The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

[seaspear]

Certainly Russian sources have mentioned heavy usages of motorcycles in attacks

Russian battalion attacks Ukrainian positions on off-road motorcycles

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armyrecognition.com

 

[Redshift]

While the Western Mainstream Media and EU still call Zelensky champion of democracy. Zelensky is just another Oligarchs back regime and basically Putin wannabe. I wrote that few years back and still stand on it. The funny thing is before the War, Western Mainstream media use to critize Ukraine democracy track record.

What total and utter nonsense.

Was Zelensky elected in a free and fair manner? Yes

Was Putin EVER elected that way? Maybe once long ago

To call Zelensky a Putin wannabe is laughable, this is his first term highly likely to end in an election as soon as the war is over. When did Zelensky initiate any form of conflict outside the borders of Ukraine?

Your usual tirade against the West .. well I think that is what we expect on here these days you just can't stop yourself.

And citing your own posts is NOT evidence of anything other than your own, seriously anti west, attitude.

Before Zelensky was elected there were very serious problem with the previous dodgy elections which bought a pro Russian president to power ego wax clearly not a true representative of the Ukraine people.

 

[seaspear]

When we discuss corruption lets not forget the Russian president

Is Vladimir Putin Richer Than Elon Musk? Read What Tesla CEO Said

Officially, Elon Musk's net worth is $204.7 billion, according to Forbes data. Though he is the CEO of six companies, reports say Vladimir Putin owns 20 houses, 700 cars, 58 aircraft and helicopters, and a $716 million plane.

www.ndtv.com

Putin's net worth 'rivals Elon Musk,' but 'cobweb' of bank accounts, assets hides his full value, expert says

Vladimir Putin's net worth could be as high as $200 billion with assets including a $1.4 billion palace estate dubbed "the new Versailles," a 250-foot yacht and a 750 acre forest compound.

www.foxbusiness.com

Just for balance

Here's How Much Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky Is Worth

But unlike his predecessor, Zelensky never was a billionaire. He’s currently worth roughly $20 million at most, based on reporting by Forbes Ukraine.

www.forbesmiddleeast.com

 

[rsemmes]

Enemy? Ukraine were never Russia's enemy they just weren't a slave state like Belarus and that was the problem Russia was attempting to solve with force.

They are at war, I am going to call them, both of them, "enemies".
Hint: That is how countries solve problems, by force; it is called History. After negotiations fail or without negotiations.

 

[rsemmes]

Do car bombs count as hybrid-warfare?

 

[Ananda]

Just for balance

Forbes is simply not a balance sources, just like many Western Mainstream media. On Zelensky they only calculate his show biz business or more precise his 'legit' business. However when taking on Putin wealth they are more calculating his "perceive" wealth base on some close Oligarchs business.

Where Is the Missing $100 Billion in U.S. Aid for Ukraine?

“I don’t know where all the money is"—CSIS expert Mark Cancian covers the facts behind Ukraine’s “missing” $100 billion.

www.csis.org

I can bring more hard right wing sources that blatantly claim on Zelensky corruption and his Oligarchs friends business profitering in this war. Off course the left wing supporters will claim it nonsense because it is coming from other side (even Western ones).

Thus let's put this CSIS report.In this report Zelensky claim his administration doesn't receive all the money US send. Well he just in sense admitted his administration is also corrupt. There's no way the money that's not receive by Ukraine 'legally', only being spend in US.

He's corrupt, his administration corrupt and he is in time if givin chance, will become another Putin. No doubt Putin is corrupt and his administration is full of Oligarchs interests. However saying Zelensky and his administration is not like that, is also delusional complete nonsense.

Zelensky is Democracy shining hope in Ukraine is nonsense. Still it is something that I continue see in day to day interaction with my Western colleagues. Especially from those who are vehemently believe on Mainsteam mostly Left Wing propaganda.

Perhaps Trump and his MAGA administration correct on this. This is a war between two Corrupt Oligarchs backed regime. US should back away and let them finish each other. It is more blatantly honest and much less pretentious approach.

 

[rsemmes]

“There is a realpolitik reality: any deal that can get Russia on board will look unfavorable to the Ukrainians. But within reason the Ukrainians will have to come to terms with something that may be second best to a deal they would have wanted two years ago,” another European diplomat said. “That is just where we are.”

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/04/24/politics/us-allies-alarm-ukraine-framework/index.html

Or, what deal will Ukraine get in two years time. A better one?

 

[Redshift]

They are at war, I am going to call them, both of them, "enemies".
Hint: That is how countries solve problems, by force; it is called History. After negotiations fail or without negotiations.

I'm sorry but that's just silly, Ukraine is at war because Russia attacked them.

When Russia attacked Ukraine then and only then, did Ukraine view Russia as an enemy.

You can use doublespeak all you like but it's just a good idea that somebody points it out for you.

To be honest this entire thread is becoming dominated by people like you and Kip and a few others who continually churn out the Russian states view of this war and it has become tiresome.

Your "hint" is both patronising and incorrect "history" is a description of things that happened and not a conclusive way of determining the meaning of current ongoing situations. History does not tell us that people attacked by others are enemies of those that attacked, even if this becomes so inconvenient the future.

Ukraine can be described as viewing Russia as an enemy purely and solely because Russia chose to attack them for no particularly good reasons other than wishing to dominate them and convert them into another Belarus.

 

[rsemmes]

I'm sorry but that's just silly, Ukraine is at war because Russia attacked them.
When Russia attacked Ukraine then and only then, did Ukraine view Russia as an enemy.
You can use doublespeak all you like but it's just a good idea that somebody points it out for you.
To be honest this entire thread is becoming dominated by people like you and Kip and a few others who continually churn out the Russian states view of this war and it has become tiresome.
Your "hint" is both patronising and incorrect "history" is a description of things that happened and not a conclusive way of determining the meaning of current ongoing situations. History does not tell us that people attacked by others are enemies of those that attacked, even if this becomes so inconvenient the future.
Ukraine can be described as viewing Russia as an enemy purely and solely because Russia chose to attack them for no particularly good reasons other than wishing to dominate them and convert them into another Belarus.

We agree, they are at war.
We agree, they are enemies. I don't know if Russia sees Ukraine as an enemy or as an ex-friend, a friend no more, a ceased to be a friend...
No-friend would be the actual neospeak, but I don't know if you meant "doublethink". Actually, I don't know what you mean...
Curiously enough, I think that there is too much wishful thinking in the thread, considering the reality on the battlefield; but I wouldn't say "dominated".
"Sorry, I only meant to scratch." History tells us that nations solve problems by the use of force.
We agree, again, they are enemies; being at war does that. I did not comment on the reason why.

 

[Vanquish]

They are at war, I am going to call them, both of them, "enemies".
Hint: That is how countries solve problems, by force; it is called History. After negotiations fail or without negotiations.

How sad, after all the wars throughout history if we haven't figured out by now how to get along through diplomacy then there clearly is no intelligent life on this planet.

 

[Vanquish]

Forbes is simply not a balance sources, just like many Western Mainstream media. On Zelensky they only calculate his show biz business or more precise his 'legit' business. However when taking on Putin wealth they are more calculating his "perceive" wealth base on some close Oligarchs business.

Where Is the Missing $100 Billion in U.S. Aid for Ukraine?

“I don’t know where all the money is"—CSIS expert Mark Cancian covers the facts behind Ukraine’s “missing” $100 billion.

www.csis.org

I can bring more hard right wing sources that blatantly claim on Zelensky corruption and his Oligarchs friends business profitering in this war. Off course the left wing supporters will claim it nonsense because it is coming from other side (even Western ones).

Thus let's put this CSIS report.In this report Zelensky claim his administration doesn't receive all the money US send. Well he just in sense admitted his administration is also corrupt. There's no way the money that's not receive by Ukraine 'legally', only being spend in US.

He's corrupt, his administration corrupt and he is in time if givin chance, will become another Putin. No doubt Putin is corrupt and his administration is full of Oligarchs interests. However saying Zelensky and his administration is not like that, is also delusional complete nonsense.

Zelensky is Democracy shining hope in Ukraine is nonsense. Still it is something that I continue see in day to day interaction with my Western colleagues. Especially from those who are vehemently believe on Mainsteam mostly Left Wing propaganda.

Perhaps Trump and his MAGA administration correct on this. This is a war between two Corrupt Oligarchs backed regime. US should back away and let them finish each other. It is more blatantly honest and much less pretentious approach.

I'm glad your still sitting on the fence.

 

[Redshift]

Forbes is simply not a balance sources, just like many Western Mainstream media. On Zelensky they only calculate his show biz business or more precise his 'legit' business. However when taking on Putin wealth they are more calculating his "perceive" wealth base on some close Oligarchs business.

Where Is the Missing $100 Billion in U.S. Aid for Ukraine?

“I don’t know where all the money is"—CSIS expert Mark Cancian covers the facts behind Ukraine’s “missing” $100 billion.

www.csis.org

I can bring more hard right wing sources that blatantly claim on Zelensky corruption and his Oligarchs friends business profitering in this war. Off course the left wing supporters will claim it nonsense because it is coming from other side (even Western ones).

Thus let's put this CSIS report.In this report Zelensky claim his administration doesn't receive all the money US send. Well he just in sense admitted his administration is also corrupt. There's no way the money that's not receive by Ukraine 'legally', only being spend in US.

He's corrupt, his administration corrupt and he is in time if givin chance, will become another Putin. No doubt Putin is corrupt and his administration is full of Oligarchs interests. However saying Zelensky and his administration is not like that, is also delusional complete nonsense.

Zelensky is Democracy shining hope in Ukraine is nonsense. Still it is something that I continue see in day to day interaction with my Western colleagues. Especially from those who are vehemently believe on Mainsteam mostly Left Wing propaganda.

Perhaps Trump and his MAGA administration correct on this. This is a war between two Corrupt Oligarchs backed regime. US should back away and let them finish each other. It is more blatantly honest and much less pretentious approach.

This not a war *between* anyone it is a war of aggression waged by one party only, namely Russia and Putin.
No doubt when China start flexing its muscles more firmly in the South China Sea you will describe all people resisting China as China wannabes and soplaude the USA when it abandons you all and leaves you to fight it out amongst yourselves as you wish upon Ukraine.

 

[swerve]

Forbes is simply not a balance sources, just like many Western Mainstream media. On Zelensky they only calculate his show biz business or more precise his 'legit' business. However when taking on Putin wealth they are more calculating his "perceive" wealth base on some close Oligarchs business.

Where Is the Missing $100 Billion in U.S. Aid for Ukraine?

“I don’t know where all the money is"—CSIS expert Mark Cancian covers the facts behind Ukraine’s “missing” $100 billion.

www.csis.org

I can bring more hard right wing sources that blatantly claim on Zelensky corruption and his Oligarchs friends business profitering in this war. Off course the left wing supporters will claim it nonsense because it is coming from other side (even Western ones).

Thus let's put this CSIS report.In this report Zelensky claim his administration doesn't receive all the money US send. Well he just in sense admitted his administration is also corrupt. There's no way the money that's not receive by Ukraine 'legally', only being spend in US.

He's corrupt, his administration corrupt and he is in time if givin chance, will become another Putin. No doubt Putin is corrupt and his administration is full of Oligarchs interests. However saying Zelensky and his administration is not like that, is also delusional complete nonsense.

Zelensky is Democracy shining hope in Ukraine is nonsense. Still it is something that I continue see in day to day interaction with my Western colleagues. Especially from those who are vehemently believe on Mainsteam mostly Left Wing propaganda.

Perhaps Trump and his MAGA administration correct on this. This is a war between two Corrupt Oligarchs backed regime. US should back away and let them finish each other. It is more blatantly honest and much less pretentious approach.

You either haven't read or haven't understood the CSIS article. To quote from it . . .

Q3: So, what happened to the “missing” $100 billion?

A3: The short answer is that it is not missing.

To start - it's approved money. It hasn't yet all been spent. A lot of what has been spent has been spent outside Ukraine, e.g. on supplying Ukraine with information, or on buying stuff to be sent to Ukraine that hasn't yet been delivered, or has been ordered but not yet finished. Unless Zelensky's requesting & then reading detailed reports on exactly what's being spent, more detailed than I expect any of the aid donors are actually likely to be giving to Ukraine, he won't know exactly what's happening to all the money. I doubt all that information has been supplied to Ukraine, & if it was it'd probably take more time to read than there are hours in the day.

How you get from that to "he just in sense admitted his administration is also corrupt", I don't know.

