Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for? [Recent F-16 deal news, etc]

[mysterious]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

Saudi Arabian funds are not needed in every thing that Pakistan undertakes but only when there is a dire need of finance. PAF has the money it needs and more would be released by the Senate if required. That is more than enough and PAF should be able to go for 50 Rafaels as I said without any problems if it decides to. China has already been assured of a faster pace of work towards lifting of the EU arms ban for it and so its better for China to wait it out rather than try other things. :smokingc:

 

[P.A.F]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

i'm narrowed down to rafael, gripen and f-16

 

[P.A.F]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

some people here say that the gripen isn't good for PAF as it can't go long distances. well you gotta look at pakistans approuch to war. they are only going to defend the nation so i think gripen would be good as it provides paf with all it's needs. but if we buy rafael on top then where talking aggressiveness :smokingc:

 

[SABRE]

Hmm, how about getting Saudi Arabia and/or China to fund PAF's Rafael's buy. Pak can repay China over a period of time, and China get's access to Rafael's hi-tech that currently EU can't sell to China directly. And ofcourse PAF can train the Saudi's.

China is not going to get access what so ever. But China will force Pakistan to talk France into lifting the sanctions before they give funds. Also China might say "cant u wait till 2012".

Anyways; Saudis can they will be asked for. In return Saudis too will fall for Rafales. If u dnt know Saudis dont have proper military know how for that they have Pakistani & American experts. When Pakistan told them that they were buying F-16s Saudis too wanted to buy them untill both Pakistani & US experts jumped in to tell them that they r richer & can buy better e.g: F-15s. Rafale being superior to F-15s, will certainly get the interest of Saudi's which US might not like. Its a big & Rich market for American Aviation. US will have to sell Saudis F-22 in order to stop them from buying Rafale which will give access to Pakistan to get a taste of F-22s along with other countries.
Anyways Pakistan can & may be will get funds from Saudis. Training Saudis is some thing I cant say realy about. In 1962 France made PAF promiss that Mirage-3 wont go to any other country for any kind of showing nor it would be used to train pilots from other countries not even those with whom French had better relations. So I dnt know if French still have the same policy now days but they still wont like any one else tempering with Rafale, specialy China.

 

[srirangan]

US wont sell Saudi the F22's. They *might* consider the JSF, but F22 never.

 

[gf0012-aust]

US will have to sell Saudis F-22 in order to stop them from buying Rafale

I can assure you that this is not going to happen. The Saudis will not get access to F-22's. The US has only listed 2 countries that may end up with the F-22 and Saudi Arabia is not one of them. The relationship is also too damaged.

They might consider in the long term enhanced SH's or Eagle Echos, but a Rafale sale to Saudi Arabia wouldn't shift their mindset on Raptors.

I would "bet" 3 years worth of my contracts on that.

 

[SABRE]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

some people here say that the gripen isn't good for PAF as it can't go long distances. well you gotta look at pakistans approuch to war. they are only going to defend the nation so i think gripen would be good as it provides paf with all it's needs. but if we buy rafael on top then where talking aggressiveness :smokingc:

PAF, attack is the best defence. Thats what PAF does. It attacks to defend. Havent u read that most of the enemy jets shot down by PAF r over enemy skies. PAF main missions include attacking of AirFields.
Anyways Gripen has good range tht is if u r talkin abt attacking our main rival. It can go to Calcutta, attack & make a return, that is if its fuel tanks r full. Other wise it can land in China. It can even fly to Israel to attack but it wont be able to come back to Pakistan, it will either need air to air refueling or land some where in Saudi Arabia or Sceria.
Compared to Su-30 it has lesser range & lesser climbing rate.
I remember GF tellin y Gripens dont suit PAF. I dont realy remember what he said, so u should ask him.

 

[SABRE]

US will have to sell Saudis F-22 in order to stop them from buying Rafale

I can assure you that this is not going to happen. The Saudis will not get access to F-22's. The US has only listed 2 countries that may end up with the F-22 and Saudi Arabia is not one of them. The relationship is also too damaged.

They might consider in the long term enhanced SH's or Eagle Echos, but a Rafale sale to Saudi Arabia wouldn't shift their mindset on Raptors.

I would "bet" 3 years worth of my contracts on that.

No. no need to be ur 3 yr contracts, lol.

I know F-22 wont be sold to Saudis. M makin point that right now F-22 is the only thing that Americans have better than Rafale, so Saudis will ask for it before buying Rafale that is if they want to buy it. Nothing more.

