Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for? [Recent F-16 deal news, etc]

[Indus]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????

Eurofighter cockpit photo:

--> http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/ef2000/ef20006.html

Accha, hai na..

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????

I have only read about these Israeli F16Ds in passing. Can any one provide some detail how much different they are from Basic Two Seat Version.

All Israeli F-16D two-seaters (both Block 30 and Block 40 aircraft) have been fitted with enlarged dorsal spines. The spine is believed to be a hump to fit in EW equipment. They are believed to contain a "Wild Weasel" electronic suite. They also have enlarged navlight mounts on the intake.

Only the F-16D has the enlarged dorsal spine, the two-seat F-16B being similar to the USAF version.

A number of Israeli AF F-16Cs and Ds have also been upgraded to the Block 40 standard, with provision for LANTIRN and the ability to carry and launch HARM antiradiation missiles.

 

[moinanwer]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????

Thanks for the info gf

On the Following Link
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/ef2000/index.html#ef20006
it is stated that:

" Austria signed a contract for 18 Eurofighter aircraft in August 2003, to be delivered from 2007."

If this is any thing to go by with if the euro fighter is selected and ordered now it will take about 3 years to get a squadron up and running and it will take another 2 to 3 years to fully master them and make them war worthy. That it will be around 2009 to 2011 .

Do we have enough time :?

Is Their any other option which will take less time :?:

Admin edit, I did some surgery on your post to fix it up, hope you don't mind. gf

 

[Oqaab]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????

Is Their any other option which will take less time

French Rafale is there to compete with Eurofighter as far as exports are concerned. France offered its Rafale to many countries including India. I think Pakistan can buy this aircraft, with ToT, if possible.

 

[The Watcher]

Rafale with ToT for PAF would be great.. its going to help pakistans aviation industry as well and especially the jf-17 and its future variants.. eurofighter does seem a great great jet for paf but latest version of rafale would be 2nd choice.

 

[Indus]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????

I would be soooo jealous if PAF got Eurofighter.. It is the most beautiful fighter jet on the planet.. the ferrari of fighter jets.. whats the price tag anyway??

 

[saraab]

Rafale on ToT basis ? i dont see the possibility.
btw I sure would like that to happen.
Eastern economy with western touch 2 there wont be anyone to compete 2 2

 

[moinanwer]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????

Thanks for the info gf

On the Following Link
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/ef2000/index.html#ef20006
it is stated that:

" Austria signed a contract for 18 Eurofighter aircraft in August 2003, to be delivered from 2007."

If this is any thing to go by with if the euro fighter is selected and ordered now it will take about 3 years to get a squadron up and running and it will take another 2 to 3 years to fully master them and make them war worthy. That it will be around 2009 to 2011 .

Do we have enough time :?

Is Their any other option which will take less time :?:

Admin edit, I did some surgery on your post to fix it up, hope you don't mind. gf

I dont mind gf


About my last post I slept over it & now i think their might be two solution to it

1) Either on pg 1or pg 2 of this discussion some one mentioned about Ukrineian flankers about 10 million each, 40 of them with enough supplies, sparesand weapons will cost 700 to 800 million and could be delivered in 18 months, it will take two years to master them(we can get some chiniese piolits for two years mean while our pioliots will master them).it will free f16s for ground attack which was its primary role was supposed to be.
OR
2) Get about 40 used f16 from us or any european country.They will not require personel traning as we already operate them.

Still with both those options we will require about 60 to 80 of Either Euro Fighter or Rafael as high etch aircraft which could be purchased in small numbers over 10 ten to 15 years.
:idea2

any other bright ideas :roll

 

[Oqaab]

Rafale on ToT basis ? i dont see the possibility.
btw I sure would like that to happen.
Eastern economy with western touch 2 there wont be anyone to compete 2 2

Well, nobody gives complete technology of its product. So we can get technology of its Avionics, Engine, Machine gun (fire rate = 41 rounds/sec) etc. We can ask for 50 % Rafales technology. As Watcher said, we can upgrade our JF-17s aswell.

Another thing, If we got the technology, the refale will cost 50 million (or maybe less) to Pakistan. We can induct them in large numbers. :smokingc:

 

[saraab]

thats what i meant as well. the chinese avionics are'nt adored by PAF. Avionics changes were made almost everytime the planes were bought from china.
So if pakistan (somehow) gets some tech for avionics, it'll be more than good.

but again its a big IF. real BIG

 

[saraab]

(we can get some chiniese piolits for two years mean while our pioliots will master them)

hey moin since when did china started renting its pilots :lol

 

[moinanwer]

(we can get some chiniese piolits for two years mean while our pioliots will master them)

hey moin since when did china started renting its pilots :lol

Not renting but cooperating
where would they get a chance to actullay take on F16 in a Dact , because that can happen if they agree to help pakistan they can ask us to to play agressor in F16 to Su27 or Vice Versa.This will also give pakistan to develope Strategies
against InAF's Su30. :smokingc:

 

[joker]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????

On the issue of future PAF acquisition members here seem to be convinced that the PAF is evaluating the EF, Rafale and Gripen with strong suggestions that the EF is the front runner. Can those who have alluded to the above claim provide me with some form of evidence that the PAF has marked the EF as front runner. Im not asking for any links to a newspaper article or anything but just a solid rationale opinion of what has made you make such statements.

imo the PAF is going to push for second hand F16s and try and get a MLU. If that fails than they will invest the majority of resources into bulking up the air defence network, whilst continuing with the Thunder production and possibly even purchasing a small batch of J10s if the PLAAF will let us have first dibs on the aircraft. I dont think the EF, Rafale or the Gripen are any where on the cards. Post 2010 maybe but not now.

 

[mysterious]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????

I dont know which post was it but someone from the PAF who is a member of this forum said he had heard authoritative people in the PAF talk about future deals on Eurofighter. You can look up and see which post it was!

 

[Oqaab]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????

I was the one who claimed that.

Look, Mirage 2000-5 costs 45 million USD. PAF negotiated for this aircraft in april 2003. France agreed to sell this aircraft to Pakistan at a price of 50 million USD. But at the same time, France announced that its Rafale is available in the market. PAF didnt ordered any Mirage 2000-5s after this Rafale news. We all were expecting Rafales for PAF but after some time, DAWN reported that PAF is showing its interest in Eurofighter. Pakistan Institute for Air Defence Studies Website also claimed that Pakistan is interested in this aircraft (the site was last updated in 1999).

So, it is the media whos claiming this. Otherwise I think Rafale is better for PAF.

 

[umair]

Oqaab along with the media,I have also come to know from some very credible sources, that the Typhoon and Rafale are front runners for a new Tip Of The Spear fighter for the PAF and most probably the PAF will go for the Typhoon cause of the bias in the hierarchy for the Typhoon cause of technical and monetary reasons(read: French reluctance in reducing unit price on bulk orders).And I wager that the F-16 MLUs(if available) would be used as Mirage replacements.

 

[Arshad Malik]

Oqaab along with the media,I have also come to know from some very credible sources, that the Typhoon and Rafale are front runners for a new Tip Of The Spear fighter for the PAF and most probably the PAF will go for the Typhoon cause of the bias in the hierarchy for the Typhoon cause of technical and monetary reasons(read: French reluctance in reducing unit price on bulk orders).And I wager that the F-16 MLUs(if available) would be used as Mirage replacements.

i think chines j-10 is the better choice for pakistan due to its low price , and other air craft like rafale ero figters are very expansive

 

[Oqaab]

And I wager that the F-16 MLUs(if available) would be used as Mirage replacements.

F-16 MLU and the JF-17 will replace the mirages.

i think chines j-10 is the better choice for pakistan due to its low price , and other air craft like rafale ero figters are very expansive

Eurofighter will give PAF an edge over Indian Airforce. Keeping in view the policy of minimum capable deterence, I think Eurofighter's upgraded versions can also take care of Pak Fa.

 

[joker]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????

Thank You Oqaab and Umair although I am still a bit sceptical about the EF particularly considering the supply of spare parts. Lets not forget that even though it is a multinational European venture it was these very same countries that imposed sanctions upon us towing Washingtons line. But if a deal can be struck to guarantee the supply of spare parts than the EF is definately the one to go for rather than the Rafale.

Another thing, already covered in detail by Gf, is that without integration with force multipliers or smart SOWs, we'll be paying an extortionate amount of money for an aircraft that cannot offer anything significant over the Mirage Rose due to the absence of support assests. In order to realise the full potential of a high tech fighter like the EF/Rafale you cannot just pay for the aircraft but you have to pay for an entire network to support the aircraft. Which makes me even more sceptical of the EF/Rafale proposal materialising because to date I havent seen any concrete steps taken by the PAF to acquire/upgrade AEW+C, EW, C4I, inflight refueling, ELINT/SIGINT/Battlefield Surveillance or looking at the bigger picture increasing interoperability between the tri services (a problem that all 3 services are responsible for an not just the PAF) etc.

Umair in accordance to the silver bullet strategy designed by the late ACM Mushaf did your sources indicate how many EFs/Rafale the PAF is/will be negotiating for?

 

[joker]

Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????

The Pak FA is still in the concept stage. So far the Indian Mod have talked the talked but have failed to walk the walk.