Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for? [Recent F-16 deal news, etc]
- Thread starter Mukesh Patel
- Start date
IThis is of more concern than the PAF history I posted earlier. It seems that PAF has had good Past but present & Future can be in grave danger.
New aircraft to be inducted into PAF
ISLAMABAD, June 30: The government is considering at least four alternate options to modernise its air force through induction of new fighter aircraft as no progress is expected on securing F-16s in immediate future.
Informed sources told Dawn on Sunday that Islamabad was seriously examining alternate planes from the United Kingdom, France and Russia and Switzerland is also said to have entered the competition.
The most probable options could be purchase of Mirage 2000-5 from France given existing strong defence ties between the two countries, these sources said adding the progress was expected during the forthcoming visit of President Pervez Musharraf to Paris.
The sources said Islamabad was likely to spend $12 to 15 billion for refurbishment and modernisation of its air force over the next five years to strengthen its air defence because of growing realisation among the defence authorities that ground military strength could be neutralised without an effective air defence.
Informed sources said that Pakistan had been working hard to purchase F-16s from the United States but the information became public before a deal could be finalised and the Indian lobby prevailed upon the US administration that it was bad time to provide F-16 to Pakistan that could, they argued, derail the peace process between the two countries.
These sources said the realisation was growing among the defence authorities that Pakistan's air defence had been a neglected sector and now required at least $12-15 billion to provide an effective protection to the country. So the air force was going to get a major focus in the coming years, said these sources.
They argue that Indian military power was being geared up menacingly against Pakistan and its offensive capabilities, particularly the series of its long and medium range surface-to- surface missiles and a large fleet of combat aircraft, could create a serious threat to Pakistan's security and safety.
They said while the Indian air force had grown to the extent of becoming the fourth largest air force in the world with latest inductions of SU-30 MKIs and Jaguars, the Pakistan Air Force has been reduced to being too weak owing to non-procurement of aircraft and other air weapons since later 1980s in the wake of Pressler Amendment.
The Indian Air Force consists of nearly 1000 aircraft. Of these, nearly 770 are front line fighters whereas 140 are second line fighters and combat capable trainers.
It contains 40 Mirage 2000-5 aircraft, 40 SU-30MKI aircraft, 93 Mig-29 interceptors and 88 Anglo-French Jaguar deep-strike attack aircraft. Especially with the recent acquisition of the SU-30MKIs, the IAF has tremendously improved its qualitative standing.
On the other hand, Pakistan Air Force has only 32 F-16 aircraft and a combat strength of a little over 400 fighter aircraft. Early and immediate induction of advanced multi-role force multiplier fighters into the PAF is the most urgent national requirement which could not be delayed or postponed any longer, these sources said.
Without strong air defence, Pakistani land and naval forces would be at a serious disadvantage when attacked by numerically superior enemy force supported by a well-equipped air force.
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New aircraft to be inducted into PAF
ISLAMABAD, June 30: The government is considering at least four alternate options to modernise its air force through induction of new fighter aircraft as no progress is expected on securing F-16s in immediate future.
Informed sources told Dawn on Sunday that Islamabad was seriously examining alternate planes from the United Kingdom, France and Russia and Switzerland is also said to have entered the competition.
The most probable options could be purchase of Mirage 2000-5 from France given existing strong defence ties between the two countries, these sources said adding the progress was expected during the forthcoming visit of President Pervez Musharraf to Paris.
The sources said Islamabad was likely to spend $12 to 15 billion for refurbishment and modernisation of its air force over the next five years to strengthen its air defence because of growing realisation among the defence authorities that ground military strength could be neutralised without an effective air defence.
Informed sources said that Pakistan had been working hard to purchase F-16s from the United States but the information became public before a deal could be finalised and the Indian lobby prevailed upon the US administration that it was bad time to provide F-16 to Pakistan that could, they argued, derail the peace process between the two countries.
These sources said the realisation was growing among the defence authorities that Pakistan's air defence had been a neglected sector and now required at least $12-15 billion to provide an effective protection to the country. So the air force was going to get a major focus in the coming years, said these sources.
They argue that Indian military power was being geared up menacingly against Pakistan and its offensive capabilities, particularly the series of its long and medium range surface-to- surface missiles and a large fleet of combat aircraft, could create a serious threat to Pakistan's security and safety.
They said while the Indian air force had grown to the extent of becoming the fourth largest air force in the world with latest inductions of SU-30 MKIs and Jaguars, the Pakistan Air Force has been reduced to being too weak owing to non-procurement of aircraft and other air weapons since later 1980s in the wake of Pressler Amendment.
The Indian Air Force consists of nearly 1000 aircraft. Of these, nearly 770 are front line fighters whereas 140 are second line fighters and combat capable trainers.
It contains 40 Mirage 2000-5 aircraft, 40 SU-30MKI aircraft, 93 Mig-29 interceptors and 88 Anglo-French Jaguar deep-strike attack aircraft. Especially with the recent acquisition of the SU-30MKIs, the IAF has tremendously improved its qualitative standing.
On the other hand, Pakistan Air Force has only 32 F-16 aircraft and a combat strength of a little over 400 fighter aircraft. Early and immediate induction of advanced multi-role force multiplier fighters into the PAF is the most urgent national requirement which could not be delayed or postponed any longer, these sources said.
Without strong air defence, Pakistani land and naval forces would be at a serious disadvantage when attacked by numerically superior enemy force supported by a well-equipped air force.
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Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????
PAF is in hurry. Buying Grippen means pilot trainings. Mirrage means almost already trained pilots. From Swiss there is no news. form France there is go ahead. So putting my self in Air Chief Marshal's place I would say buy those Mirage 2000-5 now & send team of pilots to Swiz for training on Grippen so we would by them later.
Man dont rush into things. ThinkP.A.F said:
PAF is in hurry. Buying Grippen means pilot trainings. Mirrage means almost already trained pilots. From Swiss there is no news. form France there is go ahead. So putting my self in Air Chief Marshal's place I would say buy those Mirage 2000-5 now & send team of pilots to Swiz for training on Grippen so we would by them later.
Here is another news.
Pakistan promisses to help Russia fight Chuchnians in return of a favor- a defence favor.
India has started to pull its hand away from Russia as it does not c it as a power any longer (friendz of means & interest) or atleast thats what Russia feels. As India is trying to go into US defence market, Pak is also going to Russian market.
Puttin did not deny any military help to Musharaf when he met him.
So there r chances that PAF might just get those MiG-29s & SU-27. If they do I hope they are first hand not used & PAF should also go for those Mirrage 2000-5 & mirage 2000-N (multi pilot fighter). May be even few grippens.
But we ought to wait till the budget session which is not far away. If defence gets away with big money than we have some nice lookin shiny Jets in PAF inventory
Pakistan promisses to help Russia fight Chuchnians in return of a favor- a defence favor.
India has started to pull its hand away from Russia as it does not c it as a power any longer (friendz of means & interest) or atleast thats what Russia feels. As India is trying to go into US defence market, Pak is also going to Russian market.
Puttin did not deny any military help to Musharaf when he met him.
So there r chances that PAF might just get those MiG-29s & SU-27. If they do I hope they are first hand not used & PAF should also go for those Mirrage 2000-5 & mirage 2000-N (multi pilot fighter). May be even few grippens.
But we ought to wait till the budget session which is not far away. If defence gets away with big money than we have some nice lookin shiny Jets in PAF inventory
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????
Anyways the PAF Chief is considering following Jets:
1)SU-27 (Few SU-35 & SU-37 aswell, i think)
2)MiG-29
3)Mirrage 2000-5
4)Grippen.
The PAF Chief may consider flying saucers from mars , this doesnt mean hes going to get them,
lets start with su-27, Russia is allready feeling tense about allowing the Chinese to use their rd-33/smr-95 engine in a design to be given to pakistan,
Never mind selling you their advanced designs.
Likewise the Mig-29 is a No No The Only chance Pakistan has for the mig-29 will come from one bought and then reverse engineered,
North Korea,Ukraine or Sudan may be willing to help pakistan out with this however it will take 8 years and it will be 20 years inferior.
Pakistan has eveluated the Mirage-2000 and when one figures in the cost per unit vs its ability in air to air vs russian aircraft It is markedly inferior.
Besides India is buying about 120-180 of them what good would it be to have 60 downspec' mirage 2000's vs the Indian mirage 2000's?
Gripen a NO BRAINER, Sweden will not sell you gripens no matter what your friends in south africa say, likewise BAE of the UK arent keen to sell you anything.
Pakistan should consider building new build cheetah/mirage3/5 aircraft to serve in an interm measure untill Pakistan will be allowed to buy j-10/j-11 aircraft
Anyways the PAF Chief is considering following Jets:
1)SU-27 (Few SU-35 & SU-37 aswell, i think)
2)MiG-29
3)Mirrage 2000-5
4)Grippen.
The PAF Chief may consider flying saucers from mars , this doesnt mean hes going to get them,
lets start with su-27, Russia is allready feeling tense about allowing the Chinese to use their rd-33/smr-95 engine in a design to be given to pakistan,
Never mind selling you their advanced designs.
Likewise the Mig-29 is a No No The Only chance Pakistan has for the mig-29 will come from one bought and then reverse engineered,
North Korea,Ukraine or Sudan may be willing to help pakistan out with this however it will take 8 years and it will be 20 years inferior.
Pakistan has eveluated the Mirage-2000 and when one figures in the cost per unit vs its ability in air to air vs russian aircraft It is markedly inferior.
Besides India is buying about 120-180 of them what good would it be to have 60 downspec' mirage 2000's vs the Indian mirage 2000's?
Gripen a NO BRAINER, Sweden will not sell you gripens no matter what your friends in south africa say, likewise BAE of the UK arent keen to sell you anything.
Pakistan should consider building new build cheetah/mirage3/5 aircraft to serve in an interm measure untill Pakistan will be allowed to buy j-10/j-11 aircraft
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????
LOL, Man I didnt lie about the list of Jets being considered by PAF Chief. I wrote what I read & I wrote that long time ago & yet ppl keep coming back to kick my behind. If you dnt believe me read it for your self heres the link.
http://pakistanairforce.8m.com/about.html
Here read the topic: PAF MAY GO FOR MIRAGE F-1 FIGHTERS.
Its the fourth topic.
I bring u a great PAF history about its F-16s & Afghan Pilots defecting from their country, I bring u a report on some thing that might worry others. No one responds to that & yet every one seems to come back to give me a kick on my A*S on the list of jets.
Well not every one. Atleast adsH & P.A.F have given some good response to my posts.
Now I haven the link to u. Read althose who dint trust me.
Specially the Libyan & mysterious
pakistanairforce.8m.com/about.html
Libyan said:
LOL, Man I didnt lie about the list of Jets being considered by PAF Chief. I wrote what I read & I wrote that long time ago & yet ppl keep coming back to kick my behind. If you dnt believe me read it for your self heres the link.
http://pakistanairforce.8m.com/about.html
Here read the topic: PAF MAY GO FOR MIRAGE F-1 FIGHTERS.
Its the fourth topic.
I bring u a great PAF history about its F-16s & Afghan Pilots defecting from their country, I bring u a report on some thing that might worry others. No one responds to that & yet every one seems to come back to give me a kick on my A*S on the list of jets.
Well not every one. Atleast adsH & P.A.F have given some good response to my posts.
Now I haven the link to u. Read althose who dint trust me.
Specially the Libyan & mysterious
pakistanairforce.8m.com/about.html
The Indian Air force has strongly recommended the purchase of 10 Mirage 2000-5 from Qatar, for which Pak air force has also expressed interest to procure.
(19.08.03)
LINK:http://www.pakakhbar.com/military/airforce/main.html
Yet another step towards mirrage 2000-5. I tell these Jets are definitly the next front line fighters for PAF.
(19.08.03)
LINK:http://www.pakakhbar.com/military/airforce/main.html
Yet another step towards mirrage 2000-5. I tell these Jets are definitly the next front line fighters for PAF.
& ya i forgot. Libyan why are u after this Chitah. You keep recomanding this jet over & over. Are u obbssessed or some thing with this Cheetah.
Dnt go after those F-16s get the Cheetahs
Dnt go after those Mirage 2000-5 get those Cheetahs
Russia is not going to give mig-29 & Su-27, 30, 35 get those Cheetahs
Ok I read the stats for Cheetah. I like it. Its good enough to be bought or Mirrages to be upgraded to it but its some thing that comes into PAF's WANT catogary not the NEED catogary
Dnt go after those F-16s get the Cheetahs
Dnt go after those Mirage 2000-5 get those Cheetahs
Russia is not going to give mig-29 & Su-27, 30, 35 get those Cheetahs
Ok I read the stats for Cheetah. I like it. Its good enough to be bought or Mirrages to be upgraded to it but its some thing that comes into PAF's WANT catogary not the NEED catogary
Revival_786
New Member
Man, since Pak has Major non-nato ally status the US still wouldn't give us the F-16s we paid for 
How good are the Mirage 2000-5? Comparable to the Eurofighter?
How good are the Mirage 2000-5? Comparable to the Eurofighter?
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????
Mirrage 2000-5 are good but comparing them to EF-2000...u might be breaking EF-2000s feelings.
Take about comparing F-22 & EF-2000 than there is some thing to talk about although we all know F-22 is going to win.
Anyways can some one really compare these two jets.
Mirrage 2000-5 are good but comparing them to EF-2000...u might be breaking EF-2000s feelings.
Take about comparing F-22 & EF-2000 than there is some thing to talk about although we all know F-22 is going to win.
Anyways can some one really compare these two jets.
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????
Not really, they are both generationally different. Comparing a netcentric Gen5 with a Gen4 and then taking into account the US battle philosophy of combined and integrated delivery makes any platform to platform comparison difficult.
There are numerous reports that show that the individual skill and committment of a pilot to prosecute an event can have far more impact on an outcome than on the type of platform they are in.
No offence intended to others with differing views, but platform to platform comparisons as an attempted measure of a countries superiority, has to be one of the weakest and most ineffectual ways to assess things.
Not really, they are both generationally different. Comparing a netcentric Gen5 with a Gen4 and then taking into account the US battle philosophy of combined and integrated delivery makes any platform to platform comparison difficult.
There are numerous reports that show that the individual skill and committment of a pilot to prosecute an event can have far more impact on an outcome than on the type of platform they are in.
No offence intended to others with differing views, but platform to platform comparisons as an attempted measure of a countries superiority, has to be one of the weakest and most ineffectual ways to assess things.
So how many hours of training do PAF pilots get each year?
Right now the countries that top the list are Israel, India and USA Israel being the highest and India and USA 2nd and 3rd respectively. Russia and China train their best pilots with lot's of hours but generally the rest don't get much top tier training.
I'm quoting all of this because 90% of the time the man matters and not the machine.
Right now the countries that top the list are Israel, India and USA Israel being the highest and India and USA 2nd and 3rd respectively. Russia and China train their best pilots with lot's of hours but generally the rest don't get much top tier training.
I'm quoting all of this because 90% of the time the man matters and not the machine.
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????
adsh, when most of the people talk about US, it automatically means UK too. With all due respect Uk is not that glorious nation anymore the way it use to be few decades back. So really taking name of UK specifically does not matter as everyone knows UK sits always in the lap of US.adsH said:
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????
What are the parameters of Quality training PAF? Indian training might have been inferior in past but it is not anymore. It flies more hours then PAF. Pilots are starting to get state of the art training negating the margin of PAF training long ago. Today India has more advance air-technology, numbers and training too. You can not make an impression because something was in favor of Pakistan in the past. You need to look at the present picture and then come up with the conclusion. PAF has lost its edge now and unless some strong steps are taken by Pakistan, this gap is going to increase day by day.P.A.F said:
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????
Soldier asusuall, u just come by now and gain with so much B*** S** about just random stuff we talk about, tell me how are we Lap babies when we are still one of the most competent Militaries in the world RAF is competent we produce the bulk of our High tech Equipment we have our own world recognized training doctrine, i don't see how you can take us in the shadow of our Ally US, we can stand alone if we need to but we'd rather work together, it not our fault that you (As indians) have a problem with every one in your region.Soldier said: