Pakistan Air Force [PAF] News and Discussions
- Thread starter P.A.F
- Start date
fieldmarshal
New Member
Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions
.
the flanker series of ac includin the su-30 have yet to prove them selves in real combat so as things stand now they r nothin more than stunt planes. While on the other hand f-16 has proved its worth again n again, n even to this day is the premier fighter ac in a lot of countries including the us.
did u know when the usaf issued the tender for the jsaf its main criteria was that the choosen ac should match the performance envelop of the f-16. N the the jsaf does just that.
Now doesent that tell a thing ot two bout the f-16
now the prob with russian armements is that the russians tend to exagurate n in some cases even lie about capabilities of their systems, when in reality the said system would be lucky to even meet half of the stated performance. This was the case during the cold war n still is.
Know wt india was sitting on our borders for more than a year with its formations in full battle mode ie all arms(army navy airforce). Pak armed forces were certainly weaker at that time than they are today. So if inda had detected any sort of weakness i tell u they would have attacked without thinking bout it twice but they dident. So their is more to wt meets the eyekashifshahzad said:
.the flanker series of ac includin the su-30 have yet to prove them selves in real combat so as things stand now they r nothin more than stunt planes. While on the other hand f-16 has proved its worth again n again, n even to this day is the premier fighter ac in a lot of countries including the us.
did u know when the usaf issued the tender for the jsaf its main criteria was that the choosen ac should match the performance envelop of the f-16. N the the jsaf does just that.
Now doesent that tell a thing ot two bout the f-16
now the prob with russian armements is that the russians tend to exagurate n in some cases even lie about capabilities of their systems, when in reality the said system would be lucky to even meet half of the stated performance. This was the case during the cold war n still is.
Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions
With reports coming out that Pakistan and Australia may acquire the VERA Passive radar from Czech Republic, situation may change drastically.
Once declined, Czech newspapers are now reporting that Pakistan may be the next customer.
VERA Radar can detect all kinds of radars, all radio,emitter signals, and data links. It can detect upto 200 targets with a range of 450km. It is also rumored to have the ability to detect even stealth aircrafts and cruise missile.
Is that the Pakistani answer to Indian Phalcon system?
http://www.ceskenoviny.cz/news/index_view.php?id=148516
With reports coming out that Pakistan and Australia may acquire the VERA Passive radar from Czech Republic, situation may change drastically.
Once declined, Czech newspapers are now reporting that Pakistan may be the next customer.
VERA Radar can detect all kinds of radars, all radio,emitter signals, and data links. It can detect upto 200 targets with a range of 450km. It is also rumored to have the ability to detect even stealth aircrafts and cruise missile.
Is that the Pakistani answer to Indian Phalcon system?
http://www.ceskenoviny.cz/news/index_view.php?id=148516
Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions
It can detect enemy radar and even specify its type without being detected itself.
You knw pshamin when we buy equipment from countries like Ukrain, South Africa, Czeck Republic our intentios always are to reverse engineer it & produce our own version which also gives us study to produce better version on our own. We probably wont come to knw wheather Pakistan bought them or not untill we come out with our own version & only than Czeck will declare that they sold it to us.
I remember Czeck selling VERA ro Estonia for abt US $4 million.pshamim said:
It can detect enemy radar and even specify its type without being detected itself.
You knw pshamin when we buy equipment from countries like Ukrain, South Africa, Czeck Republic our intentios always are to reverse engineer it & produce our own version which also gives us study to produce better version on our own. We probably wont come to knw wheather Pakistan bought them or not untill we come out with our own version & only than Czeck will declare that they sold it to us.
Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions
VERA is reported to be responsible for downing of US stealth aircraft F117A Night Hawk in Bosnia. If it can do that, India may not have any advantage left and its air and naval assetts will be fully exposed.
What I like to know how the acquisition by Pakistan will affect the situation in South Asia. Will this radar if acquired by PAF negate the Indian Phalcon advantage. I believe, it will. Like to know what other forum members think?SABRE said:
VERA is reported to be responsible for downing of US stealth aircraft F117A Night Hawk in Bosnia. If it can do that, India may not have any advantage left and its air and naval assetts will be fully exposed.
Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions
1. Poor Pilot Planning: Pilot flew same rout in 4 nights.
2. French army officer who had sympathy with Serbs gave away the flight rout to serbs.
From what I knw I find VERA very interesting. What would be more interesting if we can mount it on an aircraft & make Air Bore Early Warning System out of it.
F-117 issue is kind of confusing to me. Russians & Serbs say that VERA got the signals while NATO stats the F-117 was shot down because of two reasons;pshamim said:
1. Poor Pilot Planning: Pilot flew same rout in 4 nights.
2. French army officer who had sympathy with Serbs gave away the flight rout to serbs.
From what I knw I find VERA very interesting. What would be more interesting if we can mount it on an aircraft & make Air Bore Early Warning System out of it.
Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions
We need both Airborne & Ground based Radars. Well since E2C & ERIEYE are available I think Pakistan might go for VERA as ground based radar.
Coming to your question abt its empact on India. Well you knw what reaction would come from there, very predictable.pshamim said:
We need both Airborne & Ground based Radars. Well since E2C & ERIEYE are available I think Pakistan might go for VERA as ground based radar.
Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions
i doubt how much effect it will have?india has acquired a radar from israel known as swordfish which has a detection range of 500kms and is trying to integrate it with an atbm missiles project,i believe swordfish is more or less comparable to the vera.:coffeepshamim said:
Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions
I see it as a good deal, since the radar is proven system.
VERA has 450Km range & compared to phalcon's 500Km range its pretty good. Besides Pakistan has not much of big land to use longer range radars & unlike India we dont have to moniter China, Bangladesh, Mayanmar(Burma) etc. We have only India to moniter. Anything flying in from India 450Km away is enough of early warning for us to go airborn. Plus we are also getting AWACs. With E2C we will have range of 500Km & ERIEYE abt 360+ Km, it would be even better if we get E3.aaaditya said:
I see it as a good deal, since the radar is proven system.
Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions
As india has alarger land mass than pakistan I think Pakistan requires longer range radars. In any case VERA sales were stopped from being sold to China a US pressure.
If India or US can persuade Cech Republic from doing the same then Pakistan needs to reassses its relationship with various Eastern European nations.
As india has alarger land mass than pakistan I think Pakistan requires longer range radars. In any case VERA sales were stopped from being sold to China a US pressure.
If India or US can persuade Cech Republic from doing the same then Pakistan needs to reassses its relationship with various Eastern European nations.
Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions
Afganistan and the north west also, Iran to the east and the arabian sea also.
Actually they need to do that now to safe guard nclear site and the border with Afganistan - I rekon Pakistan has learnt that from Soviet invasion in the 80 Yes?
If a war starts with US and Iran - I think Pakistan will have monitor every side of its border not just India!SABRE said:
Afganistan and the north west also, Iran to the east and the arabian sea also.
Actually they need to do that now to safe guard nclear site and the border with Afganistan - I rekon Pakistan has learnt that from Soviet invasion in the 80 Yes?
Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions
Fieldmarshall,
Re your post 557, just because the PAF and its officers have sacrificed their lives doesn't mean that they know more than an arm chair bandit. On the other hand they are showing an extremely lackadaisical approach towards the needs of the air security of the nation. Today's arm chair bandit living abroad knows more than a well qualified PAF officer about what is available and if that arm chair bandit has been working in the west at a managerial or an executive position, none of these qualified PAF personale can come close to negotiating and working out out preferential deal. The only reason these people are not involved is that the millitary buyers may not get the kickbacks.
You know how incompetent the PAF high ups are----the sanctions have been lifted for almost 4 years now and they are still lying to the public about the aircraft they need to buy. One statement on geo tv mentioned that if we don't get the F16's as we want them to be, we have other plane lined up---I believe that was a person of the rank of a wing commander or higher---whatever plane that was needed should have been ordered at least 3 years ago so that the deliveries should coming in by this time. But PAF is just like a little kid in a candy shop, with the money in one hand but cannot make up his mind what to get. Indecision, indecision, indecision.
The phantom example doesnot hold well now. The game plan now is to fire the first volley BVR and then trun around and take off. The machinery is getting so darn expensive and pilots need so much more to be trained, dog fights are the last thing on today's hi tech airforces list.
If the enemy air force takes out the first dozen aircraft with its BVR's, the morale of the opposition with be right down in the dirt. Fear of loss, not being able to retaliate against the invisible enemy, not knowing where and how the death is coming from are terrifying experiences for any warrior. It turns the blood into water and muscles into jello.
There was another news in geo tv about SD-10. The results are not very encouraging.
I am really really shocked at the attitudes of my pakistani compatriots------all our rhetoric today is based upon two items-----the JF 17 and SD 10------none of these items are in the production stage as of yet and we are betting the welfare and defence of the nation on these two.
Fieldmarshall,
Re your post 557, just because the PAF and its officers have sacrificed their lives doesn't mean that they know more than an arm chair bandit. On the other hand they are showing an extremely lackadaisical approach towards the needs of the air security of the nation. Today's arm chair bandit living abroad knows more than a well qualified PAF officer about what is available and if that arm chair bandit has been working in the west at a managerial or an executive position, none of these qualified PAF personale can come close to negotiating and working out out preferential deal. The only reason these people are not involved is that the millitary buyers may not get the kickbacks.
You know how incompetent the PAF high ups are----the sanctions have been lifted for almost 4 years now and they are still lying to the public about the aircraft they need to buy. One statement on geo tv mentioned that if we don't get the F16's as we want them to be, we have other plane lined up---I believe that was a person of the rank of a wing commander or higher---whatever plane that was needed should have been ordered at least 3 years ago so that the deliveries should coming in by this time. But PAF is just like a little kid in a candy shop, with the money in one hand but cannot make up his mind what to get. Indecision, indecision, indecision.
The phantom example doesnot hold well now. The game plan now is to fire the first volley BVR and then trun around and take off. The machinery is getting so darn expensive and pilots need so much more to be trained, dog fights are the last thing on today's hi tech airforces list.
If the enemy air force takes out the first dozen aircraft with its BVR's, the morale of the opposition with be right down in the dirt. Fear of loss, not being able to retaliate against the invisible enemy, not knowing where and how the death is coming from are terrifying experiences for any warrior. It turns the blood into water and muscles into jello.
There was another news in geo tv about SD-10. The results are not very encouraging.
I am really really shocked at the attitudes of my pakistani compatriots------all our rhetoric today is based upon two items-----the JF 17 and SD 10------none of these items are in the production stage as of yet and we are betting the welfare and defence of the nation on these two.
Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions
I think too many Pakistani's are blowing their own trumpets. Pakistani pilots may be good but their equipment really is third rate (except for the old Mirage's). Ex commuist Easr European nations are fielding better weapons than Pakistan.
The only thing Pakistan can be really proud of is its nuclear arsenal and missiles. That's down to the scientists rather than the miilitary planners.
I think too many Pakistani's are blowing their own trumpets. Pakistani pilots may be good but their equipment really is third rate (except for the old Mirage's). Ex commuist Easr European nations are fielding better weapons than Pakistan.
The only thing Pakistan can be really proud of is its nuclear arsenal and missiles. That's down to the scientists rather than the miilitary planners.
Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions
1)a modern 4th generation fighter besides the f16 .(in substantial numbers -aboutb 200)=the j10 with full tot would be the best option in my opinion.
2)awacs
3)inflight refuellers(i believe inflight refuellers are more essential to pakistan than awacs)
4)full fledged c3i capability(if possible a space based sar-maybe acquired from china as this would make the awacs unacessary)
these are the capital acquisitions ,as they would determine the effectiveness of paf.
if funding is available after the above deals,then pakistan should try to acquire secondary items such as:
1)jf17 thunder(by then it would have been fully developed ,plus as part of the deal for the 4th gen fighter can be equipped with comparable systems )
2)a ground attack fighter bomber,most probably jh7
3)surface to air missiles and radars.
for all this pakistan will have to increase its defence allocation for the airforce,set up a special national fund to be provided to the defence forces on a rotary basis,ie -if this year the fund has been provided for the airforce ,then the next year for the army and then for the navy and then again repeating this cycle(acquired as taxes from the people or by seperating a portion of the gdp-say an additional 1.5-2%of the gdp).
carry out a detailed study as to the futuristic threat scenario,taking into consideration the capabilities and acquisitions of iaf,completely overhaul the administration and infuse more transparency with regards to defence procurement.
most importantly they should have an detailed roadmap for the development of paf till 2020.:duel
pakistan air force needs three things immediately:Hussain said:
1)a modern 4th generation fighter besides the f16 .(in substantial numbers -aboutb 200)=the j10 with full tot would be the best option in my opinion.
2)awacs
3)inflight refuellers(i believe inflight refuellers are more essential to pakistan than awacs)
4)full fledged c3i capability(if possible a space based sar-maybe acquired from china as this would make the awacs unacessary)
these are the capital acquisitions ,as they would determine the effectiveness of paf.
if funding is available after the above deals,then pakistan should try to acquire secondary items such as:
1)jf17 thunder(by then it would have been fully developed ,plus as part of the deal for the 4th gen fighter can be equipped with comparable systems )
2)a ground attack fighter bomber,most probably jh7
3)surface to air missiles and radars.
for all this pakistan will have to increase its defence allocation for the airforce,set up a special national fund to be provided to the defence forces on a rotary basis,ie -if this year the fund has been provided for the airforce ,then the next year for the army and then for the navy and then again repeating this cycle(acquired as taxes from the people or by seperating a portion of the gdp-say an additional 1.5-2%of the gdp).
carry out a detailed study as to the futuristic threat scenario,taking into consideration the capabilities and acquisitions of iaf,completely overhaul the administration and infuse more transparency with regards to defence procurement.
most importantly they should have an detailed roadmap for the development of paf till 2020.:duel
mysterious
New Member
Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions
Well whatever the yak yak, I think we've exhausted this topic to the point of ruining it with further discussion now until we get more updates from PAF itself on what its doing and what its not doing abt acquiring 4th gen. fighters! So far the latest news piece is they're getting 2 MLU F-16s by this year's end and from 2006, the newer F-16s would start coming in.
What baffles me is that since Pakistan has a defensive posture vis-a-vis India and has doctrines for its forces based on the defence of the motherland and inflicting such heavy casualties on the assaulting force that they lose all taste for battle; then WHY is there no investment in defensive equipment? When on God's green earth are the Pakistani forces going to upgrade their vintage SAM and radar collections?
This VERA is quite a welcoming news with regards to Pakistan airspace defence! But there needs to be a lot more done if we're serious about safeguarding Pakistani airspace from being overwhelmed by a force that is massively building up its assault arm! New SAMs and a LOT of them are required along with proper integration with effective radar networks to fill up the gaps in the Pakistani defenses, which, as of now are quite a worrying tale!
Well whatever the yak yak, I think we've exhausted this topic to the point of ruining it with further discussion now until we get more updates from PAF itself on what its doing and what its not doing abt acquiring 4th gen. fighters! So far the latest news piece is they're getting 2 MLU F-16s by this year's end and from 2006, the newer F-16s would start coming in.
What baffles me is that since Pakistan has a defensive posture vis-a-vis India and has doctrines for its forces based on the defence of the motherland and inflicting such heavy casualties on the assaulting force that they lose all taste for battle; then WHY is there no investment in defensive equipment? When on God's green earth are the Pakistani forces going to upgrade their vintage SAM and radar collections?
This VERA is quite a welcoming news with regards to Pakistan airspace defence! But there needs to be a lot more done if we're serious about safeguarding Pakistani airspace from being overwhelmed by a force that is massively building up its assault arm! New SAMs and a LOT of them are required along with proper integration with effective radar networks to fill up the gaps in the Pakistani defenses, which, as of now are quite a worrying tale!
Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions
We are not in an aggressive mode hence we are not in any hurry to induct 4th generation fighters over night.
Besides I would say that F-16 Block 52+ C/D are quite a fighter, they can still be called state of the art fighters.
As for when is Pak forces upgrade them selves. Well they are. Joint Forces Committy submitted the 15 yr plan to PM which states every thing Pakistan Armed forces plan to aquire & are available. PM him self is taking keen interest in military development. If you havent noticed its not Musharaf who is in meetings for upgrading the army its the PM.
At the moment I'll tell you to calm down on 4th Gen fighter. PAF is concentrating 1st on what it is getting at this moment e.g: F-16s, C-130J & AWACs etc.mysterious said:
We are not in an aggressive mode hence we are not in any hurry to induct 4th generation fighters over night.
Besides I would say that F-16 Block 52+ C/D are quite a fighter, they can still be called state of the art fighters.
LH-M VP said that the two F-16s will arrive next month (october) instead of december. In 2006 PAF gets 15 new F-16s & after that its 20 to 25 every year.
Well for Radar you have got the VERA news. As for the SAMs I herd that Pakistan is in for the Ukrainians & also NESCOM is under development of its own long range radar guided SAMs with the help of Chinese & may be even Ukrainians. (Dnt have much information regarding it, so no questions asked. What I have wrote abt SAMs is all I know).
As for when is Pak forces upgrade them selves. Well they are. Joint Forces Committy submitted the 15 yr plan to PM which states every thing Pakistan Armed forces plan to aquire & are available. PM him self is taking keen interest in military development. If you havent noticed its not Musharaf who is in meetings for upgrading the army its the PM.
Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions
Inducting new equipment is somethig different from having a shopping list. At presnet Pakistan appears to be well behind the times.
On a bright note if Pakistan is developing AAM based on ballistic missiles then it is a positive step forward. I remember reading somewhere that thermoberic type of missiles used against concentrations of aircraft will be the next anti aircraft weapon of choice. The shock wave from the explosion will bring planes down. Simple yet effective. Pakistan missiles have the range as well as the diameter for radar housing to make AAM. All they need is the appropriate guidance system. S3000 system radar from Ukraine should do the job for ground based tracking system if we can't get the Czechs to sell.
Inducting new equipment is somethig different from having a shopping list. At presnet Pakistan appears to be well behind the times.
On a bright note if Pakistan is developing AAM based on ballistic missiles then it is a positive step forward. I remember reading somewhere that thermoberic type of missiles used against concentrations of aircraft will be the next anti aircraft weapon of choice. The shock wave from the explosion will bring planes down. Simple yet effective. Pakistan missiles have the range as well as the diameter for radar housing to make AAM. All they need is the appropriate guidance system. S3000 system radar from Ukraine should do the job for ground based tracking system if we can't get the Czechs to sell.
ashblackhawk
Banned Member
Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions
thanks
R u really sure about France willing to give the tech !! to pakistan ? I thought they said no even to sell those aircrafts to pakistan !!Oqaab said:
thanks