to get some free from that 3billion package the US has given us.

 

[P.A.F]

for me the race is on for gripen rafale and mirage2k?. hopefully something will be announced this year.

 

[SABRE]

for me the race is on for gripen rafale and mirage2k?. hopefully something will be announced this year.

We dont realy think of any other AC other than Gripens, Mirage2000-9 & Rafale, do we?
Why do u forget the J-10. If J-10's performance measures Gripens or Mirage2000-9 or even matchs them, we would jump on them & fly them here.

 

[rajupaki]

i disagree with the J10 option if one considor the future militry aircrafts of India. We should buy Gripen, the best option avalible at the moment. J10 is no doubt an excellent defensive fighter but why always be defensive?. Gripen is a good option and gripen's can be get sooner than J10's. J10 is no less than 7 years away from us and think what will be the TECH indian's using at that time?. So if i had to make desision i would love to make it in favour of Gripens.