Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for? [Recent F-16 deal news, etc]

[corsair7772]

i agree that the fighters they currently use is really outdated and the issue that pakistan has side line it self buying american for so long getting russian jets would be a problem cause big daddy america will get a bit angry...

Why would the US get angry? Pakistan has been buying French and Chinese platforms far longer than American aircraft overall - numerically and in recent terms - historically.

What would really make the US angry is pakistan giving china access to F-104s and lending an F-16 or two. Dont forget, had pakistan realigned itself with the USSR after 1971 it would have ment some very harsh technoligical transfers, though pakistan had little to give besides some mirages and ground radars thus not too worrying for the americans but still not desirable.

I guess its this fear of transfer of technology combined with willingness to please india that holds back arms sales to pak these days,.

 

[ashoaib]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

Ashoaib,
U S of A is a country that can be trusted upto a certain extent, only one needs to learn how to use and take advantage of the situation. The U S and pakistan are of a two different ends of the spectrum you know----pakistani mindset is that of lovers forever. The americans on the other hand are looking for a quicky. How long you can entice them and keep them close to you, depends upon your skill level.

It is absolutely positively understood that they would dump pakistan at some stage as usual, but what pakistan needs to get out of this scenario is the maximum mileage. pakistan needs to squeeze this lemon dry as much as it can economically. Create economic stability, get american investment going and when the U S decides to turn its back, stop being lovers and become good friends. That is the american way. American partners break up, the love is gone, now they are friends. They have realized that it is economically not feasable to remain bitter after seperation. Pakistan needs to change its strategy---and pakistan can only change its strategy only if it realizes that the present situation may not lead to a greater success in the future.

And this is the problem Pakistani Gov dont realise. Other thing is that Pakistan is not the country of much interest for US although they are trying to assure that this time they will not leave us but they will coz the nature cant be change. India is a more potential state for US that why they have no concern to offer same F-16s which they are finding hard to sell to Pakistan. even US offer india technology transfer.
Its up to Musharaf how he tackle the issue of F-16s. If he talk straight forward that we have done enough to fight terrorism we deserve F-16s than there will be a chance of F-16 other wise US keep on playing puzzles.

 

[pakcamando14]

could someone explain why dosent USA give the planes to Pakistan. Has Pakistan paid for them or what is the problem. Please explain :?

 

[SABRE]

could someone explain why dosent USA give the planes to Pakistan. Has Pakistan paid for them or what is the problem. Please explain :?

Stop throughing stone at us buddy, Its a long long story & non of us I think is ready to repeat it again.
Just do a googe or yahoo search on PAF+F-16+Preseler's ammendment

 

[EHsan]

Well guys we will maybe get 18 f-16s from USA-. but its for sure that the PAF is going for j-10 from China...... The first dell will be at 50 j-10 jets from CHina end of maybe this year -

 

[EHsan]

Paxter my friend the cost of su-27 is to expe.....

 

[mysterious]

Well guys we will maybe get 18 f-16s from USA-. but its for sure that the PAF is going for j-10 from China...... The first dell will be at 50 j-10 jets from CHina end of maybe this year -

Whst? Please qoute your sources when making such tall claims (which are obviously rumours that you've come across). :smokingc:

 

[P.A.F]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

The j-10 has a llloooonnnnnnggggggggg way to go before entering into chinese airforce. and i'm sure china would like to get the job done for themselves before they can give anything to pakistan. so jf-17 and rafale should do the trick for now and maybe f-16 too.

 

[ashoaib]

Paxter my friend the cost of su-27 is to expe.....

Expensive??? What SU-27?
As I know SU-27 which Ukraine offered was 8 millione per peace a real give away price. Is it expensive? If it is expensive then you should buy cars for PAF not the air craft.
there were other reasons due to which SU-27 was not considered money was not at all the problem.

 

[quicksilver]

I think they should opt for the Eurofighter it is cheap to build and

a superior fighter jet

 

[SABRE]

Paxter my friend the cost of su-27 is to expe.....

Expensive??? What SU-27?
As I know SU-27 which Ukraine offered was 8 millione per peace a real give away price. Is it expensive? If it is expensive then you should buy cars for PAF not the air craft.
there were other reasons due to which SU-27 was not considered money was not at all the problem.

