Pakistan Air Force [PAF] News and Discussions

[rafale_2k5]

Re: Current F-16 Versions Are World's Most Advanced Multi-Role Fighters?

PS I got a news that Pakistan is now re-considering F-16 Block 60 E/F instead of any other 5th Gen AC. PAF wont consider an other US AC unless the previous one come inferior. Wheather US will sell or not is another thing.

PS Pakistan cant afford to upset USA at the point when they have been just declared as the 2nd fastest growing economy of the year after China & soon to become 5th Tigher nation of Asia, by United Nations & World Bank. We are on the road but we still need a push & push has to come from USA.

mod edit: highsea: Post moved to correct thread.

loads n mouthful of wishful thinkin n wet dreams !!!! block 60 eh!!!!! i hope u know wat ur talkin abouit , they barely got money 4 plain vanilla block 50s n ur talkin about block 60s , did u read the state bank report be4 proclaimin our selves as ASIAN TIGERS!!!!!!:coffee , u really need a reality check !!! if u want i can send u the excerpts!!!!!!!

 

[SABRE]

Re: Current F-16 Versions Are World's Most Advanced Multi-Role Fighters?

I am not here to discuss economy. If you want to than PM me but I wont be in mood since non MBAs dont understand what I am talking abt.

Anyways PAF has enough money to go for 50 Block 52s. I know from where the money is coming from & there is more there. Why would we put "Rafale" & "F-18" besides F-16 if we dint have money. Even after 50+ F-16 Block 52C/D PAF is willing to buy 30 to 40 Jets of different type in next 10 yrs. PAF now sees F-16 block 60 as a 5th Gen AC that can full fill its requirements.

 

[webmaster]

Re: Current F-16 Versions Are World's Most Advanced Multi-Role Fighters?

Kashifshezad and others: This is PAF news and discussions thread, not economics discussions. The reply from rafale was directed towards Sabre and sabre chose NOT (rightly so) to get into economics in this thread - that should send some type of signal to you!

 

[P.A.F]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

http://flyawaysimulation.com/article1516.html

F-16 Deal for Pakistan Could Feature Advanced Weapons

​

Pakistan is in line to receive one of the most modern versions of the F-16s, after years of being subject to an arms-sales ban that kept Washington from delivering fighters that Islamabad had bought.
​

One of the issues with which the U.S. is grappling involves Pakistan's desire to both upgrade 32 F-16s in its fleet and buy F-16 Block 50/52s with a sophisticated weapons package. But new aircraft will not be available until around 2008 or 2009, so a gap-filler package of used F-16s is being considered, says USAF Lt. Gen. Jeffrey B. Kohler, director of the Defense Security Cooperation Agency.

The heart of the deal will be the new aircraft. At least one option is what Lockheed Martin calls the Advanced Block 50 configuration. This includes the APG-68(V)9 radar with a synthetic aperture mode, as well as a conformal fuel-tank capability. The aircraft will be capable of using an internal ALQ-211 electronic countermeasures jammer and an ECM pod, either the ALQ-131 or -134. Weapons carriage capabilities will include the AIM-120 Amraam and AIM-9 variants, including the AIM-9X.

Whether--and when--the latest variant of the AIM-9 will be made available to Pakistan is not clear. The aircraft also will be compatible with air-to-surface weapons such as the GBU-24, AGM-84 Harpoon and Joint Stand-Off Weapon. Again, the export release of individual weapons will be determined at a later date.

Any agreement for used F-16s between a third party and Pakistan likely would receive U.S. support. Such an arrangement has been discussed in the case of other potential buyers, with Belgium among those offering up some of its fleet. The Pentagon, in those cases, has said it would aid the arrangement through the provision of spares and potential upgrade kits.

The U.S. is in talks with Islamabad to fully define its fighter requirements, before going through the congressional notification process required for any deal. Until the plan is fully laid out, an expected mid-life upgrade of older F-16s also will not move forward.

