Pakistan Navy (PN) News, Updates & Discussions

[BilalK]

Very interesting - so the Ex-Dutch ex-Greek Kortenaers (3000+ tons) would be a temporary solution before finding the money to order 4 new frigates, and the total frigate force would be fixed at 8.
I would be surprised is Germany were to win a contract in Pakistan, since France has always dominated new supply contracts for the Navy.

cheers

I think the frigate fleet would rise to at least 12, these Kortenaers will be procured cheaply and upgraded; I don't think the unit cost of these frigates would rise beyond $100mn USD. They will serve the PN up to 2025 (45 years of service).

The Pakistan Navy may receive Oliver Hazard Perry Class frigates from the U.S under EDA/grant; in fact, PN wanted 2 OHP FFGs instead of the Spruance DDG. For all we know, another batch of F-22Ps may be ordered?

As for new heavy frigates, they may come from China with the Type-054; but since the U-212/214 is being considered, I think the PN may push for a MEKO + U-212/214 + NH-90 deal with Germany.

 

[contedicavour]

I think the frigate fleet would rise to at least 12, these Kortenaers will be procured cheaply and upgraded; I don't think the unit cost of these frigates would rise beyond $100mn USD. They will serve the PN up to 2025 (45 years of service).

The Pakistan Navy may receive Oliver Hazard Perry Class frigates from the U.S under EDA/grant; in fact, PN wanted 2 OHP FFGs instead of the Spruance DDG. For all we know, another batch of F-22Ps may be ordered?

As for new heavy frigates, they may come from China with the Type-054; but since the U-212/214 is being considered, I think the PN may push for a MEKO + U-212/214 + NH-90 deal with Germany.

Ok thks Bilalk. I think the OHPs wouldn't be very interesting without the SM-1s. So a mix of Kortenaer/F-22P/Tpe054 would be strong. I would be worried however that these 3 types of ships don't have the latest CIWS to defend versus missiles such as the Klub-S (220km range, terminal supersonic) or the Brahmos that equip or will equip the Indian Kilo, Talwar frigates, and the second batch of Delhi DDGs under construction. This is probably the first area requiring upgrading : reinstall Goalkeeper CIWS or buy RAM for the Kortenaer/Elli ships.

cheers

 

[BilalK]

I agree, considerable upgrading will need to be done air defence, anti-submarine and anti-missile capabilities. For this reason, I believe the PN may procure Air Defence frigates for its 3500-4500 new frigate requirement and ASW corvettes. I guess we will just have to wait and see.

 

[contedicavour]

I agree, considerable upgrading will need to be done air defence, anti-submarine and anti-missile capabilities. For this reason, I believe the PN may procure Air Defence frigates for its 3500-4500 new frigate requirement and ASW corvettes. I guess we will just have to wait and see.

That option would cost a lot : a DDG (more 6000+ ton) costs 700 million USD. Even a 3500 ton FFG with good AAW, such as the Saudi Al Riyadh modified Lafayette, with Aster 15 (30km range), costs 400 million USD each...

cheers

 

[Big-E]

I agree, considerable upgrading will need to be done air defence, anti-submarine and anti-missile capabilities. For this reason, I believe the PN may procure Air Defence frigates for its 3500-4500 new frigate requirement and ASW corvettes. I guess we will just have to wait and see.

With the IN building ATVs and ADS the Pak navy isn't going to survive without AEGIS.:shudder

 

[rabirizvi]

what do you people think of chances regarding Pakistan buying Spruance DDG? i am asking this question as i noticed that PN has always hinted its interest in OHP but nothing much has been said about spruance from Pakistan's side, even though it has been cleared by US for us.

 

[contedicavour]

what do you people think of chances regarding Pakistan buying Spruance DDG? i am asking this question as i noticed that PN has always hinted its interest in OHP but nothing much has been said about spruance from Pakistan's side, even though it has been cleared by US for us.

Apparently the US Congress has already authorized the transfer of at least 1 Spruance to Pakisant, altough without the SM-2 IIIA/B AAW missiles and of course without the Tomahawks... so a nice big destroyer... but an unarmed one...
If I were in charge of the Pakistani Navy I wouldn't waste money and personnel on such a ship. Try buying used ex-RN Type 42 destroyers with a big stock of Sea Dart missiles. It's not AEGIS and it's not SM-2 IIIs, but at least you have good air cover for your ex-Greek and Chinese frigates.

cheers

 

[BilalK]

Apparently the US Congress has already authorized the transfer of at least 1 Spruance to Pakisant, altough without the SM-2 IIIA/B AAW missiles and of course without the Tomahawks... so a nice big destroyer... but an unarmed one...
If I were in charge of the Pakistani Navy I wouldn't waste money and personnel on such a ship. Try buying used ex-RN Type 42 destroyers with a big stock of Sea Dart missiles. It's not AEGIS and it's not SM-2 IIIs, but at least you have good air cover for your ex-Greek and Chinese frigates.

cheers

Compared to the Spruance Class, the Type-42 has half the displacement and it should be cheaper to operate compared to the Spruance. I would imagine that IF the PN had an interest in procuring destroyers, they would most likely try to procure two or three Type-42s instead of Spruances.

 

[contedicavour]

Compared to the Spruance Class, the Type-42 has half the displacement and it should be cheaper to operate compared to the Spruance. I would imagine that IF the PN had an interest in procuring destroyers, they would most likely try to procure two or three Type-42s instead of Spruances.

Yep, and given the experience the PN has with Type 21s and with the older County class DDG, buy second-hand British may be a very cost-efficient solution.

cheers

 

[hovercraft]

Third agosta 90-B nuclear strike capable submarine is inducting in PN this year in august.
Submarine is equipped with a 200KW MESMA Air Independent Propulsion system.

http://www.nation.com.pk/daily/may-2006/31/index12.php

 

[shamsi]

How are you so sure that the sub is nuclear strike capable? For all we know it can only shoot darts and bubbles.

Third agosta 90-B nuclear strike capable submarine is inducting in PN this year in august.
Submarine is equipped with a 200KW MESMA Air Independent Propulsion system.

http://www.nation.com.pk/daily/may-2006/31/index12.php

 

[Big-E]

How are you so sure that the sub is nuclear strike capable? For all we know it can only shoot darts and bubbles.

You can stick a nuclear warhead in either torpedoes or cruise missiles which the Agosta can fire, I call that more than darts and bubbles...

 

[rabirizvi]

thanks to contedicavour and Bilalk for ur replies, but i was looking more for any official or non-official comment from PN about the availability of Spruance
DDG.
this quiteness(i maybe wrong) from the PN's side somehow tells me that they are not really intrested in the deal

 

[Big-E]

thanks to contedicavour and Bilalk for ur replies, but i was looking more for any official or non-official comment from PN about the availability of Spruance
DDG.
this quiteness(i maybe wrong) from the PN's side somehow tells me that they are not really intrested in the deal

I don't think the DoD would have cleared the Fletcher for transfer to the Pak navy if it didn't interest them.

 

[Sea Toby]

I'm of the opinion Pakistan should purchase as planned new Chinese frigates and upgrade them with Western sensors and equipment. Thailand has done well doing so. If Pakistan were to purchase used equipment, I would think the last 4 British Type 22s would fit well in their fleet.

 

[rabirizvi]

but Big-E dont you think that if Pakistan was/is interested in the deal, we would have snatched the opertunity long time back or atleast some official recognition of the availability of fletcher would have been made
Personally i think if Pakistan can integrate babur cruise missile with a new fire and control system and give it some respectable AAW, it would be great to have this old beast in PN

 

[SABRE]

The ship was/is being offered under the "free deal" clause of the MNNA status granted to Pakistan. Which says that any thing 2nd hand/used (by the US armed forces) will be handed over to Pakistan for "FREE." But free deal is not completely free, for the upgradings Pakistan will have to pay & since its 2nd hand equipment, upgrading is must. Perhaps the cost of upgradings is too high.

I believe initially the offer seemed attractive, but since the new Naval Doctrin calls on more Frigates and Submarines to bought, the deal might have lost PN's interest.

PLUS, if you have been a student of Economics you must be aware that "there is no such thing as Free lunch". There is always a hidden agenda. Perhaps Pakistan is un-willing to follow that certain Hidden Agenda of US.

Also under the "Free Deal" US will remove the equipement it does not want to share, from the product (in this case the battleship). This is the negative side of the of the deal. Perhaps the US said it will remove some thing that attracked PN at the first place.


Anyways; to say that PN was/is not interested is wrong. At one point ,last yeas, it seemed like Pakistan was going to sign the purchase deal at any "second."

 

[P.A.F]

The ship was/is being offered under the "free deal" clause of the MNNA status granted to Pakistan. Which says that any thing 2nd hand/used (by the US armed forces) will be handed over to Pakistan for "FREE." But free deal is not completely free, for the upgradings Pakistan will have to pay & since its 2nd hand equipment, upgrading is must. Perhaps the cost of upgradings is too high.

I believe initially the offer seemed attractive, but since the new Naval Doctrin calls on more Frigates and Submarines to bought, the deal might have lost PN's interest.

PLUS, if you have been a student of Economics you must be aware that "there is no such thing as Free lunch". There is always a hidden agenda. Perhaps Pakistan is un-willing to follow that certain Hidden Agenda of US.

Also under the "Free Deal" US will remove the equipement it does not want to share, from the product (in this case the battleship). This is the negative side of the of the deal. Perhaps the US said it will remove some thing that attracked PN at the first place.


Anyways; to say that PN was/is not interested is wrong. At one point ,last yeas, it seemed like Pakistan was going to sign the purchase deal at any "second."

Let me just point out that once all the relief requirements for the earth quake are over with, then pakistan will be going on a HUGE shopping Spree!!! and maybe type 22's and the flether will be back on the table. also there is also word of the french starting a new sub project for the PN which has been going on for long long time.

 

[Big-E]

Let me just point out that once all the relief requirements for the earth quake are over with, then pakistan will be going on a HUGE shopping Spree!!! and maybe type 22's and the flether will be back on the table. also there is also word of the french starting a new sub project for the PN which has been going on for long long time.

I really have the feeling that the Pak navy wants Fletcher as a command ship, compared to Pakistani naval command, com and data link equipment the Fletcher and her CIC are 2 generations ahead, I doubt if the Pentagon stripped that gear.

 

[contedicavour]

I really have the feeling that the Pak navy wants Fletcher as a command ship, compared to Pakistani naval command, com and data link equipment the Fletcher and her CIC are 2 generations ahead, I doubt if the Pentagon stripped that gear.

Agree, and that was precisely the role of the ex-Royal Navy County class DDG "Babur" that remained in service for a long time in the PN and was only recently deleted.
Regarding the Broadsword/T22 Batch 3, the Royal Navy does not want to retire them at all. The Royal Navy even preferred to sell to Chile some much newer Duke T23 rather than lose its 4 T22 Batch 3. These are very large frigates with significant command capabilities for overseas missions and excellent ASW.

cheers