Russia-Georgia Conflict: News From the War zone

[eckherl]

Russian women welcoming the troops home from Georgia.:shudder

 

[Chrom]

Russian women welcoming the troops home from Georgia.:shudder

They are Ukrainians Sevastopol ")

 

[Feanor]

They're Russians. Just living in Ukraine. But other then that, yes. Too bad they weren't a little..... younger.

 

[Black Legion]

Does anybody have information with what SAM system did the Georgians shot down the Russian Tu-22?

Here's some video that says the Tu-22 was shot down by a S-300 system that was loaned from Ukraine, anybody know something about this?

 

[Feanor]

There are claims about Ukranian S-200 systems and crews, but no S-300. Most like it was a Buk-M1 that shot it down.

EDIT: Looks like things are heating up again. Russian Soviet of the Federation just recognized S. Ossetia and Abkhazia independence. It now awaits Medvedev's signature.

Georgian forces have begun re-organizing, and shots were fired in the direction of several Ossetian villages. This all happened at the same time as the arrival of an American ship. Also apparently Russian forces have left their positions near Poti. The situation is getting tense.

 

[merocaine]

From the news: Russian military is forced to medieval times, where you
are not accepting the humane peace claiming. Or no. Punishment is in line
with war-claims. True barbaric behaviour, hit the face and hit ass as far as
when guys are falling to the ground.

Who's gonna bring or introsuce rusia and geogia to the modern civilization ?

Extract; medieval corporal diary.

Stealing, next railway mines, and peace is obscure for russian ?

Babel Fish?

 

[Firehorse]

Mod, please delete this. Thanks!

 

[Firehorse]

Does anybody have information with what SAM system did the Georgians shot down the Russian Tu-22?

Here's some video that says the Tu-22 was shot down by a S-300 system that was loaned from Ukraine, anybody know something about this?

Here is your answer:

The heavier SA-11 Buk-1M also appears to have contributed to the Frogfoot strike-fighter losses and was certainly the cause of the Backfire bomber's loss, say U.S.-based analysts.
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gene...=Georgian Military Folds Under Russian Attack

9K37M1 BUK-1M / SA-11 GADFLY / SA-N-7 GADFLY
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/sa-11.htm

TU-22M3s were at too high altitudes for anything else the Georgians had!

August 25, 2008
Georgian President Vows to Rebuild Army
By C. J. CHIVERS and MICHAEL SCHWIRTZ
TBILISI, Georgia — President Mikheil Saakashvili of Georgia said Sunday that he planned to rebuild his country’s shattered army, and that even after its decisive defeat in the war for control of one of Georgia’s two separatist enclaves he would continue to pursue a policy of uniting both under the Georgian flag.

“It will stay the same,” he said of his ambition to bring the enclaves, South Ossetia and Abkhazia, under Georgian control. “Now as ever.”

Also on Sunday, France called an emergency summit meeting of the European Union for next Monday to discuss “the future of relations with Russia” and aid to Georgia, according to a statement from the French president, Nicolas Sarkozy.

The meeting was framed as a response to Russia’s failure to meet the terms of the cease-fire agreement that Mr. Sarkozy had negotiated between Moscow and Tbilisi. Mr. Sarkozy, in a statement, said he was responding to the demands of “several states” for the summit meeting, which will deal with “the crisis in Georgia” and take place in Brussels.

According to senior French officials who helped negotiate the cease-fire agreement, the Russians must pull all their troops back to positions before the crisis began on Aug. 7.

The Russian troops stationed in South Ossetia and Abkhazia before that date may stay, and may continue to send out patrols into a “security zone,” a thin buffer roughly five miles beyond the enclaves’ borders.

But the Russians are not allowed to set up fixed positions in the security zone — an agreement that Russia has not adhered to, Mr. Sarkozy said Friday in a telephone call with President Bush.

In the Georgian Black Sea port of Batumi, the first American naval vessel arrived Sunday to distribute American humanitarian aid.

A train carrying oil cars exploded while traveling near Gori, the city in central Georgia that Russia had occupied for about 10 days. Georgian officials said the train had struck a mine left behind by Russian troops. No one was reported killed in the blast or the raging fire that followed, which sent thick plumes of black smoke across the countryside.

With the bulk of Russian troops now withdrawn to the enclaves or to Russian soil, Mr. Saakashvili described the war against South Ossetia and Russia — a military defeat that imperiled his government and threatens Georgia’s fragile economy — as a seminal moment that offered the seeds of political and national success.

In an interview in his office that stretched until nearly 2 a.m., Mr. Saakashvili said that Georgia had gained allies in the world and would embark upon a campaign of rebuilding.