 

[pshamim]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

http://flyawaysimulation.com/article1516.html

F-16 Deal for Pakistan Could Feature Advanced Weapons

Pakistan is in line to receive one of the most modern versions of the F-16s, after years of being subject to an arms-sales ban that kept Washington from delivering fighters that Islamabad had bought.​

Originally published in AW&ST, this article reflects the current status of negotiations between Pakistan and US. Unlike many news items and speculative reports in press and on internet, this article is almost 100% correct.​

 

[Topsecret]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Originally published in AW&ST, this article reflects the current status of negotiations between Pakistan and US. Unlike many news items and speculative reports in press and on internet, this article is almost 100% correct.[/left]

Yeah this news also looks to me correct because there are no extra things mentioned in this news the weapons mentioned here are the typical one which are required by any country i.e sidewunders AIM-9... AAMRAMS and anti ship and i think the HARM would be best against AG targets.

 

[SABRE]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Hmmm...no word on JDAMs. Well there were some other weapons demanded whos names I dont remember excpet for JDAM. Lets see.

 

[Topsecret]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Obiously the JDAMS will be in the in the weapon package but i cant understand what Pakistan has demanded more from US other then this weapon package as far as i know no country has demended a BVR missile other then the AIM-120 and its varients and for the short range A2A missile the AIM-9 or the sparrows can be used and the bombs are a lot anti ship Harpoon or the Harpoon II i know it will be fitted in the P-3 orions but dont know can be fitted in the F-16's the A2G will be Mervick TV/IR or the HARM the best do the US has other weapon package to offer to any country including the Paksitan i dont think so

 

[SABRE]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Some weapons are still undisclosed...for some reason PAF has not posted the whole news.

U.S. officials are cautious in discussing the exact arms package they plan to deliver to Pakistan, although the deal could be for about 55 new aircraft.

I have asked some of my sources...they say that mentioned weapon system is the requirement but they are also regular ones...Dont know what "SPECIAL" Weapons PAF is looking. I doubt any thing extraodinary will sold.

 

[pshamim]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Obiously the JDAMS will be in the in the weapon package but i cant understand what Pakistan has demanded more from US other then this weapon package as far as i know no country has demended a BVR missile other then the AIM-120 and its varients and for the short range A2A missile the AIM-9 or the sparrows can be used and the bombs are a lot anti ship Harpoon or the Harpoon II i know it will be fitted in the P-3 orions but dont know can be fitted in the F-16's the A2G will be Mervick TV/IR or the HARM the best do the US has other weapon package to offer to any country including the Paksitan i dont think so

F-16s will be Harpoon capable. Sidewinders under discussions include aim-9x. There are several munitions that can be converted into a JDAM by hanging a $14000-$20000 JDAM kit. Question is if Pakistan has those munitions and if not they could be sold as non-JDAM and then ship the JDAM kits.

We may be looking for wrong designations like GBU-31 etc etc.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Hmmm...no word on JDAMs. Well there were some other weapons demanded whos names I dont remember excpet for JDAM. Lets see.

I don't think that you'll see the US releasing JDAMs to anyone for a while.

 

[SABRE]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Well I have had a chat with highsea, according to him most of these weapons are basic/standard. The artical is bit missleading & no where it says that PAF has asked for these weapons. These weapons come with Block 50 anyways. & according to him all the weapon systems are subject to secracy.

SABRE: Abt Weapons mentioned in the artical?

Highsea: The list is just the standard list for block 50/52. It doesn't mean that the PAF has asked for everything on the list, it just says what the F-16 can carry.

SABRE:when we get the MLU, will we have the same weapon systems on the oldies or will the oldies be still inferior?

Highsea:The MLU will allow you to upgrade all the weapons to the current versions, and add JDAM, Harpoon, etc

SABRE: USA is not willing to give exact weapons details demanded by Pakistan...what weapons can be subject to secracy?

Highsea: Lol, all of them. The most sensitive are the ones that are the offensive weapons like JDAMs, JSOW, JASSM, etc. Pakistan will probably get some smaller JDAMs, 500 and 1,000 pounders, to use in anti-terrorism operations, but I would be surprised to see the big ones in the package. The US isn't providing these AC to be used against India, at least in theory. We want Pakistan to be able to defend herself, not get adventurous.

Other weapons like Harpoons and AAM's can be considered defensive weapons, so they are easier to export.

SABRE:What does lockheed mean by "Advance Block 50 Configuration"? (Compare it to Israeli F-16s .. I belive they have one the most advance, though I dont know much abt their config & wheather they are BVR or not)

Highsea:Everything is BVR. Advanced Block 50 is just a term, you wouldn't expect Lockmart to call them "Obsolete Block 50", would you? The F-16I is not really the most advanced version any more, the UAE's are. The Israeli versions use their own missiles and EW/ECM suites, but they are no better than the current US versions.

 

[pshamim]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

I don't think that you'll see the US releasing JDAMs to anyone for a while.

If that is the case, why they are discussing Dynthetic Aperture Radar(SAR)?

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

I can't see the US offering new generation current technologies, it's just not the way she works. There is always a bleeding in period before export via FMS or even outright sale.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

If that is the case, why they are discussing Dynthetic Aperture Radar(SAR)?

At a guess, fundamentally SAR is a passive system - it's the same logic as used by the Swedes on Eyrie.

 

[pshamim]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

I can't see the US offering new generation current technologies, it's just not the way she works. There is always a bleeding in period before export via FMS or even outright sale.

I can confirm DSCA and Pakistan have discussed in detail the GBU kits for different variants of MK-series Munitions that Pakistan is already producing. Decision to provide SAR capability with the APG-68(v9) is in the same context.

You may be right if in the end discussions fail but so far, US has been quite receptive.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

I can confirm DSCA and Pakistan have discussed in detail the GBU kits for different variants of MK-series Munitions that Pakistan is already producing. Decision to provide SAR capability with the APG-68(v9) is in the same context.

You may be right if in the end discussions fail but so far, US has been quite receptive.

You may be right, but I guess I'm looking at this in the prism of history. We do though however, live if different times. The same restrictions governing sales in the past may well be redundant. But it was the excuse used by the Swedes.

The fact that India is being offered options on systems may well mean that the US has changed its FMS policies to a more progressive stance.

 

[pshamim]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

You may be right, but I guess I'm looking at this in the prism of history. We do though however, live if different times. The same restrictions governing sales in the past may well be redundant. But it was the excuse used by the Swedes.

The fact that India is being offered options on systems may well mean that the US has changed its FMS policies to a more progressive stance.

You are correct. But when the ground realities change, actions, unthinkable in the past, are taken. Remember President Carter who denied even the A-7 Corsairs to Pakistan. When Reagan came, the actions of the US Government totally reversed Carter's policies. There was a green light given for the F-18L to Pakistan. I personally delivered F-18L proposal to Pak Government. But then G.D. became interested in a sale of F-16 to Pakistan and I have the honour of even taking that proposal to totally aghast Head of the Military Mission at Pakistan Embassy in Washington D.C.

Remember James Buckley, appointed by Reagan to be the head of arms exports at the State Department and what he said:

In a May 1981 speech to the Aerospace Industries Association at Williamsburg, Virginia, Buckley attacked the Carter administration's policy of arms transfer restraint as a "naive" approach which "substituted theology for a healthy sense of self-preservation." He ridiculed legislative restrictions on arms sales and aid to countries which violated nuclear non- proliferation safeguards and internationally accepted standards of human rights as "well-intentioned" but ineffectual. And, he said, such efforts undercut important allies like Pakistan and Argentina, whose support in the global confrontation with communism was essential. Military contractors looking to increase their exports could not help but leave the meeting feeling that the Reagan administration would be a strong ally.

F-16 that had never been sold to a third world country due to Carter's Administration's policy was sold to Pakistan. We have a similar situation today.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

But when the ground realities change, actions, unthinkable in the past, are taken.

we're in agreement here, I was taking a cautious approach.

interesting re your comment on the F-18L. It was also proposed for the RAAF a generation ago and was rejected as being too "light" (hence the "L" moniker).

In the scheme of things I thought it was competitive against the F-16 - do you know why it was rejected by PAF?

 

[pshamim]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

we're in agreement here, I was taking a cautious approach.

interesting re your comment on the F-18L. It was also proposed for the RAAF a generation ago and was rejected as being too "light" (hence the "L" moniker).

In the scheme of things I thought it was competitive against the F-16 - do you know why it was rejected by PAF?

F-18L was never rejected. PAF considered itself lucky and was extremely happy that US was willing to supply this aircraft when Pres. Carter had turned down the lowly A-7s not too long ago. PAF considered F-18L to be superior to Corsair and wanted it. They never imagined that they could ever get F-16s. They considered it to be the best a/c in the US inventory.

Then out of nowhere they received a communication that G.D. was interested in Pakistan as a F-16 customer and will work on the congress if Pakistan asked Reagan Administration for F-16s instead of F-18L. Well rest is history as you know. PAF got a better jet.