Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for? [Recent F-16 deal news, etc]

[rajupaki]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

Yeah, my opinion is also hanging between F-16 Block 50 and Gripen (I dont think Pakistan can ever get Block 60). And ofcourse, J-10 will come as the Chinese losen up a bit about it. :smokingc:

Sweeden has refused its gripens for Pakistan, US has officially not shown any willingness to sell f-16's, china will fullfil its inventory first then came the turn for Pakistan to get it, so still years ahead to get it. I think that we shoul dhave to keep facts in front of us before making a shooping list for PAF.

 

[P.A.F]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

then i guess that leaves us with france and china.

 

[mysterious]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

Yeah, my opinion is also hanging between F-16 Block 50 and Gripen (I dont think Pakistan can ever get Block 60). And ofcourse, J-10 will come as the Chinese losen up a bit about it. :smokingc:

Sweeden has refused its gripens for Pakistan, US has officially not shown any willingness to sell f-16's, china will fullfil its inventory first then came the turn for Pakistan to get it, so still years ahead to get it. I think that we shoul dhave to keep facts in front of us before making a shooping list for PAF.

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Yeah I really think we should keep facts in front of us before commenting on this topic!! Gripens are still somewhat on the table as earlier talks did not enter the serious phase of discussion. US has shown consideration for the F-16s but the current presidential elections are delaying any progress (which ofcourse would now depend on the next elected party). Doesn't necessarily mean that China will hoard J-10s up for itself before giving it to Pakistan; as there's something called ToT which I dont think the Chinese would mind and since Jf-17 would already be pretty much made in Pakistan after the first few AC; the facilities in Pakistan can be upgraded to support production of J-10 (and there are other ways too). :smokingc:

 

[P.A.F]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

hey does any body know if turkey can help out pakistan with its f-16's as both sides 2 weeks ago decided to expand there defence and co-operate with each other? and has turkey go a production line?

 

[corsair7772]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

Yeah, my opinion is also hanging between F-16 Block 50 and Gripen (I dont think Pakistan can ever get Block 60). And ofcourse, J-10 will come as the Chinese losen up a bit about it. :smokingc:

Sweeden has refused its gripens for Pakistan, US has officially not shown any willingness to sell f-16's, china will fullfil its inventory first then came the turn for Pakistan to get it, so still years ahead to get it. I think that we shoul dhave to keep facts in front of us before making a shooping list for PAF.

\

Yeah I really think we should keep facts in front of us before commenting on this topic!! Gripens are still somewhat on the table as earlier talks did not enter the serious phase of discussion. US has shown consideration for the F-16s but the current presidential elections are delaying any progress (which ofcourse would now depend on the next elected party). Doesn't necessarily mean that China will hoard J-10s up for itself before giving it to Pakistan; as there's something called ToT which I dont think the Chinese would mind and since Jf-17 would already be pretty much made in Pakistan after the first few AC; the facilities in Pakistan can be upgraded to support production of J-10 (and there are other ways too). :smokingc:

I think an assembly line would be more productive than a production line. We dont even want to produce the K-8 let alone the J-10. And china doesnt really need to hoard up fighters for itself. Considering the importance of such a project a lot of resources will be concentrated here for more out put like say 30 aircraft per year for the first 3 initial years and then maybe 50. Surely a sale of aircraft on 10~12 a year to pakistan is possible allowing 40 aircraft to become available by 2010.

 

[SABRE]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

Sweden doesnt sell arms to nations involved in conflict as we all know & it does not sell arms to countries where there is military rule even if it is democraticaly elected. Even if v r not involved in conflict right now, our president has decided to keep the uniform so the chance of getting Gripens has gone from low to lowest probably impossible.
I think Bush wants Mush to keep the unifom & as a substitue to the loss of Gripens he is willing to sell F-16s,versions probably better than the version of Gripens Pakistan wants to aquire.
I tell u Mush might give away his uniform if Bush loses. He ll say he has taken of the uniform to keep his word that he gave to nation.
This will bring him some respect, while he ll also get the Gripen deal into PAF's favor.
If Bush wins, Mushi will keep the uniform & bring the F-16s to Pakistan which again will bring him some respect as F-16s once hold the pride of Nation.

 

[ashoaib]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

good point Saber. very rational thinking. I hope Pakistan will get block 50 or higher. I still dont know are Gripen and F-16 block 60 are equal or which is better?

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

good point Saber. very rational thinking. I hope Pakistan will get block 50 or higher. I still dont know are Gripen and F-16 block 60 are equal or which is better?

They are dissimilar aircraft in their design briefs. The only real similarity is that they are both fixed wing jets. Their strike and tactical definitions are very different.