He predicted continued American support and said that he spoke by phone with the presumptive Republican nominee for president, Senator John McCain, as often as twice a day, and that he was in regular contact with Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., who has been picked to run for vice president on the Democratic ticket.

He also said that the Bush administration had not communicated disappointment or signaled a decline in its support for him since he gave the order on Aug. 7 to attack Tskhinvali, the South Ossetian capital.

He said that while he might face pressures in the months ahead, as the effects of the war ripple through the economy, he said he expected to weather any troubles. “There has been tremendous solidarity,” he said.

The Kremlin has characterized Mr. Saakashvili as delusional and dangerous.

Sitting in his office as he discussed the effects of the war — tens of thousands of refugees; the scattering of a national army that abandoned its dead and its hardware on the battlefield; the loss of territory to Russia and the hardening of separatist sentiment in the enclaves — he seemed prepared to resume the policies that had set Georgia and Russia at odds.

He also said that he had made a decision not to continue to fight Russia during the invasion, and not to have his army organize an insurgency against Russia, because he hoped to save the country.

“We had a choice here,” he said. “We could turn this country into Chechnya — we had enough people and equipment to do that — or we had to do nothing and stay a modern European country.”

He added: “Eventually we would have chased them away, but we would have had to go to the mountains and grow beards. That would have been a tremendous national philosophical and emotional burden.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/25/world/europe/25georgia.html?th=&emc=th&pagewanted=print

Apparently he is getting ready to try again!

CG Moskva left for Eastern Black Sea again! Officially, for "planned yearly training and verification of EW & communication gear capabilities". http://www.kp.ru/online/news/131632/print/

My guess it's to monitor these:

"There are currently 9 NATO ships in the Black Sea- 2 USN, 1 Spanish, 1 Polish, 1 German, 4 Turkish"
http://armstass.su/?page=article&aid=59012&cid=25

 

[eaf-f16]

He also said that he had made a decision not to continue to fight Russia during the invasion, and not to have his army organize an insurgency against Russia, because he hoped to save the country.

“We had a choice here,” he said. “We could turn this country into Chechnya — we had enough people and equipment to do that — or we had to do nothing and stay a modern European country.”

He added: “Eventually we would have chased them away, but we would have had to go to the mountains and grow beards. That would have been a tremendous national philosophical and emotional burden.”

This guy is delusional. There is a very big difference between Chechens and Georgia's army.

The Chechens fight so hard because of ideology (dying in battle is seen as the most desirable death in Islam) and of course their proficiency with small arms and tactical know-how. These characteristics enabled the Chechens to offset Russia's huge military advantage over them.

But Georgians neither want to die in battle to achieve their objectives nor are they so good at fighting.

And what does he mean by "go into the mountains and grow beards"? Does he think Chechens get super-powers from their beards? nfloorl:

I also found his comment about Georgia being a "modern European country" to be a very interesting one. Ethnic nationalism isn't what I would consider to be modern. Georgia's culture is actually pretty backwards.

Edit: I've been having trouble posting/editing for the past couple of days. Is anyone else having trouble with this or is it just me?

 

[Firehorse]

Yes, I was trying to edit a post on another tread and it got deleted instead. Reading Mr. Saakashvili remarks leaves no doubt that he is now more dangerous to his own people than anyone else. The Russians will no doubt use his next moves to justify their own countermeasures.

 

[Feanor]

Things seem to be on an escalating course. The Moscow (flagship of the Black Sea Fleet) left Sevastopol again supposedly for "routine training". Abkhazia reports sightings of Georgian troops massing on the Georgian side of the border, by the Kodori Gorge. A number of Georgia police officers were arrested when they were found inside of S. Ossetia.

The Russian Duma has also decided to recognize independenc of the two republics. Now we're only one signature away from official Russian recognition internationally. A number of foreign leaders, including Bush, have directly said that Medvedev should not recognize the republics because it would lead to many complications.

 

[nevidimka]

Things seem to be on an escalating course. The Moscow (flagship of the Black Sea Fleet) left Sevastopol again supposedly for "routine training". Abkhazia reports sightings of Georgian troops massing on the Georgian side of the border, by the Kodori Gorge. A number of Georgia police officers were arrested when they were found inside of S. Ossetia.

The Russian Duma has also decided to recognize independenc of the two republics. Now we're only one signature away from official Russian recognition internationally. A number of foreign leaders, including Bush, have directly said that Medvedev should not recognize the republics because it would lead to many complications.

Bush can fly kites. This is a "special case", which warrants independence.

The things he has uttered throughout this conflict makes it look like ppl in the rest of the world morons and idiots who lives in caves, and cant think.


