Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for? [Recent F-16 deal news, etc]
- Thread starter Mukesh Patel
- Start date
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
Funding discription:
5 Billion PAF already has
4 to 6 Billion Senet will provide in 10 yrs plan according to 1951 defence bill
2 Billion from Saudis may be asked for (as they were also arranged in 1952, offcourse the amount was lesser than 2 Billion than)
As PAF is buying AWACs from its own 5 billion they will still be left with quite an amount.
Even if PAF spents its 5 billions on AWACs, upgrading of current fleet & etc, they ll be left with 6 to 8 billion.
Thats enough to buy either the franch package of Rafales & Mirage2000-5s or the F-16s & Gripens togather.
Also as PAF is buying AWACs from its pockets & still left with some money than PAF can buy three new fighter jets. May it be Rafales, Gripens & few new F-16s.
New Radar system is also on the list.
As total I would say that there r chances that PAF will get 11 to 13 Billion (5+4+2=11 or 5+6+2=13).
Just pray that bill is sumoned to the house. It has to go through alot of thinking & also evaluations.
Also the rest of the two sections of the army will feel left out & demand funds for them selves which makes harder for senet to approve of the bill.
Funding discription:
5 Billion PAF already has
4 to 6 Billion Senet will provide in 10 yrs plan according to 1951 defence bill
2 Billion from Saudis may be asked for (as they were also arranged in 1952, offcourse the amount was lesser than 2 Billion than)
As PAF is buying AWACs from its own 5 billion they will still be left with quite an amount.
Even if PAF spents its 5 billions on AWACs, upgrading of current fleet & etc, they ll be left with 6 to 8 billion.
Thats enough to buy either the franch package of Rafales & Mirage2000-5s or the F-16s & Gripens togather.
Also as PAF is buying AWACs from its pockets & still left with some money than PAF can buy three new fighter jets. May it be Rafales, Gripens & few new F-16s.
New Radar system is also on the list.
As total I would say that there r chances that PAF will get 11 to 13 Billion (5+4+2=11 or 5+6+2=13).
Just pray that bill is sumoned to the house. It has to go through alot of thinking & also evaluations.
Also the rest of the two sections of the army will feel left out & demand funds for them selves which makes harder for senet to approve of the bill.
omegasigma
New Member
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
Please provide some more information (and possibly some online references) on the 1951 defence bill and how something from 1951 is helping Pakistan buy the new fleet of fighter jets.
I am also unsure of the foreign exchange reserve that 'adsH' mentioned. According to the World Bank and the CIA World factbook, Pakistan's total seserves of foreign exchange and gold is $11.67 billion. Are you intending to say that Pakistan will be spending $4 billion of that small reserve? Also, please note that two-third of this reserve has been set as a loan guarantee with the International Monetary Fund and the Asian Development Bank.
I am very skeptical of the 11 to 13 billion dollar figure quoted by 'SABRE.' India's defence expenditure for 2003 was $14 billion which is 2.4% of the GDP. Please note that India's GDP based on PPP in 2003 was $3.033 trillion (reference: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/in.html.)
Also, as I requested earlier, please would you be able to post online references to the senate funding bill you are refering towards.
Thank you.
Please provide some more information (and possibly some online references) on the 1951 defence bill and how something from 1951 is helping Pakistan buy the new fleet of fighter jets.
I am also unsure of the foreign exchange reserve that 'adsH' mentioned. According to the World Bank and the CIA World factbook, Pakistan's total seserves of foreign exchange and gold is $11.67 billion. Are you intending to say that Pakistan will be spending $4 billion of that small reserve? Also, please note that two-third of this reserve has been set as a loan guarantee with the International Monetary Fund and the Asian Development Bank.
I am very skeptical of the 11 to 13 billion dollar figure quoted by 'SABRE.' India's defence expenditure for 2003 was $14 billion which is 2.4% of the GDP. Please note that India's GDP based on PPP in 2003 was $3.033 trillion (reference: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/in.html.)
Also, as I requested earlier, please would you be able to post online references to the senate funding bill you are refering towards.
Thank you.
this 11-13 billion dolar package is a 10 year plan and PAkistan just recently concluded repayments of the IMF loans(correct me if i am wrong, I'm no Economist)(IMF screws you over badly)And once again the 4 billion dollar extra funding does not come out of the Reserves straight away it is funded over a multi year Soft credit package, which the Suppliers and the Governments like the US offer with Assistance, like other Purchases which are heavily subsidized. so the 4 billion dollar repayments comes out of the Reserves for the next 4-5 years, get it. during this time Pakistan will runn a trade surplus and as its economy grows which is at 5+ percent, targeting 8+% over the next couple of years slightly sustainable and modest growth rate. FDI is expected to grow asoon as FTA is signed with the US, which will make Pakistan a source of cheap labour and reprocessing Country for multinational firms. So if india gets a FTA with pakistan it would benifit itself too as it would be able to reprocess its stuff and export it form Pakistan soil and benifit from the FTA agreement that Pakistan will have with the US.
omegasigma
New Member
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
Here is the loan default history of Pakistan since 1975:
Default History Since 1975
Distressed exchange offer on US$610 million of Eurobonds announced Nov. 15, 1999; new bonds issued
Dec. 13, 1999.
Default on US$1.4 billion of foreign currency commercial bank loans commencing July 15, 1998, concluded
Dec. 12, 1999.
Unilateral restructuring of US$76 million of Foreign Currency Bearer Certificates and US$3 million of Dollar
Bearer Certificates on May 29, 1998.
Source: http://www.asiasociety.org/policy_business/ASEAN2004/pakistan.pdf
Pakistan has not repaid all the IMF loans. In fact it did new borrowings from several instituations including the IMF, totalling to $9 billion (http://www.dawn.com/2004/12/21/ebr6.htm)
The loan that was repaid was from the ADB. Pakistan has repaid US$1.1bn in loans taken from the Asian Development Bank (ADB) leading to an estimated savings of US$300m through early repayment.
Here is the loan default history of Pakistan since 1975:
Default History Since 1975
Distressed exchange offer on US$610 million of Eurobonds announced Nov. 15, 1999; new bonds issued
Dec. 13, 1999.
Default on US$1.4 billion of foreign currency commercial bank loans commencing July 15, 1998, concluded
Dec. 12, 1999.
Unilateral restructuring of US$76 million of Foreign Currency Bearer Certificates and US$3 million of Dollar
Bearer Certificates on May 29, 1998.
Source: http://www.asiasociety.org/policy_business/ASEAN2004/pakistan.pdf
Pakistan has not repaid all the IMF loans. In fact it did new borrowings from several instituations including the IMF, totalling to $9 billion (http://www.dawn.com/2004/12/21/ebr6.htm)
The loan that was repaid was from the ADB. Pakistan has repaid US$1.1bn in loans taken from the Asian Development Bank (ADB) leading to an estimated savings of US$300m through early repayment.
