Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for? [Recent F-16 deal news, etc]

Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

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P.A.F

New Member
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

this thread is called "Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?". not "which aircraft should RSAF opt for?". lets just take saudi out of the equation here adsh and see what pakistans position is to ask for such a jet. well firstly let me tell you now that the current government has better relations with india rather then pakistan. 45000 jobs lost in britain to setup call centres in india and not pakistan. do u know why? because britain prefers india more. jeff hoon pays a visit to pakistan & india. and guess what? he offers military packages to india rather then pakistan even though pakistan asks for some. hey prestooooo!!!
i can see strong relations between london and dehli.
now lets put saudi into the equation. saudi bids £££££££££ for eurofighter 2000 jointly with pakistan. jeff hoon sends report to labour party. Mr blair smacks the report back on hoons face saying.
"NO NO NO. we do not want to destroy our relations with india. we don't want to get good old bush upset. maybe we can sell these arms to the saudis alone.
 
A

adsH

New Member
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

Prsd.Bush is with the Two (Saudi nd the Pakistani's) i don't know where your coming from here!!, and YES I KNOW THIS IS A PAF thread but for some odd reason i doubt you read my last post thoroughly, i Posted an article outlining the Significance of the Saudi's to the Brit Defense industry. the Saudi's are still a major def Market and Labour cannot shoot down a deal. Saudi's+Pakistani's are a reality you'll have to live with it. BAE system anuually earns 2 Bn dollars from the Saudi's and for some odd reason i doubt they would want to Jeopardise such a lucrative deal. BAE system is growing exponentially because of the Saudi's.
India is prefeerd by the Commercial sector as a good source of cheap skilled labour. the SOME UK business are growing as a result of that cheap labour, if we loose a thousand job here, and we save 60% of the resource employed to employ and train those 1000 people. that 60% will be reinvested in R&D, our Equipments end up being more competitive, we end up training more Engineers(Major requirement) and we end developing our work skills. You have to think logically. Briton will never reject a multibillion dollar deal offered by the saudi's (Pakistani's with or not). you have to understand this, yes India is a major source of Outsourcing in manufacturing and other sectors. thats a commercial sector choice. if India as a result of weapon deals chooses to bar their Firms from doing business with british firms then it would be loosing out since we ara a major economical power (Most of our business are owned jointly with American Firms, and American and other firms would see India as an unstable source and china would profit here.). we'll just take our business else where, Ohe!! i'll say China then.

AND PLEASE READ MY POST CAREFULLY AND WORK OUT THAT MULTIBILLION DOALLR DEALS ARE NOT SIMPLE TEHY INVOLVE ALOT OF FACTORS SUCH AS FINANCE, POLITICS, SO RSAF IS ONE FACTOR FOR PAF.
 
P

P.A.F

New Member
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

keep your hair on dude

you got ur opinions and i got mine. but i completely think that britain would not sell such a weapon to pakistan even if the saudis are involved. NO CHANCE!!!
the PAF should just stick with the french swedes and the US.
 
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TheMind

New Member
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

Rather keep both US and China in the equation ... more options give more choices
 
M

mysterious

New Member
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

If you check some history, you'd favor the idea of gradually fasing the US out of the equation as far as Pakistan is concerned.
 
T

TheMind

New Member
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

I know the history but what can we do? Everything backtracks to uncle Sam. Go to Sweden ... sorry mate, strict policy and US technology. Go for Rafale ... no $$$, no plane. Try for the Sukhois ... are you blind, we're already ruling this side. Try the US ... depends on our mood mate. Remains China ... give us time.

So you see, we're stuck!!!
 
M

mysterious

New Member
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

There is ample enough financial backing for the purchase of Rafales but it has more to do with the psychological side of the issue of the AC being comparatively expensive than other choices that PAF is considering. PAF is also looking for adequate numbers along with quality of the frontline jet.
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

I don't understand why you (Pakistani people) guys are so keen to phase out your US armaments. I'm well aware of your history of supply problems, but no doubt so are you military commanders. THEY themselves are constantly making public announcements of their desire to acquire further US armaments. You've operated F-16's (your best fighter) for nearly 15 yers without any help from the USA whatsoever. There's no reason you couldn't continue to do so. The Chief of the PAF has publicly stated a desire to acquire further F-16's. Obviously they are therefore seen as the right choice to supply PAF's air defence needs...
 
SABRE

SABRE

Super Moderator
Verified Defense Pro
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

Now doubts AD about PAF's desire to aquire F-16s. They r still quite effective in the region,specialy against IAF (If we r keeping IAF in mind when aquiring a fighter) Mirage2000-5 & MiG-29. F-16s of Block 50C/D r enough for countring Mirage-2k4,MiG-29,IN-Harriers, may be even Su-27. So there is no point in fasing out US arms & F-16s. Although ACM Kaleem Sadat prefers F-18 over F-16s (May be we ll buy them from Australia when they decided to get rid of them, if US allows).

Let me remind or inform u, if u dnt know, PAF is looking for two fighters not one & some one even told me tht ACM has evaluated two fighters. One is no doubt F-16 the other is suppose to be 4th Gen fighter which could help in countering Su-30.
This 4th Gen doesnt seem like a US technology but PAF should consider F-15s. They have had alot of training on them in Saudi Arabia.
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

You wouldn't want our F/A-18's, they're worn out. They've been upgraded to at least the same level of capability as US Navy Hornets (some things I've read indicate RAAF Hornets are MORE capable) but the airframes are worn out. We have a program to replace the aircraft's "centre barrels" now, but the RAAF and ADF in general is currently taking another look at this project and seeing if it is in fact worth it.

It may prove cheaper (and provide more capability) to forgoe this upgrade and instead purchase or lease F/A-18 E/F Super Hornets. Our Defence Capability and Investment Committee is poring over the numbers at the moment and is expected to report on this early in 2005...

I knew the PAF is intending to acquire 2 new fighters, though 2 western based fighters plus the JF-17 and J-10, seems a bit ludicrous to me. Fighters of such overlapping capabilities seems wasteful. The PAF'd be better off acquiring larger numbers of 1 Western fighter and reducing the costs on it's logistical system, in my view... The savings could be invested in making your JF-17 etc more capable...
 
SABRE

SABRE

Super Moderator
Verified Defense Pro
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

AD,,There is no word on J-10. Only once ACM said that J-10 should seriously be considered but that will only replace the desire of F-16s (If we get F-16s we wont buy J-10 in near future & if we get J-10 we wont buy F-16s than), that still leaves the need for 4th Gen. This time if we get F-16s (plus the 4th Gen fighter) the F-16 wont get the same front line fighter designation, instead do the jobs similar to F-7PG (Even though F-7PG will remain in service). While a new front line 4th Gen fighter will take its place as the leader of the fleet.
About F-18, I doubt Australia considered their Mirage-3s worth flying but we bought them anyways. If not for battle we can still buy 2 or 3 from Australia for training purpose & later aquire some from US. ACM has mentioned his desire to aquire F-18s om more than one occasion.

More money would be spent on JF-17 once production starts in Pakistan. Its not easy to buy wester equipments & send them over to China to be fitted in JF-17. Western providers will get pissed off. As u know the latest versions of JF-17 is going to equiped with Italian Grifo radar which does not allow multiple targeting, but once Pakistan starts producing its own, it will change the radar market may be even engine too.

So consider the line like this:

1. 4th Gen fighter (consider "JAS-39 Gripens" here for a while)
2. F-16s or J-10s (I would still like both inducted)
3. JF-17
4. F-7PG (Bulk fighter)
5. Mirage 3 & 5 (ROSE upgrade only)
6. A-8 (relace A-5)

I dont know y we never considered JH-8.
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

That the Chief wants F-18's seems strange unless he's referring to Super Hornets? The F/A-18A/B/C/D aircraft are good strike fighters, but then so are F-16's, Gripen's, Rafale's and Typhoon's. Why go to the trouble of acquiring F-18's, (unless they're Super Hornets) which would only provide an aircraft with similar capabilities to the one's you already possess?

A fleet of Super Hornets might be a good idea for Pakistan, if they were to replace their F-16's with this aircraft and acquire sufficient Super Hornets to satisfy their 4th gen fighter aircraft requirement... But then, if the US will sell Pakistan Super Hornets, then they shouldn't have any trouble getting just about ANY Western Aircraft, given that the Super Hornet is to be the US Navy's front line fighter aircraft for the forseeable future...
 
SABRE

SABRE

Super Moderator
Verified Defense Pro
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

US offered F-18s in 1998 provided that Pakistan does not follow India's steps & conduct a Nuke Test.
 
P

P.A.F

New Member
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

i think the gripen and f-16 would do the job:). along with the jf-17, f-7's and mirages.
 
A

adsH

New Member
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

SABRE said:
US offered F-18s in 1998 provided that Pakistan does not follow India's steps & conduct a Nuke Test.
Click to expand...
no offense and not trying to contradict you Mate they were the Embargoed F-16 and if pakistan would of complied the US would of further demanded the dismantlement of the Nuke setup, Similar to the SOuth A Nuke business. Pakistan would of been given what ever they wanted in exchange(that was a great offer). Uranium enrichment plants accoring to the latest tech(for peaceful purposes), Nuke power stations etc.
 
SABRE

SABRE

Super Moderator
Verified Defense Pro
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

none takin adsH, many say they offered both but F-18s were offered as bonus. Anyways doesnt matter now does it. We may get those F-16s anyways.
 
SABRE

SABRE

Super Moderator
Verified Defense Pro
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

Well its been quite along time now & that F-16 thing is cooling down. Does any one has any thing new on that? or do v have to wait till some senior official like PM to visit USA?
 
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