Zelensky pays taxes & submits a public annual "Declaration of income", in line with Ukrainian law. Putin's presidential pay is public, but he has palaces, he wears watches that cost more than his declared annual income (& he has a lot of them), and so on. There's no evidence that Zelensky has any of that.

 

[Fredled]

In '14 Russia really could roll in and expect entire units to surrender and many local governments to shrug and simply accept the change in management. In '22 that was no longer the case.

I would go even further: Russia could have annexed or afiliated Crimea and the Donbas with democratic means... had they been patient and clever enough, with good advertising. They made a referedum which was not recognised while they could have won in a recognised referendum.

They have to give up the only real leverage they have over Ukraine, continuation of hostilities.

Yes and no. Yes, because in practice, it will give Ukraine a much needed relief. No, because, it's not really something they give or give back.
Also keep in mind that Ukraine too would give up the only real leverage they have over Russia, in the same way. Russian troops also need a relief. it's not 0%-100%. it's rather 30%-100%.

If Ukraine took this peace deal, then Ukrainian naval operations off the coast of Crimea would be a provocation, but so would Ukrainian military operations in or against any occupied areas that aren't recognized as Russian.

If we are talking about a truce or an agreement not to attack the other anymore and Ukraine is blatantly breaching this agreement, then yes. But it's more complicated than just black or white. If both parties gradually test the other and if the tit for that degenerates, then the fact that a territory under attack was recognised, not only by Ukraine but by the international community as Russian could be a strong argument against Ukraine in the diplomatic war. if it's not recognised, well, it's just Ukraine recovering its sovereignty over its own territory.

The other thing is the irreversibility of such decision. If they recognise it, it means that they can forget about this terroritory for ever. For ever. If they don't, then there is still a small hope that in 10 or 20 years things will change so much that this land will be back to Ukraine, maybe peacefuly, or that this land will be independant from Russia and independant but friendly to Ukraine if they decide so.

Ok, out of the 5 provinces Russia controls most or all of, which do you consider the least recoverable? Don't forget to factor in which areas Russia will be willing to go the farthest to defend.

Military speaking, I think that they are all evenly almost unrecoverable with the current forces Ukraine has at their disposal now. That Russia would go as far as it takes for any of the oblast.
Mariupol, Zaporyzhia and Kherson are less accessible because of the Surovikin Line as we have witnessed in 2023, but there are more Russian troops in the Donbas.

If Ukrainians can break the Surovikin Line it would be very difficult for the Russians to resuply their troops south of Kherson and in Crimea. If Ukrainians see a possibility of this to happen, they will also blow up the Kerch Bridge for good.
By contrast, in the Donbass, resupply can flow uninterrupted by the multiple routes thanks to the absence of natural barrier. It's basically like attacking Kursk.

NATO membership means the potential for NATO offensive facilities stationed there.

There is no such a thing as "NATO offensive facilities". If Russians keep quiet, NATO keeps quiet. That's the basis.

And if the deal is signed, and the war is done, what exactly would prevent Ukraine from signing these agreements with France, Germany, and the UK?

Putin could prevent it by requiring explicitely that this won't happen. It will depends on the wording, but if we have someting like "not with NATO or with any NATO member", then legally, it's prevented.

If Europe is willing, Russia won't be able to do much about it.
....
I don't think Ukraine can domestically mass-produce APCs, IFVs, MBTs, or complex AA. I think in those areas Europe will have to step up.

That's the whole point of the discussion around the tables. That's precisely what Europe wants and Russia doesn't want. Trump's America also doesn't want that because Trump wants his peace deal no matter the outcome. He wants the peace deal because he wants to make businees with both Russia and Ukraine. But Europe would like the US to participate in the defense of Ukraine. And they won't get that with Trump. So the big question is: Will Europe be able to do it? Honestly, I can't answer this question.

They're losing population

Yes and no. Ukrainians outside Ukraine are still firmly Ukrainians. Even if they don't want to come back to their country now, they still support it. Many will come back once the war is over. Because people like their country, and also because social aid for the refugees will be cut.

Unless Ukraine has a path to victory, they need to negotiate before things get worse for them.

They don't have a quick path to victory but they know that things are not going to suddenly unravel in the short distance. As long as they can resist, they will resist.