Anyways..regarding the conflict, china just finished olympics, so now they are gonna discuss in parliment regarding the independence or the 2 region.

I'm wondering where does China stand on this conflict? Also where does Romania stand on this issue? So far Poland,Ukraine,Baltic states have all voiced anti Russia slogans, but what about Romania? Another black sea nation and former WP country?

 

[Feanor]

Well the Czech and Slovaks weren't so eager to back Georgia, and even Poland isn't unilateral about it, where their own Ministry of Foreign Affairs contradicted their president.

 

[kato]

Romania was delivering weapons to Georgia's army, and is now delivering humanitarian aid. And "supports Georgia's aim to join NATO".

Bulgaria is riding the fence sorta, and delivering both humanitarian aid, and donating to South-Ossetian refugees that had to flee to Russia through the UN. Also, claims the conflict will "not negatively affect Sofia-Moscow relations", and that "the balanced approach of France is probably the best one".

 

[Feanor]

Merkel has voiced active support for Georgia NATO membership, saying that they should be given the roadmap for membership. Finally the US released a statement which hinged further Russia-US relations on the Russian decision to recognize or not recognize the independent regions.

 

[Sampanviking]

Bush can fly kites. This is a "special case", which warrants independence.

The things he has uttered throughout this conflict makes it look like ppl in the rest of the world morons and idiots who lives in caves, and cant think.


Anyways..regarding the conflict, china just finished olympics, so now they are gonna discuss in parliment regarding the independence or the 2 region.

I'm wondering where does China stand on this conflict? Also where does Romania stand on this issue? So far Poland,Ukraine,Baltic states have all voiced anti Russia slogans, but what about Romania? Another black sea nation and former WP country?

So far the news of the crisis in the Chinese media has been presented in a "neutral" manner, but always from the Russian perspective (simply google Xinhua to find examples), just as the BBC has presented a "neutral" view but form the US/Georgian perspective.

As for China's greater policy on this and other linked issues, you may only have to wait a couple of days until the SCO heads of State Summit in Dushanbe on the 28th. I suspect it will be a humdinger this time round!

 

[kato]

Merkel has voiced active support for Georgia NATO membership, saying that they should be given the roadmap for membership.

Merkel's actions are driven by German interior politics though.

The "hot" campaigning season starts next month in Germany, for the elections next year - and all parties are starting to position themselves for that.
In addition to that, there are currently attempts to enforce a change of government in Hessen still, and state elections are up in Bavaria next month - traditionally conservative, but the CSU might lose their absolute majority.

Hence why everyone is voicing pretty distint opinions on this, and positioning themselves - and, interestingly, even in a pretty traditional spreading: CDU/Merkel pro-US/NATO and pro-Georgia; CSU following, but a bit more cautious on the US/NATO thing; SPD/Steinmeier and the Greens with a somewhat more critical voice, and a better opinion of Russia; the Left Party of course pro-Russia. The surprise is the capitalist-liberal FDP, which opposes NATO membership for Georgia "at the moment", but then they've always been kinda flaky.

Foreign politics drive German campaigning, been that way since the 70s.

 

[Kosovo=Serbia]

This is a "special case", which warrants independence.

Is Bush your father, or some close relative, cuz you are talking just like he,
but never mind, its happened... just like I wrote... and I will write it again,
not only S.O and Abkhazia, but many many many other regions will try to
catch the train, I am sure...
I believe in the next few years, Nagorno-Karabakh,Albanians movement in FYR Macedonia, Montenegro and Greece, then Transnistria, Taiwan,Basque,Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, Republika Srpska, will try or manage to become independent...I am happy we leave it behind, and if we pull throught next year without violence and shitts, I can enjoy my
youthfulness
spending time with girls and junket with friends, instead languish dirty in the
forest and ramble wet in the mountains, and once in a while turn on TV
and watch foolishness in the fire, and I will only roar with laughter, sneer ,
because whole world will realize that sheriff M U S T N O T be above the
law, and hope the community will sober and F I N A L L Y act properly.
Special case ???!!! nfloorl: nfloorl: nfloorl:
There will be dozens of special cases then, and no one will know which one
is more special than another nfloorl:
Oh man, when will that Adolf go back to hell !!!

 

[Kosovo=Serbia]

BTW, people of Republic South Ossetia and Republic of Abkhazia happy day of independence, and congratulation , you leave it behind too, well done !
We can now sit and watch, and laugh loud. . .
And you should thanks only to one man for that, believe me
There is he, siting next to his brother Hitler

 

[windscorpion]

Terrific, the Eurovision Song Contest will be even longer.

You are right though, precedent gives people encouragement.