Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for? [Recent F-16 deal news, etc]

[P.A.F]

PAF lost 31 aircraft in 4 years, Senate told

http://www.dawn.com/2004/10/28/nat7.htm

ISLAMABAD, Oct 27: The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) lost 31 fighter aircraft during the last four years in what the government has said were "normal operational missions" within the country.

The record placed before the Senate by the defence ministry on Wednesday showed nine aircraft had crashed in 2001, followed by a similar number in 2002. The number of aircraft casualties was seven in 2003.

The record also showed that seven pilots had lost their lives in the air crashes while four had received injuries from 2000 till 2003.

According to the data, the PAF lost fighter aircraft worth millions of dollars, including Mirage, F-7 and A-5.

The defence ministry informed the Senate that the property destroyed by A-5, F-7 and Mirage aircraft in Kohat, Peshawar, Chakwal and Karachi was compensated in financial terms.

The property damaged by Mirage aircraft in Karachi's Malir Cantt in 2003 was compensated with Rs2.9 million, and the property damaged by another Mirage aircraft in Karachi during 2003 was compensated with Rs5,000.

In 2002, the sugarcane crop damaged by F-7 aircraft in Karachi was compensated with Rs5,000.

In 2001, the property damaged by A-5 aircraft in Peshawar was compensated with Rs18,000. The property damaged by F-7 in Mianwali was compensated with Rs16,000.

In 2000, the property destroyed by A-5 aircraft in Kohat was compensated with Rs20,000 while animal injury with Rs16,000.

The defence ministry said inquiries were conducted in all 31 air crashes and the recommendations had been implemented in each case.

On the technical side, it said, design deficiencies in various systems had been pointed out and the original equipment manufacturers had been approached for their specialist comments to undertake the remedial measures.


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just shows how our fleet is aging. we need new planes and we need them now :mad

 

[rajupaki]

Re: PAF lost 31 aircraft in 4 years, Senate told

We need spares for our existing fighters. France is no more making spares of Mirage III/V , US is not giving spares for our f-16's, Our airforce is 20 years old from the rest of the World. Just pray that JF-17 and j-10 came as soon as possible!

 

[SABRE]

Re: PAF lost 31 aircraft in 4 years, Senate told

Yup, Just confirmed it.

I may not ve good defence sources but I do have nice political sources. Senet has been informed n senet is to call a meeting on the issue.
It is being said tht CM Senet n Leader of Senet r to make big decision regarding this. It is believed tht they r to give a go ahead to PAF to buy the JEt tht best suits them, expenses will be dealt by state.
Now is the good chance for Rafales I say.

 

[Sq No.15]

Re: PAF lost 31 aircraft in 4 years, Senate told

Yup, Just confirmed it.

I may not ve good defence sources but I do have nice political sources. Senet has been informed n senet is to call a meeting on the issue.
It is being said tht CM Senet n Leader of Senet r to make big decision regarding this. It is believed tht they r to give a go ahead to PAF to buy the JEt tht best suits them, expenses will be dealt by state.
Now is the good chance for Rafales I say.

Well , Well , .. i am not any politician nor any Military Gearnal, but i know , Rafales are the 5th Generation , Crafts standing in the league of Euro Fighter , F-22, JSF SU-30/35 etc.

Its Price is around 60 Million USD per Price compaire Mirage 2000-5 which cost around 25 -30 million USD /Peice. When France Proposes Rafahel;s to India find it to cousty to purchase .

I don't think Well France will ever offer its Rafale's to Pakistan , When 1.8 Billions USD submarine deal and 250 - 320 million 140 Mirage 2000-5 deal is going ahead .

Well I don;t think French will offer their strip down version of Raphales like US never offer F-22 even to its allies .

Please , Don't Take offence , Did French ever offer Rafael's to PAF ? or Mirage 2000-5 ?

 

[P.A.F]

Re: PAF lost 31 aircraft in 4 years, Senate told

listen dude. France has a neutral policy and if they offered it to india then there is no problem selling it to pakistan. and yes we were offered the mirage 2000-5 but at that time it was to expensive for us.

 

[SABRE]

Re: PAF lost 31 aircraft in 4 years, Senate told

Yup, Just confirmed it.

I may not ve good defence sources but I do have nice political sources. Senet has been informed n senet is to call a meeting on the issue.
It is being said tht CM Senet n Leader of Senet r to make big decision regarding this. It is believed tht they r to give a go ahead to PAF to buy the JEt tht best suits them, expenses will be dealt by state.
Now is the good chance for Rafales I say.

Well , Well , .. i am not any politician nor any Military Gearnal, but i know , Rafales are the 5th Generation , Crafts standing in the league of Euro Fighter , F-22, JSF SU-30/35 etc.

Its Price is around 60 Million USD per Price compaire Mirage 2000-5 which cost around 25 -30 million USD /Peice. When France Proposes Rafahel;s to India find it to cousty to purchase .

I don't think Well France will ever offer its Rafale's to Pakistan , When 1.8 Billions USD submarine deal and 250 - 320 million 140 Mirage 2000-5 deal is going ahead .

Well I don;t think French will offer their strip down version of Raphales like US never offer F-22 even to its allies .

Please , Don't Take offence , Did French ever offer Rafael's to PAF ? or Mirage 2000-5 ?

Budy ur new to French arms market we r the oldest. Rember Mirage 3 n 5.
As for the France offering is concerned, as PAF said, they offered Mirage2000-5, they have pursuing Pakistan to replace their old mirages with newer ones (So they can get some major profit). As for the Rafale is concerned it has no market now n France would be happy to sell them to Pakistan n even like PAF to take them to action against IAF just to asses its combat performance, like they did with Mir 3 n5. Rfale can be sold to Pakistan, if we ask.

As for the matter has reached senat, this means funds r open. The amount PAF ask will now be given. If it was national assembly money would have come from defence budget. In senat its whole state which will pay meaning all 4 province. This will give PAF more than its share. I think share would be enough to buy a sqn Rafale right now.

 

[P.A.F]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

To be honest we need new planes now to make these crashes less likely.

 

[P.A.F]

Will ‘Bush-II’ supply F-16s to Pakistan?

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_29-10-2004_pg1_2


Will ‘Bush-II’ supply F-16s to Pakistan?

By Khalid Hasan

WASHINGTON: A second Bush administration, if he wins next week, will move to supply F-16s to Pakistan, an Indian-American publication said on Thursday, accusing the Indian embassy and its lobbyist of doing nothing to block the deal.

India Abroad, in a lead story quoting “congressional circlesâ€, claimed that there was a “credible prospect†of Pakistan getting the F-16s in a second Bush administration. The paper predicted that the sale would be blocked by the Senate where both Democrats and Republicans would be opposed to Pakistan acquiring such powerful weapons that it would use against India rather than to counter terrorism. The report recalled that last month, Pakistan’s air force chief Air Marshal Kaleen Sadaat said in Karachi that the United States had indicated that it would be ready to sell F-16s to Pakistan. Progress had not been made because of US elections. The report quoted a congressional source as saying that a Pentagon official, commenting privately on the air marshal’s claim, had said that nothing had so far been decided but “that does not mean a decision could not come down at any moment.â€

The source said Congress had not been given an indication of any such sale to Pakistan. The paper noted that the Pakistani air force chief had repeated his claim to Jane’s Defence Weekly, London, saying that 18 aircraft, representing the first instalment, would be delivered to Pakistan as one of several deals between the two countries.

Pakistan, the weekly said, wants the aircraft to be equipped with advanced medium-range air-to-air missiles. Pakistan also wanted “beyond-visual-range†missiles. Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage had also told a private Pakistani TV channel that discussions between the two countries had been held on the F-16 supply question. He refused to say more.

US ambassador designate to Pakistan Ryan C Crocker was asked by the Senate Foreign Relations Committee during his confirmation hearing on 29 September if F-16s were to be given to Pakistan and if so would the State Department consult with Congress? He replied that no decision had been taken on the issue so far.

President Bush replied “Absolutely not,†when asked by India Abroad last month in an exclusive interview whether the US would supply sophisticated weapons to Pakistan or enter into a defence and security partnership with the country that it had designated a “major non-NATO ally.†Sources told the Indian-American publication, it claimed, that even if Bush lost the election, he could still go ahead with the F-16 sale during his “lame duck†period.

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VOTE FOR BUSH IF YOUR AMERICAN :

 

[mysterious]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

I think, eventually, even if Kerry comes to the 'office', he'll have to provide F-16s to Pakistan to keep the goodwill and understanding between the two countries stable for the war of terror. :smokingc:

 

[SABRE]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

Kerry will only delay the progress.
Anyways as USA is deep neck into Afghanistan n in war against terror, it can not do it with out Pakistan so either of the candidates (winner) will have to provide Pakistan with Superior weapons, other wise with Bush gone mush will no longer be happy to work with Democrat's America. So he may demand few F-16s n ask America to open the gates for Gripens or Ef-2000

 

[P.A.F]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

http://www.deepikaglobal.com/ENG4_sub.asp?newscode=78555&catcode=ENG4&subcatcode=

Swedish defence commission arrives in Pak for security talks
Islamabad, Oct 29 (UNI) A 12-member Swedish fact finding defence commission today arrived here in Pakistan for talks on security scenario in South Asia.

The delegation comprising members from the Swedish ruling and opposition parties will meet President General Pervez Musharraf, Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz and other high ranking civil and military officials to obtain first-hand knowledge of the security situation in South Asia.

Leader of the delegation Hakan Juholt met Pakistani defence secretary retd Lieutenant-General Hamid Nawaz Khan, who briefed him on the ongoing composite dialogue between Pakistan and India, a statement issued by the Defence Ministry this evening said.

The two countries are set to hold second round of meetings on the eight agenda items in November-December, followed by a meeting between their foreign secretaries, also in December.

The next round of meeting will have an added significance in view of President Musharraf's recent porposal to demilitarise regions or a region of Jammu and Kashmir as an option to resolve the Kashmir issue.

Mr Khan briefed Mr Juholt on Pakistan's serious concerns on prevailing military imbalance between Islamabad and New delhi and said the international community must find ways to address these concerns.

Mr Juholt hoped that the delegation's visit would go a long way in strengthening relations between the two countries in all fields including defence.

Pakistani officials often took up the issue of buying Swedish Grippen aircraft and radars to equip its air force with latest frontline fighter aircraft.

The United States had recently shown willingness to sell 18 F-16s to Pakistan but a final decision is expected after presidential elections in America.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

Pakistani officials often took up the issue of buying Swedish Grippen aircraft and radars to equip its air force with latest frontline fighter aircraft.

Good grief, I can't believe that anyone would be silly enough to do that. It's the wrong entity to approach with respect to weapons purchases. They are an advisory board dealing with foreign affairs issues - not a weapons trade commission.

 

[P.A.F]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

just shows how desperate they really are : : :

 

[umair]

Or in reality the level of Pakistani defence reporters(seriously speaking a number of the members here would be better at doing their job) :roll
Grippens are an issue, the ERIEYES, as far as I know are on the way with the formal contract to be signed either in the remainder of this year or in early-mid 2005.

 

[corsair7772]

Or you could go for the good old 1973 style huge SAM network with lots of interceptors with elctronic support keepin a few for strike. Typical classic. :smokingc:

 

[ashoaib]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

The United States had recently shown willingness to sell 18 F-16s to Pakistan but a final decision is expected after presidential elections in America.

US is not a country which can be trusted. So no excitement for me in this news untill the actual deal will be finaled.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

US is not a country which can be trusted. So no excitement for me in this news untill the actual deal will be finaled.

Lets do a reality check here. There is almost none to minimal noise about F-16's in the US. The noise is coming out of Pakistani news reporters and a few irresponsible players who should know that these things are dealt with quietly - not in the open.

All the chatter about who knows what and who says what needs to be tempered with the reality that those who are in a position to know are saying "nothing".

It was the same with the Gripens - and the same with the submarines.

Wait for the official announcements from credible sources otherwise you'll have another example of bad "chinese whispers".

 

[VICTORA1]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?

Ashoaib,
U S of A is a country that can be trusted upto a certain extent, only one needs to learn how to use and take advantage of the situation. The U S and pakistan are of a two different ends of the spectrum you know----pakistani mindset is that of lovers forever. The americans on the other hand are looking for a quicky. How long you can entice them and keep them close to you, depends upon your skill level.

It is absolutely positively understood that they would dump pakistan at some stage as usual, but what pakistan needs to get out of this scenario is the maximum mileage. pakistan needs to squeeze this lemon dry as much as it can economically. Create economic stability, get american investment going and when the U S decides to turn its back, stop being lovers and become good friends. That is the american way. American partners break up, the love is gone, now they are friends. They have realized that it is economically not feasable to remain bitter after seperation. Pakistan needs to change its strategy---and pakistan can only change its strategy only if it realizes that the present situation may not lead to a greater success in the future.

 

[Paxter]

U know what i really think for countries that are still 3rd world (that is not an insault ok its a reality check malaysia too is techincally 3rd world) getting or dreaming of raptors, etc are really really a bad choice... cause you would get prob 18 raptors for the cost of prob 2.5 times that number of let say mig 29s... i agree that the fighters they currently use is really outdated and the issue that pakistan has side line it self buying american for so long getting russian jets would be a problem cause big daddy america will get a bit angry... i suggest something cheeper but still capable to sting the F-16 and mig 29 or su 27 or those within that price range.. well thats my 5 cents

 

[gf0012-aust]

i agree that the fighters they currently use is really outdated and the issue that pakistan has side line it self buying american for so long getting russian jets would be a problem cause big daddy america will get a bit angry...

Why would the US get angry? Pakistan has been buying French and Chinese platforms far longer than American aircraft overall - numerically and in recent terms - historically.