omegasigma
New Member
How much is the trade surplus and with what country? The balance of payment is not in Pakistan's favor right now. It is -2.2 billion dollars right now. Where is the trade surplus here?adsH said:
mysterious
New Member
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
A lot of us live here on DT live in the present unfortunately for your Pakistan bashing and not in 1975 or for that matter 1998. Since 2000 and up to this day, Pakistan has repaid $4b+ loans and the plan for debt repayment during 2005 has already been prepaired with the more expensive loans to be repaid before. I dont see it as a big problem that Pakistan is getting new loans, its an ongoing process. You get the loan, work on the project that it is for and then repay it (like big deal). It is Pakistan's (good) recent history of timely debt repayment that more loans are being given to it (need I remind that there are more 'grants' coming as relative to 'loans'). Hopefully, with the current policies in place and the debt repayment schemes on track, Pakistan should have 'no' problems with repayment of future loans. Oh, and did I mention Pakistan's credit rating has been improved 'twice' since current policies began to take effect? Enjoy! :smokingc:
A lot of us live here on DT live in the present unfortunately for your Pakistan bashing and not in 1975 or for that matter 1998. Since 2000 and up to this day, Pakistan has repaid $4b+ loans and the plan for debt repayment during 2005 has already been prepaired with the more expensive loans to be repaid before. I dont see it as a big problem that Pakistan is getting new loans, its an ongoing process. You get the loan, work on the project that it is for and then repay it (like big deal). It is Pakistan's (good) recent history of timely debt repayment that more loans are being given to it (need I remind that there are more 'grants' coming as relative to 'loans'). Hopefully, with the current policies in place and the debt repayment schemes on track, Pakistan should have 'no' problems with repayment of future loans. Oh, and did I mention Pakistan's credit rating has been improved 'twice' since current policies began to take effect? Enjoy! :smokingc:
omegasigma
New Member
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
I am not bashing Pakistan. I have nothing to do with any country in South Asia. I wish you and your country all the best.
I am doing common sense reasoning. Please could you provide some credible links to the loan payment information you have just claimed?
I am not bashing Pakistan. I have nothing to do with any country in South Asia. I wish you and your country all the best.
I am doing common sense reasoning. Please could you provide some credible links to the loan payment information you have just claimed?
omegasigma
New Member
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
Also, I have not provided any outdated information from 1975 or 1989.
Also, I have not provided any outdated information from 1975 or 1989.
mysterious
New Member
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
Here is one of the links for you to enhance your knowledge (while I continue digging up more):
S&P raises Pakistan’s sovereign credit ratings
SINGAPORE: Standard & Poor’s Ratings Services on Monday raised its long-term sovereign credit ratings on Pakistan by one notch, to B+ for foreign currency and BB for local currency.
In a press release, the rating agency said the upgrades reflect declining debt and debt-servicing burdens, as well as sustained economic progress. The rating actions also reflect Pakistan’s (foreign currency B+/stable/B; local currency BB/stable/B) moderate external liquidity position. Pakistan’s macroeconomic conditions continue to improve...
More here: http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_23-11-2004_pg5_3
Here is one of the links for you to enhance your knowledge (while I continue digging up more):
S&P raises Pakistan’s sovereign credit ratings
SINGAPORE: Standard & Poor’s Ratings Services on Monday raised its long-term sovereign credit ratings on Pakistan by one notch, to B+ for foreign currency and BB for local currency.
In a press release, the rating agency said the upgrades reflect declining debt and debt-servicing burdens, as well as sustained economic progress. The rating actions also reflect Pakistan’s (foreign currency B+/stable/B; local currency BB/stable/B) moderate external liquidity position. Pakistan’s macroeconomic conditions continue to improve...
More here: http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_23-11-2004_pg5_3
mysterious
New Member
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
Here's the main one and seems like even I didn't remember properly how much debt repayment had been done up till now since 2000-01.
Foreign debt repayment of $4b likely this fiscal
* Private sector estimated to retire loans worth $500m
By Javed Mahmood
ISLAMABAD: The federal government has estimated that the repayment of foreign debt amounting to about $4 billion would be made in the current financial year, an official at the finance division said.
The official said the federal government has worked out repayments of its external loans amounting to $3.6 billion in 2004-05 while around $500 million worth of foreign loans are expected to be retired by the private sector.
Read More: http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_4-12-2004_pg5_2
Enjoy!
Here's the main one and seems like even I didn't remember properly how much debt repayment had been done up till now since 2000-01.
Foreign debt repayment of $4b likely this fiscal
* Private sector estimated to retire loans worth $500m
By Javed Mahmood
ISLAMABAD: The federal government has estimated that the repayment of foreign debt amounting to about $4 billion would be made in the current financial year, an official at the finance division said.
The official said the federal government has worked out repayments of its external loans amounting to $3.6 billion in 2004-05 while around $500 million worth of foreign loans are expected to be retired by the private sector.
Read More: http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_4-12-2004_pg5_2
Enjoy!
omegasigma
New Member
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
Thank you for the projected, estimated debt repayment information.mysterious said:
mysterious
New Member
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
Dont worry, you will soon get to know that, that target has probably been achieved once the latest report comes out. But its amazing how you overlook Pakistan's debt repayments from 2000 onwards of around $22b which are hard facts and have constituted to a much stronger Pakistani economy while only concentrated your efforts at pointing out the 2004 projection. Even projections are made by considering ground realities and present day facts and figures, lets not forget that if we're only to talk about the year 2004 at the time of this report. :smokingc:
Dont worry, you will soon get to know that, that target has probably been achieved once the latest report comes out. But its amazing how you overlook Pakistan's debt repayments from 2000 onwards of around $22b which are hard facts and have constituted to a much stronger Pakistani economy while only concentrated your efforts at pointing out the 2004 projection. Even projections are made by considering ground realities and present day facts and figures, lets not forget that if we're only to talk about the year 2004 at the time of this report. :smokingc:
mysterious
New Member
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
Let me give my final take on this prospective AC for the PAF. I've narrowed my choices down to Gripen (maybe a last attempt by Pakistan could make them come our way), Rafael (costly but hey, I see it as worth acquiring) and finally the J-10 (a surety that will come PAF's way if all other avenues fail). :smokingc:
Let me give my final take on this prospective AC for the PAF. I've narrowed my choices down to Gripen (maybe a last attempt by Pakistan could make them come our way), Rafael (costly but hey, I see it as worth acquiring) and finally the J-10 (a surety that will come PAF's way if all other avenues fail). :smokingc:
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
I contact gripen international n they say they have not released any public info on wheather Gripens where rejected or not to Pak. I dont know how the media got their negative answer. So right now m also narrowed down to Gripen.
but man Rafales r great. Even few of them r alot. There quality is better than quantity. Even fewer of them r alot. In a sense that one can take on too many. We can buy 12 of them, n i have been hearing the roumer of French offering 12 of them to PAK but the roumers r not owrth considering. Its from non credible ppl. But anyways even if we get 12 of them, it means we have got alot of them.
J-10 will come Pakistan's way even when other avenues pass. Wsup with Gripen is some kinda secret, confidential, employees only thing.mysterious said:
I contact gripen international n they say they have not released any public info on wheather Gripens where rejected or not to Pak. I dont know how the media got their negative answer. So right now m also narrowed down to Gripen.
but man Rafales r great. Even few of them r alot. There quality is better than quantity. Even fewer of them r alot. In a sense that one can take on too many. We can buy 12 of them, n i have been hearing the roumer of French offering 12 of them to PAK but the roumers r not owrth considering. Its from non credible ppl. But anyways even if we get 12 of them, it means we have got alot of them.
Or Pakistan could get the J-10 fixed with the Rafale avionics or any other Western brand electronics. Thisll make it easier to hardwire them with the Eyeries as well. And plus the J-10 comes for $25 million a pop. With something like a rafale electro suit it could come to what $30 million considerin that the chinese electronics are not equipped and priced for? and $30 or $35 million is real cheap for a plain comparable to the latest.
mysterious
New Member
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
I highly doubt the French are in any mood to hand over Rafael avionics to be integrated on to another jet. From what has come to pass up till now, they only seem to be interested in selling the entire package together and not in bits 'n' pieces. I'd say, initially, even 30 Rafaels will make an effective punch for the PAF; while they should keep the option open for another 20 which can be acquired slowly but surely to bring the frontline of PAF to a formiddable strength. :smokingc:
I highly doubt the French are in any mood to hand over Rafael avionics to be integrated on to another jet. From what has come to pass up till now, they only seem to be interested in selling the entire package together and not in bits 'n' pieces. I'd say, initially, even 30 Rafaels will make an effective punch for the PAF; while they should keep the option open for another 20 which can be acquired slowly but surely to bring the frontline of PAF to a formiddable strength. :smokingc: