dreamwarrior73
New Member
any specs and images on the HQ-16?tphuang said:
Pakistan Navy (PN) News, Updates & Discussions
- Thread starter mysterious
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hovercraft
New Member
Fourth Augusta Submarine Under construction for Pakistan Navy.
Prime Minister Shukat Aziz said fourth Augusta 90B Submarine is in last stage of construction with the help of France.
http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp (English)
http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/jul2006-daily/07-07-2006/update.htm#15 (Urdu)
Prime Minister Shukat Aziz said fourth Augusta 90B Submarine is in last stage of construction with the help of France.
http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp (English)
http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/jul2006-daily/07-07-2006/update.htm#15 (Urdu)
The full news article from the same source/link;
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Extra ordinary might, resilience required to ensure peace: PM
Updated at 1330 PST
KARACHI: Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz said Friday that extra-ordinary might, resilience and strength was required to ensure peace, which could never be established by weak nations.
Pursuing that philosophy, Pakistan was seeking Frigates and Sub-marine technology from China and European countries in order make its naval defence invincible, he said while talking to newsmen here on Friday after Midshipmen Commissioning Ceremony at Karachi Naval Academy.
Pakistan was making all out efforts to make its territorial seawaters safe for economic activities, not only for itself but also for the world, Shaukat Aziz said.
However, he said, Pakistan would not accept supremacy of any country at its sea frontiers.
He also hinted that Pakistan would also share Agosta Submarine technology with friendly countries.
Steps were being taken to provide aerial monitoring system to Pakistan Navy, the Prime Minister said and added that the preparation of fourth Agosta submarine with the cooperation of France was in final phase.
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Could this mean that Pakistan and France are in their final negotiations for the production of a fourth Agosta-90B? In my opinion it was a mistake from the press, maybe they meant the third submarine is ready to be commissioned. This fourth part took me by surprise.
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Extra ordinary might, resilience required to ensure peace: PM
Updated at 1330 PST
KARACHI: Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz said Friday that extra-ordinary might, resilience and strength was required to ensure peace, which could never be established by weak nations.
Pursuing that philosophy, Pakistan was seeking Frigates and Sub-marine technology from China and European countries in order make its naval defence invincible, he said while talking to newsmen here on Friday after Midshipmen Commissioning Ceremony at Karachi Naval Academy.
Pakistan was making all out efforts to make its territorial seawaters safe for economic activities, not only for itself but also for the world, Shaukat Aziz said.
However, he said, Pakistan would not accept supremacy of any country at its sea frontiers.
He also hinted that Pakistan would also share Agosta Submarine technology with friendly countries.
Steps were being taken to provide aerial monitoring system to Pakistan Navy, the Prime Minister said and added that the preparation of fourth Agosta submarine with the cooperation of France was in final phase.
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Could this mean that Pakistan and France are in their final negotiations for the production of a fourth Agosta-90B? In my opinion it was a mistake from the press, maybe they meant the third submarine is ready to be commissioned. This fourth part took me by surprise.
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hovercraft
New Member
I heard news two or three times, Prime Minister said 4th Augusta and all other channels too said 4th, but PTV 9:00 PM news corrected this mistake.
:el
:el
I think they ment "negotiation". Although PN had only filled the requirement for 3 subs initially. After that Pakistan was only to export the sub under the agreement with France & DCN. Seems like Pakistan is going for a 4th sub (possibly modified to fire/launch Babur Cruise Missile), as well as to start exporting it.BilalK said:
Note: Pakistan Navy is also evaluating German Type-214/215 & France recently made counter-offer for the new "Marlin" subs. Said to be superior to both Agosta-90B & Scorpion.
RubiconNZ
The Wanderer
Tell Me Why?
Not to be mistaken for being condescending, but why does Pakistan need a major naval fleet, surely anything Pakistan will face will generally be land launched and anything else would be in reach of a half decent strike fighter or Cruise Missile. What is the rationale for Pakistan to have Subs, is it simply because their neighbour has it? Geography wise is there any offshore facilities possesions to protect?
Again don't mistake me for being rude I am just curious.
Not to be mistaken for being condescending, but why does Pakistan need a major naval fleet, surely anything Pakistan will face will generally be land launched and anything else would be in reach of a half decent strike fighter or Cruise Missile. What is the rationale for Pakistan to have Subs, is it simply because their neighbour has it? Geography wise is there any offshore facilities possesions to protect?
Again don't mistake me for being rude I am just curious.
I think it makes perfect sense for Pakistan Navy to have a strong submarine force. Its a cheaper and more practical way to protect its assets against Indian navy. In 1971 war Indian Navy targeted Karachi harbor using its Missile boats and effectively blockaded it. A strong littoral navy with latest submarines will give Indian Navy major headaches. Remember, the only loss Indian navy sufferd is in the hands of Pakistani Submarine (INS Kukri).robsta83 said:
I have to say, French are enjoying it --selling Augosta to Pakistan then Scorpenes to India and now offering Merlen to Pakistan...clever buggers
Well we should not forget that submarines like U-214 or Marlin could be very expensive for the Pakistan Navy; perhaps we will not be able to procure those kind of submarines in massive numbers (above 3). An acquisition of a few more Agosta-90Bs could be reached; with of course more advanced systems, perhaps capability to use LACMs or anti-ship cruise missiles, etc. Up to 6 Agosta-90Bs (or C/Ds) alongside 3 Marlin or U-214s - what a cool force.
PN usually operates two varients of submarines. i.e.BilalK said:
>Daphnie + Agosta 70B - in the past
>Agosta 70B + Agosta 90B - Current
But Agosta-70Bs are suppose to be retired some times after 2011 (Rumored). Its their replacement what PN is looking for. If PN starts working now, it will get its new Sub by the time of Agosta-70Bs retirement.
U-214 & Marlin are the two contenders. Marlin has just been offered. Germans have various issues regarding the ToT, while French may offer Marlin under the similar contract by which Pakistan achieved Agosta-90Bs technology (including the License to export).
hovercraft
New Member
Third Augusta 90-B submarine is ready for launch today at August 10, 2006, President Musharraf will attend the ceremony. This submarine is the first submarine in Pakistan navy with MESMA AIP system. akistan
akistan
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Launched Buddyhovercraft said:Third Augusta 90-B submarine is ready for launch today at August 10, 2006, President Musharraf will attend the ceremony. This submarine is the first submarine in Pakistan navy with MESMA AIP system.
Agosta submarine ‘Hamza’ handed over to Pak Navy
KARACHI: The Agosta 90-B Submarine, Hamza, built by Pakistani engineers was handed over to Pakistan Navy on Thursday (today).
Pakistan had signed a contract with France’s DCN International for buying and preparing three Agosta submarines and three mine hunters a few years ago in order to become self-sufficient in submarine technology. Under the terms of the agreement, first submarine, Agosta Khalid, was made in France, the second, Agosta Saad, was built partially in France and partially in Pakistan in which Pakistani engineers also took part.
The third submarine, Agosta Hamza, has been completely made in Pakistan at the Navy Dockyard and it has successfully completed all the tests out of water.
According to the Pak Navy experts, Massimo AIP system has been installed in Agosta Hamza, which will enable it to remain in water for days.
An Agosta submarine, being built at the Karachi docks with the French assistance, would be launched for trials next month, Pakistan Navy has said.
The Agosta-90B is being built in Pakistan with the assistance of French company DCN International as part of a technology transfer agreement. Pakistan has already acquired two Agosta class submarines made in France.
http://www.geo.tv/geonews/details.asp?id=126858
Pakistan will never be able to match the size of India's defence forces, India is twice as large. However, Pakistan should have a stragedy to make India pay dearly. Pakistan therefore must have an army large enough to hold India, and an air force to keep India from dominating the skies, with the goal of defending its air space. Command and control will be the key in an air war.
While India seeks a sea control navy, its in Pakistan's best interest to have a sea denial navy. Submarines in the past and in the future are the best assets for sea denial. While India pursues an aircraft carrier navy with destroyer escorts, Pakistan is better off with a well armed frigate navy along with a fast attack craft navy. Its naval should be able to sink Indian naval assets and attempt to break a naval blockade.
While India seeks a sea control navy, its in Pakistan's best interest to have a sea denial navy. Submarines in the past and in the future are the best assets for sea denial. While India pursues an aircraft carrier navy with destroyer escorts, Pakistan is better off with a well armed frigate navy along with a fast attack craft navy. Its naval should be able to sink Indian naval assets and attempt to break a naval blockade.
mysterious
New Member
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
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That is why PN is looking at a minimum force of ten submarines to strenthen its sea denial capabilities. Right now, PN's top priority should be making sure that the next generation sub they decide on getting their hands on (lets say Marlin), comes with the capability to launch the naval version of the Babur cruise missile.
As far as I know, there are no plans to modify the A-90Bs to launch Babur as yet. Maybe the just want to get over with the fitting of the Mesma AIP in the earlier two 90Bs first and then get on with the modification to carry Babur?
As far as I know, there are no plans to modify the A-90Bs to launch Babur as yet. Maybe the just want to get over with the fitting of the Mesma AIP in the earlier two 90Bs first and then get on with the modification to carry Babur?
radiosilence
jints
how long will it take to convert the other two subs to mesma aip system?
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contedicavour
New Member
If I remember correctly the Agosta and the evolved Agosta A90B already carry SM39 Exocets. Not a cruise missile at all, still some 50km range once it pops out of the water.mysterious said:
I think that, provided the budget, the PN will be able to continue expanding its SSK force to at least 6. What would worry me most if I were in the PN is that their surface fleet renewal is slow and weak. The 4 new F22P from China will have C802 and the copy of the Crotale, while the Indian equivalents (let's say the Talwars or the P17s building) will have Brahmos or Klub as SSMs and SA-N-7 or -11 as SAMs.
The PN badly needs those Greek Kortenaers, reequipped with longer range missiles than the original Harpoons.
cheers
contedicavour
New Member
Does the PN require its subs to be able to perform land attack missions ? Wouldn't the old & new Agostas be busy enough performing "sea denial" missions against surface ships & carrier task forces ?umair said:
I think adding land attack complicates life further for SSKs who would already have to spearhead extremely dangerous anti-shipping tasks, while defending themselves from Scorpenes tomorrow and modernized Kilos today...
cheers