Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for? [Recent F-16 deal news, etc]

[ahashmi]

:help well if pakistan will go for jas-39 ......then what will be the arms it will going to carry.................. any choice/chance of integrating it with the weapons of french and chinese origin


can any body tell me the ECM on jas as compare to that of M2k 5/9 and rafale

 

[gf0012-aust]

:help well if pakistan will go for jas-39 ......then what will be the arms it will going to carry.................. any choice/chance of integrating it with the weapons of french and chinese origin


can any body tell me the ECM on jas as compare to that of M2k 5/9 and rafale

Gripens are NATO ported, that means that rails and software would have to be cut for Chinese weapons. Although the sidewinder and sparrow have been copied by the chinese, so one would assume that they might not have a big jump in rail design.

 

[ahashmi]

can any one draw a general conclusion ... which AC will be more capable in typical India Pak scenario.. rafale or Gripen

 

[gf0012-aust]

can any one draw a general conclusion ... which AC will be more capable in typical India Pak scenario.. rafale or Gripen

They have different design briefs. The Grip is a short range point defence fighter, the Rafale is capable of multitasking but is more focussed on strike in its current iteration. The Rafale has a greater potential for flexibility of mission.

 

[corsair7772]

Rafale is omnirole if thts wat u call it.

Pakistan doesnt need to have such a large number of hi tech fighters anyway. Just a few (65-75?) 4 Air defence and Strike while da rest of the jobs can be handled by mediocres like JF-17 and upgraded low tech fighters.

 

[SABRE]

Re: Who would sell pakistan NEW fighter jets???

France and China are the only countries which can sell aircrafts to Pakistan. And Musharraf, being from Army, negotiated Mirage 2000-5 deal with france for PAF.

What r u trying to say here?

Musharraf has negtiated the mirrage deal or should nigotiate the mirahe deal? If Musharraf has than the news has skipped me. plz tell

Anyways F-16s r back on the shopping list. Deal is on again & a better version has been asked for Pakistan. Lets see what USA does.
It would be good to see new variations of F-16 in PAF along with Mirage 2000-5, that is if Musharraf HAS negotiated the deal

My personal favorite Jet right now is EF-2000, may be we could negotiate a Deal with European Union for it. Seems unlikely but its not wrong in asking for it from EU.

1)F-16 = 120 (40 in the inventory, 80 currently on the deal & negotiation)
2)Mirage 2000-5 = 50+
3)EF_2000 = 12

182 great jets in the inventory of PAF. But its going to be any one of these Jets. So if I were to select I'll go for 80 F-16s of new variants as it would save lot of money & time for training the pilots as we already have F-16 pilots.

 

[corsair7772]

we have 32 in our inventory likely to drop 2 30 atleast by 2010. and a 120 are out of the question. Well be lucky go get atleast 16 or another 40. As for EF-2000 theres no point in inducting such a small number for such hi maintenance cost. Look at the indians. They inducted 40 M-2000 which had such a hi running cost tht they seriously began considering buying anuther 20 to take advantage of the existing infrastructure and for rationalizations. So we cant buy only 12 EF-2000s. Well need more n 4 tht well need more money. Once weve taken diplomacy n indian lobbying in2 account tht is.

 

[adsH]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????

The best thing about JAS-39 and eurofighter is that they are both true Swing role jets(i think thats what you were onn about CrossAir) where they can switch Battle modes from AIR-LAND-SEA in mid AIR, i am not sure about reconnaissance as all modern Expensive jets have some built Surveillance feeds(i think)(they would need PODS for committed Work), What i think is that Pak will again choose F-16 its the logical choice get block 50 or 60 if they can they have been designated MNNA status and are getting quiet abit out of the US so they may pop the question on a nice quiet romantic Dinner, after all, the relation is just about done right!! , But the question is not that they will get those new jets but if they will continue to get Support for those high tech Jets, those Birds could just as eailsy turn from a High performing AC mincer to an expensive Paperweight if uncle sam had a change of heart. so its this fine line the PAK has to walk to keep good realtions diplomacy, and that why Political stability is vital ,

Gains from PAF buying F-16 are enormous Political Economic and piece of mind. we all know Pak has spent Billions on the F-16 logistical infrastructure and spent at the least millions on pilot trianing all around they have invested heavily on these jets now to buy and induct a new generation/Brand of jet would mean PAF would go back to square one, so the best most economical option is to get Block 60 instead of mirrage 20005 mk2, they will end up being cheap like hell in-terms of induction cost that is the Bulk of the cost, and the US would obviously provide cheap financing for these jets so PAF CAN buy large amounts of those Jets and if the US offers discounts like subsidize purchases (like EYGYPT and ISRAEL) even better!!

 

[corsair7772]

The only sources we can get F-16s from are the Europeans who are phasing out there older F-16s like the Belgiums, The Israelis and the americans them selves.
The BElgians are feasible. So was Israel and we cudve gotten F-16 C,D or maybe even I if we hadnt been so stupid in not accepting Israel as a soveirgn nation like all the Arabs. Israel is one of the few countries tht can actually put pressure on the americans. The americans themselves are a lot harder to deal with and will only sell F-16s and evn Awacs if we send troops to IRAQ which is a joke if u take all our previous dealingsa with america in2 account.\
So i guess its bttr to forget the F-16 and consider the Chinese and the Ukrainians and perhaps the french. Evn if we dont get a TFL fighter we can build up a multitude of Chinese fighters from J-7 2 J-11.

 

[SABRE]

All i want to know is that has Musharaf got a deal on Mirage2000-5?

 

[mysterious]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????

I dont think he has. Otherwise, the Air Chief wouldn't be giving out interviews that include the prospective jets (Gripen, Mirage 2000-5 & J-10) and stuff. A deal was made in the late 90s but was put off. :smokingc:

 

[corsair7772]

i dont think we ever had a deal for M-2000s except for evaluations and all. but the radar was deficient in tracking low flying raiders and cupled with the cost and the bttr performance of the F-16 we chose the latter.

 

[P.A.F]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????

can we please forget about the F-16's because we r not going to get them. PAF are not gonna wait any longer for those jets.
in my point of view PAF sould just go for gripens or mirage 2000-5 or another french high-tech aircraft.

 

[adsH]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????

can we please forget about the F-16's because we r not going to get them. PAF are not gonna wait any longer for those jets.
in my point of view PAF sould just go for gripens or mirage 2000-5 or another french high-tech aircraft.

Look P.A.F""" , the Real PAF has a responsibility this is not a card game that can be lost and won again in the second round, the whole National defense is tied up with these decisions, so any bad or irrational or not well thought through decisions can cost, national defense or even an economical problems. inducting something completely new or something completely different and then building its logistics training pilot on conversion courses, costs an enormous Amount of money much more then its initial Purchase price, thats why Pak will try for those F-16 till the very last second, they sign the deal with any other third party!!

 

[P.A.F]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????

so your telling me that it's still possible for PAF to get those F-16's. YOU MUST BE MAD. we have died for those planes but we ain't got them yet. what else shall we do. wait another 10-50 years? i don't think so. it's time to move on mate. i doesn't matter about the costs. i'm sure pakistan would give as much money as it takes to defend the nation.

 

[adsH]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????

thinking logically does not mean your "MAD" look at the political situation look at the needs and then you can find the same reasoning i have found. i always thought PAF would never get those F-16, its true those F-16 are non-negotiable becasue they are now in use with the us NAVy and USAF. but they are willing to sell new one if the congress approves sales, so why not wait and let this MNNA staus do the all the work its supposed to do, Pakistan would end up saving billions which can be used towards-constructing a good economy and Improving other aspects of Lives of the people that actually live there, without compensating on Defense, whats the harm!! its not as if Pak needs those Mirage straight away any ways, they wouldn't even get them for a couple of years from the date they Sign the deal, and on the other hand the US if they get acces to the F-16 would be delivered under Priority deliveries like how the israelis got theres over the UAE f-16. Pakistan is a poor cash stricken nation ( i hate to admit this) but its a reality!! and just because they always finds means of getting out of the impossible does not mean they have to indulge them self in problems after problems . suppose if the Economy of pak takes a dive tomorrow, when they have those JAS-39 in operation!! and no one want's to give pak any more loans for the spare parts and there operations, then tell me how will pak Finance its defense budget, you need to save for the rainy days, they do come along once in a while. Pak has already spent billions on the F-16 infrastructure training of engineers and Pilot to operate this Jet, they can add another 100 of these with the same ammount it will take to induct 30-40 JAS-39 in the fleet and not to mention half the time scale, and you would know that, you would have no integration problem, pilots would not crash the AC. and that you would be able to keep these bird in air even if the Sky fell over them!!
Saying that PAF can spend as much as they want for the defense of Pakistan, just implies that you are not aware of the Fact that Pakistan has to cater for its population of roughly 140 million, alot of them don't have much to live on and alot of them are uneducated. health care is not of the best quality, Development is slow, Fanatics are sureing support creating communal rifts, there are other socio integrity reasons for those F-16, that you just can't read through a Piece of article.

 

[P.A.F]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????

the point i'm tring to make is that we haven't got time to wait for those F-16's. we can't be waiting for f-16's while india is signing a defence deal every bloody month. thats just foolish. secondly if india has got a variaty of aircraft why souldn't we. they have spend billions on new jets and look how all of that has paid of for them. there still a country full of poverty as well u know.
if the PAF keep screaming and screachin over those F-16's then i'm afraid that there's gonna be a major imbalance in south asia.

 

[adsH]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????

Yeah i can see your point too very valid but variety does not mean better, specialization may be better strategy. Pakistan has JF-17 coming inn to in the short run, High end fighters are no joke, its a decision that PAF has to stick with for another 2 decades at-least so they need to make sure they get the best deal, INdia has an economy and a trade surplus to burn on Military, Its not what you have its how you use it, and useing what you have to the maximum of its ability i s alot better then having an SU 30mki and not useing all its functionality. point is PAF has some time. India may be signing deals but those AC are not going to be delivered for a while, F-16 block 50/60 , i know are harder to get but its the best option, they will provide adequate defense and would be so cheap to run, let just wait till the june 30 announcement

 

[P.A.F]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????

My moneys on either the gripen or a french fighter.

 

[corsair7772]

Adsh is rite man. Think of it this way.

The PAF gets all wish washy on the F-16 and decides to dramatically dump the aircraft publicly to show the nation tht uncle sam can go sell fighters but he cant buy national pride. Ok dramatic move but no logic.
Now according 2 JDW the chinese have made BVR missiles capable of being fit on western aircraft for Iran and Pakistan INCLUDING F-16s. Now wats the use of the offer now tht weve dumped our F-16s? we shud keep em, try getting em re-built and acquire a safe source of F-16s and keep trying till the last minte. Other wise its you p.a.f whose gonna be cryin cuz of the new infrastructure cost. :cry