Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for? [Recent F-16 deal news, etc]

[P.A.F]

i don't think PAF wants the belgian f-16s either because if the US has given pakistan a no limit on numbers to purcahse then why purchase the old ones. you might as well get brand new shiny ones

 

[adsH]

I dont think the Belgian F-16s will be forthcoming. The 24 newbies are only coming mostly because of pressure on the American defense industry. If more F-16s will come, they will probably come from america and theyll be new built.

PS in case the 7 broken down F-16s dont get repaired well have 26 left by 2010 and that plus 24 gives us 50.

Crossair was there a mishap with one of them when a PAF pilot after takeOff got disoriented can't remember if that ever happened.

 

[SABRE]

I dont think the Belgian F-16s will be forthcoming. The 24 newbies are only coming mostly because of pressure on the American defense industry. If more F-16s will come, they will probably come from america and theyll be new built.

PS in case the 7 broken down F-16s dont get repaired well have 26 left by 2010 and that plus 24 gives us 50.

7 broken down F-16s were visited by LH-M long time ago, I think some times after they took over the project. There even was a picture of one broken down f-16 being visited by LH-M team. They had already told that they are reparable. If not repared we are left with 32 not 26. 2010 we certainly would have 58 F-16s with others ready to go into production (hopefuly). The origional number of 112 is to be achieved no matter what. Some in PAF are still pushing to take the number to 200 & equaly distribute them amongst the provinces (each province take 50). This was being considered in 1980s when we bought the 40 F-16s & the ban was not placed yet.

Belgium is still willing & there is no other buyer other than PAF. We would have to buy them separatly from the $3 billion defence plan.

 

[adsH]

PAF F-16 Mishaps http://www.f-16.net/f-16_mishaps_airforce-PAF.html

 

[pshamim]

Turkey will be selling 30 Block 40. They could be bought cheap and have the mlu done.

 

[srirangan]

I dont think the Belgian F-16s will be forthcoming. The 24 newbies are only coming mostly because of pressure on the American defense industry. If more F-16s will come, they will probably come from america and theyll be new built.

PS in case the 7 broken down F-16s dont get repaired well have 26 left by 2010 and that plus 24 gives us 50.

I tend to agree.

 

[kashifshahzad]

PAF F-16 Mishaps http://www.f-16.net/f-16_mishaps_airforce-PAF.html

There are no mishaps after 22 Oct 1994 that were the early periods when the Pakistani eagles were in the begining dont you worry Pakistans can do now all the tactics required in the war like sccisors and the split s etc want some details of manuvers i can send you which are required in the war one can save its self during the air combat.

Indian Mig 21's crashes WHY? But Pakistani A-5's do not crash

 

[srirangan]

There are no mishaps after 22 Oct 1994 that were the early periods when the Pakistani eagles were in the begining dont you worry Pakistans can do now all the tactics required in the war like sccisors and the split s etc want some details of manuvers i can send you which are required in the war one can save its self during the air combat.

Indian Mig 21's crashes WHY? But Pakistani A-5's do not crash

Check the stats on the attrition rates of the IAF and the PAF mate.

 

[umair]

For every one's info, 32 Vipers are in operational condition, they will be MLU'ed at PAC Kamra and the seven writeoffs will be rebuilt/repaired as the case may be by Lockheed martin(btw included in those seven Vipers is the Warthog victim). So the total number even now in operation is 32 and will remain so pending the arrival of the rebuilt and new built types.

 

[rajupaki]

would this Permission of US to sell F16 would also doors to other markets for Paksitan. i mean tht it was US which was saying every country not to sell weapons to us, so now can we get them also(e.g Gripens, BVR misiles, Bombs etc)?.

 

[P.A.F]

would this Permission of US to sell F16 would also doors to other markets for Paksitan. i mean tht it was US which was saying every country not to sell weapons to us, so now can we get them also(e.g Gripens, BVR misiles, Bombs etc)?.

i hope so!!!!
ACM has said that pakistan might go for a 4th gen aircraft depending on pakistans needs.

 

[kashifshahzad]

Check the stats on the attrition rates of the IAF and the PAF mate.

Mate you have a bigger defence numerically can you tell me the mishaps in %age

 

[srirangan]

NEW DELHI, APRIL 2: The Bush Administration has proposed a two-day visit of External Affairs Minister Natwar Singh to Washington this month to work out the details of the US package to New Delhi with his counterpart Condoleezza Rice.

But that’s just one of the several high-level exchanges lined up in the next few months.

US Pacific Command Chief Admiral William J Fallon will arrive in the Capital on April 12, meet Defence top brass and visit the Western Command in Mumbai. The key topic in his talks will be the supply of P-3c Orion maritime surveillance planes to the Indian Navy.

Fallon will be followed by US Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta on April 13. He is expected to initial the pathbreaking Open Skies Agreement with Civil Aviation Minister Praful Patel.

Coming after the US decision to supply F-16 fighters to Pakistan, Natwar Singh’s April 13-14 visit to Washington—yet to be confirmed by South Block—will be crucial as the details of the US offer made will be explained to the Foreign Minister.

As of now, the two sides are looking towards top-level dialogue in energy, strategic affairs and economy. While Petroleum Minister Mani Shankar Aiyar has invited his US counterpart Samuel Bodman for a dialogue on energy issues, the economic dialogue will be between Deputy Chairman Planning Commission Montek Singh Ahluwalia and Al Hubbard, chief economic advisor to President Bush.

South Block and the Indian Embassy in Washington are firming up the dates of Ahluwalia’s visit to the US. Though the visit of US Treasury Secretary John Snow to New Delhi was postponed last month, a meeting with Finance Minister P. Chidambaram is on cards. Dates are also being fixed for a meeting between National Security Advisor M.K. Narayanan and his US counterpart Stephen Hadley.

The interlocutors on strategic dialogue are expected to be decided during Singh’s visit. Both the countries will chart out a roadmap towards nuclear energy cooperation. A conclusion of this agreement is expected to take place when Manmohan Singh visits Washington later in July this year. Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee is also slated to visit Washington, in June. While Mukherjee has gone public saying that India will consider the F-16 and F-18 offer of the US, he has also stated that fighter supplies to Islamabad may impact the Indo-Pak peace process. Washington has quietly made known to New Delhi that it will supply 32 F-16 planes to Pakistan and the deliveries will be made within two years. It will use Mukherjee’s visit to impress upon the rather reluctant Indian Defence establishment that the offer of co-production of F-16 will go a long way in addressing to the concerns of unreliability of the US hardware supplies.

With Prime Minister Singh willing to examine the US offer, South Block and the State Department are working to ensure that the F-16 supplies to Pakistan do not drag down the momentum of the bilateral ties.

Sabre,
Check out the emboldened part of the article. Can you comment on the number of F-16's wrt this article? Thanks!

Everyone else,
If you are gonna say that the source is Indian which is why the numbers are less, then save yourself the trouble. 99% of the people would rather trust Indian Express than some anonymous poster on a forum. Otoh if you have other reliable sources quoting a different number, then feel free to post them. Thanks!

 

[adsH]

Sabre,
Check out the emboldened part of the article. Can you comment on the number of F-16's wrt this article? Thanks!

read in closely and you will realize they said they would Sell 32 but they never added further that that would be it. this is the First Batch. once Pakistan is authorized to purchase the F-16. It is a MNNA like israel and it would be able to Procure the Same Weapon system. US officials have been Saying this from Day one that PAF will not have a CAP on the Ammount, 32 is probably what PAF was initially pushing for. Apparently if your MNNA you can jump ques so that is why theyve mentioned the time frame as upto two years.

 

[srirangan]

read in closely and you will realize they said they would Sell 32 but they never added further that that would be it. this is the First Batch. once Pakistan is authorized to purchase the F-16. It is a MNNA like israel and it would be able to Procure the Same Weapon system. US officials have been Saying this from Day one that PAF will not have a CAP on the Ammount, 32 is probably what PAF was initially pushing for. Apparently if your MNNA you can jump ques so that is why theyve mentioned the time frame as upto two years.

That's arguable mate, which is why I asked Sabre who generally has reliable sources regarding this matter. And I wouldn't be too inclined to make a comparison betw Israel and Pak. Anyway, if you have some sources..

 

[SABRE]

Sabre,
Check out the emboldened part of the article. Can you comment on the number of F-16's wrt this article? Thanks

Cant get hold of my sources now, atleast not for month or so. All busy ppl.

But I had asked them about numbers of F-16s before. Hope their earlier reply on 24 satisfies ppl;

they had told me that the number is kinda undecided. "24" is what Information Ministry is informing (But what do they know about F-16s...even though they have too) not what Defence Ministry, PAF's ACM or Finance Ministry (which is the other institute that keeps records of arms purchase & number of units....currently its merged with PM so its virtualy impossible to get some thing out of there) are saying.
ACM is certainly looking for more numbers & Defence Ministry will offcourse take his side. What ever the number decided finance minister (PM) would take care of it.

But they also told me that ACM doesnt want large number of F-16s. Source said he still goes into meetings for evaluating other ACs. Which means F-16 should be between the number of 24 & 32, so that PAF can finance the purchase of other ACs. According to some ACM might announce the purchase of new jet by the end of 2005 or in the beggining of 2006. The list has become short.

We might get the actual number when LH-M team arrives here.

 

[P.A.F]

any guesses on what this new jet might be????

 

[rafale_2k5]

any guesses on what this new jet might be????

Well judging from this piece of news this new jet could be none other than Gripen or M2k-9, but since Gripen provides similar capblities i would not be surprise if we hear About M2k9 , but i don know from where the hell they r gonna gather money for this 4th generation aircraft purchase, becaus its good to diversify your sources but altogether a different matter wen it comesto payin 4 em. Pakistan unlike India doesnt hace a huge foreign reserve base to pursue multi types.. So judging from all this i still believe giventhe option they would still go 4 more F-16 jets , otherwise there was no point in allowing F-16 sales to Pakistan if the order was short. I still believe that the US approval has got more to do with saving job cuts in LM texas plant than Indo-Pak dynamics....

 

[Red aRRow]

but red does the k-8 require some chinese engineers around attached or chinese engineering staff vist, wasn't this a joint venture

The Pakistani engineers handle the aircraft by themselves. Maybe the Chinese come from time to time but I'm not sure about that.

 

[SABRE]

Well judging from this piece of news this new jet could be none other than Gripen or M2k-9, but since Gripen provides similar capblities i would not be surprise if we hear About M2k9 , but i don know from where the hell they r gonna gather money for this 4th generation aircraft purchase, becaus its good to diversify your sources but altogether a different matter wen it comesto payin 4 em. Pakistan unlike India doesnt hace a huge foreign reserve base to pursue multi types.. So judging from all this i still believe giventhe option they would still go 4 more F-16 jets , otherwise there was no point in allowing F-16 sales to Pakistan if the order was short. I still believe that the US approval has got more to do with saving job cuts in LM texas plant than Indo-Pak dynamics....

about the finance....well here is an interesting situation from which Pakistan can get some money. The contracts of PAF pilots is about to end with KSA. After the end of contract PAF officials who fly KSAAF's F-15s & Tornadoes will go back to their respective possitions (mostly will go to 7th & 11th Sqdn since new F-16s are coming & these two sqdns will be 1st to get JF-17). Also the UAE contracts are about to end. PAF has trained UAE arab pilots well but KSA still needs these pilots. Pakistan can continue the contract with both countries in exchange of some good money. KSA would be ready since only 12 of their national pilots fly F-15s properly. Rest are PAF pilots.

About the air craft. Its not suppose to be multi role from what I have herd of. So this crosses out Gripen & may be even Mirage2000-9. amongst the 5th gen fighters RAFALE is the only one which tops the list. I am not saying we will buy it but it is a possibility.