I have herd that PAF did buy 2 (some say 3 or 4, most say 2) Su-27s from Ukrain. One is I dnt know where, possibly at Chaklala & 2nd is at Kamra, I dont know doing what.
May be its still in evaluation process.

Anyways, 2 questions:

1. If Ukrain is willing to sell Su-27 to Pakistan, wouldnt Russia cancel Ukrains license?

or

2. Could this possibly be an attempt by Russia to open up a market for its Jets in Pakistan through a 3rd party so it does not effect India?

 

[skybolturs]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

Dear Gentalments

Pakistan Air Force , right now is enough capable to defend it homeland. but it is true that PAF requires a modern generation aircraft.


Admin: No religious comments!


, so the only way to get aircraft is Own manufacturing. that's what Pakistan is doing right now .

 

[ashoaib]

I have herd that PAF did buy 2 (some say 3 or 4, most say 2) Su-27s from Ukrain. One is I dnt know where, possibly at Chaklala & 2nd is at Kamra, I dont know doing what.
May be its still in evaluation process.

Anyways, 2 questions:

1. If Ukrain is willing to sell Su-27 to Pakistan, wouldnt Russia cancel Ukrains license?

or

2. Could this possibly be an attempt by Russia to open up a market for its Jets in Pakistan through a 3rd party so it does not effect India?

Yeh valid questions, may be they are evaluating these ACs performance wise coz russian tech is not as much reliable as Western tech. I dont think that Russia cancle the license coz Ukraine has the same origin and the SU-27 which they offered are used upgraded ones. May be its also an attempt to avoide making India angry. well if this news is correct than its a good thing to evaluate the performance and also SU-27 and JF-17 has same engine so there is something common and it will become easy to maintain SU-27's engine after JF-17 assembly start which will ultimately reduce the maintanance cost.
From where did you get this report? in the news paper?

 

[armage]

:help Have the Russians sold any military hardware to the PAF before?
O and will the US sell the JSF to the PAF?

 

[SABRE]

From where did you get this report? in the news paper?

No .. no news paper or TV channel will open up news such as Su-27 in PAF coustody.
Herd it from some one who had worked for PAF, he left the job.

 

[umair]

Actually it ain't Flankers but 8 Fulcrums(lkeased from Ukraine with a shitload of spares) which form an agressor squadron(I won't say which base) but trust me cause I have eyeballed them myself. :smokingc:

 

[P.A.F]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

So they are MiG-29 fulcrums??? and 8 of them? and when did you see them???

 

[ashoaib]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

SU-27 cost more than MIG-29. The real cost difference between the two apparently is due to supportability...for some reason of which I'm not yet aware, the Su-27 is considered a lot more maintenance intensive and complex to operate than the MiG-29. It require a lot more down time for maintenance than MIG-29. Indian SU-30MKIs (which are more capable versions of SU-27) requires much more maintenence than their MIG-29s which makes them cost a lot more. However, on the other hand SU-27 has a better maximum turn rate (rumoured to be even better than the F16; wish some one knows the truth) by far (despite the fact that it's almost twice the size of the Fulcrum!); it has a similar wing loading, more thrust to weight, better range, better engines than the MiG-29 and more capable avionics and better long range radar system. SU-27 uses AL-31F engine and MIG-29 uses RD-33 which has relatively short engine life than AL-31F. The thrust of the AL-31Fs is greater than those of the MiG's RD-33s.
scuttlebutt is that this is because the MIG-29 Fulcrum is aerodynamically stable and cost effective (may be thats why PAF lease those), while the SU-27 Flanker is not. Remember the Flanker is several years newer, and benefits from better technology.
Again money matters!!!

 

[redsoulja]

and will the US sell the JSF to the PAF?

WHAT?? :eek
armage are you out of your mind? on drugs? the US isn't selling the
JSF or it's primary tech to the Israelis let alone the Pakistani Air Force
they are debating the sale of the F-16s and you're asking about the JSF!!!!!!!!!

 

[armage]

: They can always trade in Bin Laden for a JSF or F-22, I'm pretty sure Bush has been tearing his hair out to find him: he'll do anything I'll to capture Bin Laden. :smokingc: