Russia-Georgia Conflict: News From the War zone

[Feanor]

So in a more indepth response (I was a little constrained in time earlier); the Russian troop column that left Gori earlier seems to have grown in size to over 40 vehicles, and has already passed Ts'hinvali. It's heading for the Russian border. Russian continues to state that most of the Russian Army will withdraw out of Georgia proper by August 22nd. The point of contention seems to be that Russia interprets the 6 points to allow for Russian troops to be in a buffer zone inside Georgia proper near S. Ossetia, while the west expects complete withdrawal. The full list of captured Georgia equipment includes 65 tanks, 15 BMP-2's, and a number of other equipment. Russian Ministry of Defense has stated that it has destroyed 15 Georgian boats, including torpedo boats.

 

[JohanGrön]

U.S. analysts' found russian operational and technological weaknesses

U.S. government officials and analysts have been poring over open-source literature to gather operational and technological clues to events in the Georgia-Russia conflict. The opinions are coming from current and recently retired senior military commanders, and appear in Russia's Independent Military Review, other defense related publications, as well as in Russian news agency reports.

Maj. Gen. Marat Kulakhmetov, commander of the Russian peacekeeping forces in South Ossetia, is being fingered as ignoring the massing of Georgian tanks, artillery and troops near Tskhinvali on Aug. 7
...
Lack of preparation also plagued the Russian air force ... for not immediately launching an air attack to blind Georgia's radar and reconnaissance capability and then shatter command and control.

The resulting confusion in Russia's command and control was pointed to as the reason that Russia's air force took so many losses, including a number of Su-25 Frogfoot close-attack aircraft, possibly an Su-24 and a front-line, high-performance Tu-22M aircraft that may have been either a bombing or reconnaissance variant operated by the Black Sea Fleet.

More precisely, Russian intelligence failed to analyze the numbers, locations and capabilities of the Georgian air defenses
...
As a result, Russian pilots went into combat expecting no resistance. Secondly, there was no campaign to eliminate the Georgian air defense or air force. Finally, there was no reason to use a strategic bomber like the Tu-22
...
Radar-killing missiles were not used on the Georgian air defenses, despite their availability, which meant that Russian aircrews could not use their precision stand-off weapons without being in range of Georgia's SA-11 air defenses.
...
The Russians made little or no use of its space-based surveillance ... the initial use of older T-62 tanks and lightly armored personnel carriers caused unnecessary casualties ... the rough terrain and heavy vegetation of Georgia foiled the long-range use of laser-guided weapons.

link

 

[Pro'forma]

From the news: Here is nonsense blaming stronger in the air. How
anyone can call this "protective" forcing, while civilians are
forced to change the country and hometown. Ethnic cleansing ?
Nothing to do with peace.

By the way, here russian divorce of nato is not going to happen.
New negotiating table.

 

[KGB]

Maj. Gen. Marat Kulakhmetov, commander of the Russian peacekeeping forces in South Ossetia, is being fingered as ignoring the massing of Georgian tanks, artillery and troops near Tskhinvali on Aug. 7
...
Lack of preparation also plagued the Russian air force ... for not immediately launching an air attack to blind Georgia's radar and reconnaissance capability and then shatter command and control.

Hmm, evidence that the Georgian operation was not a trap set by Russia. However it must be said that to this day some folks believe that Pearl Harbor was deliberately sacrificed to the Japanese in order to facilitate entry of the US into ww2.

Everyone remembers 'remember the Maine'.

 

[Feanor]

VVS operational tempo was very bad. Georgian should not have had a single aircraft in the sky above the conflict zone after the first 24 hours. Instead as late as the 3rd day into the conflict Georgian Su-25's were still doing strike missions, and gunships were doing strikes on Ts'hinvali. Ridiculous.

 

[eckherl]

VVS operational tempo was very bad. Georgian should not have had a single aircraft in the sky above the conflict zone after the first 24 hours. Instead as late as the 3rd day into the conflict Georgian Su-25's were still doing strike missions, and gunships were doing strikes on Ts'hinvali. Ridiculous.

Yes - I am in agreement with you, there was no reason why the Russian Air Forces could not of had total control of the skies with in 24 hours. Are there any complete numbers on the amount of aircraft lost by Russia that has been verified.

 

[merocaine]

4 confirmed knocked down, Georgians claim 10, might have tagged a few that managed to limp home.

 

[Waylander]

Just for clarification.

Aren't the Tu-22M3s considers tactical and not startegic assets by the Russians?

And I agree that the performance of the VVS was not that spectacular. Ok it was enough to make a retreating mob out of the Georgian units falling back to Tiblisi, though.

 

[ROCK45]

Knockdown

merocaine you mentioned four being knockdown do you know the breakdown of types? Thanks

 

[Chrom]

Just for clarification.

Aren't the Tu-22M3s considers tactical and not startegic assets by the Russians?

And I agree that the performance of the VVS was not that spectacular. Ok it was enough to make a retreating mob out of the Georgian units falling back to Tiblisi, though.

It is in between. From formal point of view, for treaties purposes - it is tactical. But we all know what it have quite good range and its main weapon is long-range cruise missiles.

 

[eaf-f16]

merocaine you mentioned four being knockdown do you know the breakdown of types? Thanks

Three Su-25's and one Tu-22M3, IIRC.

 

[Firehorse]

When posting, be certain to abide by the forum rules, particularly #2. When posting a link or list of links, a line explaining or describing what the link goes over is insufficient and is still considered a "one-liner" reply.
This is your second warning, one more and you will be off to ban-land for good.

 

[Feanor]

For the Backfire's, I guess it depends on the armament. The Tu-22M shot down was supposedly on a recon flight. That would make it a Tu-22MR. I don't have time for a more indepth search, but wiki claims that a certain 11th independent air recon regiment flies the Tu-22MR in the N. Caucus MD, which would make it tactical aviation.

I'll do a little more digging later and tell you if I get it confirmed.

 

[kato]

Unless Poland is suddenly pulling ships out of their hat (... and they don't exactly have a lot), that refers to the SNMG1 deployment to the Black Sea in general.

The NATO deployment consists of:
- SPS Adm. Juan de Bourbon (F100, Spain)
- FGS Lübeck (F122, Germany)
- USS Taylor (OHP, USN)
- ORP General K Pulaski (OHP, Poland)
and will visit Constanta, Varna and Istanbul in that order. Nowhere near Georgia.

And the Canadian deployment has been denied:
http://news.yahoo.com/story//nm/20080819/wl_canada_nm/canada_georgia_ossetia_canada_blacksea_col_1

The only ships heading for Georgia are the two USN ships and that USCG cutter.

edit:
The Canadian frigate in question is the HMCS Ville de Quebec, a Halifax. She'd be the only unit of SNMG1 not to join in these maneuvers in the Black Sea.

 

[Feanor]

So Russian troops have completed withdrawal. Only a peacekeeping contingent is left in S. Ossetia, with 18 posts on th border between S. Ossetia and Georgia. Georgian police has assumed control over Gori. 500 peacekeepers are left in the conflict zone. As far as I can tell, no Russian forces are left in Georgia proper. However the political fallout is far from over.

 

[Firehorse]

When posting, be certain to abide by the forum rules, particularly #2. When posting a link or list of links, a line explaining or describing what the link goes over is insufficient and is still considered a "one-liner" reply.
This is your second warning, one more and you will be off to ban-land for good.

I thought that news treads don't exclude one-liners!
In that deleted post, one link had an article mentioning the TU-22s doing SEAD-related work. http://www.apn.ru/publications/article20642.htm

And as I wrote,

Russia has denied any plans to annex Georgian territory, saying it only wants to protect South Ossetia and Abkhazia from a pro-Western Georgian leadership. But it also says it is hard to envisage those regions returning under Georgia control.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080823/wl_nm/georgia_ossetia_dc_212;_ylt=AgC.bAy1e4Zzn90AZBpos2pn.3QA

More on the NATO ships movements into the Black Sea-
http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=151006&bolum=102

Even though that naval exercise was planned before the "5 Day War", they may be kept there to ensure the delivery of supplies to Georgia and as a show of support. And according to Gen. Nogovitsyn,
"Should Georgia start rebuilding her military to pre-war levels with Western help, Russia may increase her peacekeeping forces in S.Ossetia & Abkhazia"
http://www.interfax.ru/txt.asp?id=28744&sec=1484

According to witnesses, five Humvees with the letters USMC -- the initials of the US Marine Corps -- emblazoned on them were taken by Russian forces.
A Russian newspaper said the vehicles contained sophisticated satellite communications gear and they had been flown to Moscow to be examined. http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gBlf37YFP8kD1s9p-exYTzXBdQMQ

How credible is this claim?

 

[Feanor]

So despite previous assurances, Russian troops have remained in Georgia proper around Poti. A group of soldiers driving hummers and a truck loaded with weapons were stopped and disarmed by Russian peacekeepers earlier in Poti, and Russian forces intend to retain control of the port up to and possibly during the arrival of the American ships with humanitarian aid. Russia also reports that Georgian military is preparing for renewed hostilities.

S. Ossetian ministry of inner affairs reports that over 2100 people have been killed in the conflict, and the Russian Ministry of Defense confirmed 64 dead and over 370 wounded. Russia and Georgia have also completed prisoner exchange, with 5 Russian and 13 Georgian prisoners returned including the pilots of downed Russian aircraft.

 

[Topmaul]

Something I found interesting is the number of VSS rifles out there looks like they are pretty common in the 58th.

 

[Feanor]

The 58th isn't the only unit in the conflict zone. Spetznaz forces were there, and VDV units.

 

[Pro'forma]

From the news: Russian military is forced to medieval times, where you
are not accepting the humane peace claiming. Or no. Punishment is in line
with war-claims. True barbaric behaviour, hit the face and hit ass as far as
when guys are falling to the ground.

Who's gonna bring or introsuce rusia and geogia to the modern civilization ?

Extract; medieval corporal diary.

Stealing, next railway mines, and peace is obscure for russian ?