 

[P.A.F]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

well i think that there role of the gripen should be to patrol Pakistani skys whilst the rest of the airforce including F-16s go into enemy terrortory :
gripen linked with ereiye would be a perfect defence.

Mode edit: Gf: layout fix

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

I remember GF tellin y Gripens dont suit PAF. I dont realy remember what he said, so u should ask him.

Actually I am a fan of the Gripen, I think the point I was trying to make in the past is that you buy a platform that fits into your defence doctrine - it's capability needs to be sympathetic to the rest of your force management.

Gripen is a platform that works with modern networked ADS opportunities, and that means that its total benefit can't be realised unless it has the weapons and communications opportunities in place as well.

Otherwise it will be a handicapped asset.

To use a vehicle analogy, If you need a tractor to trundle around the farm, power other farm implements, get through swampy areas etc... then buying a brand new 100 series LandCruiser will be a waste of time. In the same instance, you wouldn't want to use a tractor to drive to the city 50km's away every day - you'd go crazy and end up deaf.

It's about balance and appropriate utility.

 

[SABRE]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

I remember GF tellin y Gripens dont suit PAF. I dont realy remember what he said, so u should ask him.

Actually I am a fan of the Gripen, I think the point I was trying to make in the past is that you buy a platform that fits into your defence doctrine - it's capability needs to be sympathetic to the rest of your force management.

Gripen is a platform that works with modern networked ADS opportunities, and that means that its total benefit can't be realised unless it has the weapons and communications opportunities in place as well.

Otherwise it will be a handicapped asset.

To use a vehicle analogy, If you need a tractor to trundle around the farm, power other farm implements, get through swampy areas etc... then buying a brand new 100 series LandCruiser will be a waste of time. In the same instance, you wouldn't want to use a tractor to drive to the city 50km's away every day - you'd go crazy and end up deaf.

It's about balance and appropriate utility.

Well PAF is lookin for complete mordernizing. If they get Gripen than they ll modernize thr force according to Gripen's requirement as it will become the leader of the fleet. & I think thats why PAF is buying AWACs from Sweden it suits the Gripen.

 

[P.A.F]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

if pakistan get the gripen then do u think the US would give us f-16s too
?

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

if pakistan get the gripen then do u think the US would give us f-16s too
?

To be honest, I have no idea what PAF would seek to do. The reality is that the only country that India can't put pressure on is China re combat equipment sales.

It all depends on how good your procurement teams are in pulling in interested parties, and then how good your Govt is at playing the diplomatic game.

 

[SABRE]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

if pakistan get the gripen then do u think the US would give us f-16s too
?

lols; up untill now the question was that would Sweden provide Gripens if US gives us F-16s.

 

[P.A.F]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

the PAF would rock if they could get there hands on both these jets :smokingc:

 

[adsH]

PAF NEEDS F-16 WITH AIM-120 WITHOUT this they cannot get there hands on Gripens.

 

[SABRE]

PAF NEEDS F-16 WITH AIM-120 WITHOUT this they cannot get there hands on Gripens.

Why do we need whole F-16 to get AIM-120?

 

[adsH]

The US Won't sell a major Weapon system without a compatible platform, Since they won't give you the specs on the AIM-120(fire control specification), they will intigrate it on the new F-16 and the MLU' F-16. PAF works closely with the chinese which make it difficult for the US to sell any major Weapon system. they have to have there people on the ground to make sure these weapon systems are not being handled by the Chinese

 

[corsair7772]

US will have to sell Saudis F-22 in order to stop them from buying Rafale

I can assure you that this is not going to happen. The Saudis will not get access to F-22's. The US has only listed 2 countries that may end up with the F-22 and Saudi Arabia is not one of them. The relationship is also too damaged.

They might consider in the long term enhanced SH's or Eagle Echos, but a Rafale sale to Saudi Arabia wouldn't shift their mindset on Raptors.

I would "bet" 3 years worth of my contracts on that.

How about a stripped down version of the F-22? You know like the F-15s they sold to the Saudis. They were fitted with much older avionics or to be more precise, cut down to something israel wont have much of a problem facing. I think the stripped down version is called the F-15J.

It would be amazing to see the Saudis buy the Rafale. Theyve already planned a Tornadoe Purchase which amounts to what $7 billion? Its that big. I dont know about you but i think the Saudis are smart enough to figure out that 150 F-15s and Tornadoes with E-3s are enough to last till 2015 without further purchases. More sensible to keep on upgrading them.

 

[srirangan]

How about a stripped down version of the F-22?

Yep, prolly the JSF, if and only if the Israeli's would be getting the F22's or its equivalents.