You need to determine what your doctrine is before you go and buy aircraft.


It's just not a matter of seeing a brand new shiny plane and then thinking that it would be good in a photo line up.

Again, doctrine, combined arms capacity, platform flexibility, ease of maint, redundancu issues - all are small but critical elements in the procurement process.

 

[P.A.F]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

i stick with gripens.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

i stick with gripens.

I'm curious as to why you would. IMHO the Gripen is not a useful platform for Pakistan as it does not provide a meaningful fit within the air and defence doctrine.

Don't misunderstand me, I like the Gripen, but I think it is a less than useful platform in your ORBAT when assessed against taskings and likely opposition.

 

[SABRE]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

I'm curious as to why you would. IMHO the Gripen is not a useful platform for Pakistan as it does not provide a meaningful fit within the air and defence doctrine.

Don't misunderstand me, I like the Gripen, but I think it is a less than useful platform in your ORBAT when assessed against taskings and likely opposition.

So u say suggest we should stick to newer versions of F-16s.

Please elaborate ur statement of "less than useful platform in your ORBAT when assessed against taskings and likely opposition" in a bit broader statement..GF ???

 

[P.A.F]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

with the erieye system coming in the gripen would be unbeatable. it's an easyyyyyyyyyyy platform to upgrade and i think that it's would meet the PAf's high tech fighter slot without fail. i personally can't see a better option at the moment. and the f-16 issue. well we can't just wait for bush to be re elected : . and besides even if he is elected i don't think were going to get obove 50 f-16's. he would just probably bring the aircraft strenght to normal which is 40 and thats about it. to be honest i've lost trust in american hardware and pakistan would make a huge mistake if they went for the f-16. ACM also said that f-16's would not fill the high tech fighter gap.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

Please elaborate ur statement of "less than useful platform in your ORBAT when assessed against taskings and likely opposition" in a bit broader statement..GF ???

It's a short range platform
It has limited turn around time due to above
It's primarily strike - look at Swedens defence policy. The Gripen was primarily designed for meeting the Swedish Govts Defence requirements - so you need to look at what their 5 year defence plans were to get an idea of what the aircraft was designed for
It needs to have force multipliers added to it to realise real benefits against aircraft that are faster, longer ranged and have existing better air launched interceptor capability
It needs to be able to close on an AWACs and return. At the moment, the Gripen could not close on a loitering AWACs at its detection range, attack and return. It's physically not possible.
The platform is very much dependant on having a decent load out if it is going to be used in a strike role. That means that extra monies are required for new weapons or more modern weapons fits. It also means that it will either be railed and ported for NATO weapons or Chinese weapons. There is a huge difference in the selection and result options.

plus various other issues, but you get my point I hope.

 

[SABRE]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

So wat u suggest.

F-16 block 50 or Rafale or EF-2000 would they fill the ORBAT??

 

[P.A.F]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

euro fighter is out of the question sabre. there is no way britain would go ahead with sales of that aircraft to pakistan. didn't you hear what Mr hoon said when he came to pakistan?

 

[rajupaki]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

I dont thing EF-2000 is currently an option for PAF.

 

[SABRE]

Rafale along with mirage2000-5 might just do some good. But the expenses haaah(Sigh)

 

[rajupaki]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

Gripens are still somewhat on the table as earlier talks did not enter the serious phase of discussion.

Sweeden has clearly refused to sell it to Pakistan since it did not sell weapons to countries, involving in conflicts with other countries.

US has shown consideration for the F-16s but the current presidential elections are delaying any progress (which ofcourse would now depend on the next elected party).

According to ACM US has shown some indication that it would sell some 17 aircrafts to Pakistan. It is simply not enough for us when we see 150 su30 of India in the comming years.

Doesn't necessarily mean that China will hoard J-10s up for itself before giving it to Pakistan; as there's something called ToT which I dont think the Chinese would mind

We are currently focusing on JF-17's, we donot have that much resources and infrustucture to produce both (jf-17 and j-10).

 

[P.A.F]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

Rafale along with mirage2000-5 might just do some good. But the expenses haaah(Sigh)

i agree with you sabre. that would be a good combo if we get refused the Gripens. afterall you get what you pay for and the PAF have got some big time catching up to do. i wouldn't mind 18 additional f-16's too so we can get them to origional strenght.

 

[SABRE]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

2day ACM made a speech at air war college. He said tht PAF lacks behind it enemy & needs new state of the art technology, He also said we need new jets, new electronic system & better Radars.

Looks like ACM finaly joined www.defencetalk.com & read this thread. lols