Pakistan Air Force [PAF] News and Discussions

[Elite-Pilot]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Hey SABRE,

i got a question.....The Chinese spent more than a decade on the J-10 project right? The J-10 was originally made to counter MIR-2000 and F-16's and the J-10 CURRENTLY is capable of a fighter like blk-32,dont you think it would take 6-7 years to make it as capable as blk-52.But by then many more good aircraft will be available to the PAF,so, now dont you think J-10 will be a little bit outta its league? Hopefully the Chinese can get European Avionics when the BAN is placed off. The Chinese can barely make J-10's for themselves read on GLOBALSECURITY.COM that they would only have 100 J-10's by 2015, is this true.

Well i dont blame them cause they do have many problems currently for this a/c's development.

 

[fieldmarshal]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

The Iraqi airforce seams to have actually been bought off!
Now i'm no fan of sadam hussain but i remember the news in 2003 that during the early days of the conflict the chief of the iraqi airforce had been charged by the then iraqi gov for teason for not even fighting and/or sacked - there seams to have been contact between their airfoce and the coalition forces!

Also I have to back you up FM, I think VICTORA1's criteque is way too harsh on PAF!
I personally find that the PAF has done very well over the last two decades wit the equipment they have had like the F6 (great point defence fighter) and the huge suite of MirageIII/5

Even the F7PG is supposed to be an excellent point defender too, as the chinese on a related site say they can give a good account of themselves even against J11/flankers! (within visual range etc)

American Chuck Yager years back also commented in favourable terms about the PAF and there dedication to flying!

I read some where i think it was gen shawarskof commander of alled forces in desert storm part 1. He made the observation that the iraqi pilots were only taught to take off and land basically by the russian, they had some Pakistani and french instructurs but they were kept away by the russian and hence were not able to really train the iraqis.
He went on to say that the allied forces were thankfull for that as had the Pakistani or the french had any sort of influence on the iraqis airforce than things would have been diff.

HARM was used so as to blind the iraqis and in the process to take out their land based air defence and radar sys, as the iraqis had a very elaborate sys.

 

[SABRE]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

i think there is no point in acquiring the mirage2000-9 when the rafale is already available.

How many times we have gone through this discussion. Lets take an expert rather than just civil members like us. GF might have answered your question abt 100 times by now why fighters like Mirage2000-9 are better to be bought than Rafale. I dont have the capacity to go through it again. I'll find GF posts n copy them here or better wait for him to answer ur question.

 

[SABRE]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Hey SABRE,

i got a question.....The Chinese spent more than a decade on the J-10 project right? The J-10 was originally made to counter MIR-2000 and F-16's and the J-10 CURRENTLY is capable of a fighter like blk-32,dont you think it would take 6-7 years to make it as capable as blk-52.But by then many more good aircraft will be available to the PAF,so, now dont you think J-10 will be a little bit outta its league? Hopefully the Chinese can get European Avionics when the BAN is placed off. The Chinese can barely make J-10's for themselves read on GLOBALSECURITY.COM that they would only have 100 J-10's by 2015, is this true.

Well i dont blame them cause they do have many problems currently for this a/c's development.

I have asked few friends, couple of the chinese on is also here. They agree with global security. China is having some hard & slow time in production & export version is still not planned which was roumered to be in early 2005 & I dont think there would be any export version till Chinese complete their induction.

The J-10 was good when it was being planned but due to EU arms ban on china it dint live up to its expectations & had to settle for Chinese & Russian technology onboard it. Its current capability is no where near the Mirage2000-5/9 or latest blocks of F-16 & F-18E/F. Hence China's plans are to induct abt more or less 200 of them.

China will also purchase abt 200 FC-1s which experts now say is more or less junior J-10 with lesser payload.

Anyways with 200 J-10 & 200 FC-1s PLAAF still lacks the high quality good standard multirole platform hence it is roumered that on EU lifts its arms ban China might purchase Mirage2000-5s.

I for one would like to see PLAAF induct Mirage2000-5s. They are too ground over 1000 J-7 fighters & are to induct only 200 J-10 & FC-1s (that makes400 new multirole fighters). Adding Mirages will increase not only the quantity but also quality. For yrs Chinese have been depending on quantity, now they knw they have decrease the quantity & increase quality. There old quantity doctorine is not valid any more infact it wasnt valid at all at any times.

Putting western avionics on J-10 once EU lifts its ban may bring some quality to it but I have my doubts that it could match the performance of Mirage2000-5/9 or US fighters. We'll only have to wait & see.

Its better PLAAF uses Su-30MK2,MK3 (with French avionics) as their main air-superiority fighters & Mirage2000-5 as the main stay multirole platform. Let 200 J-10 & 200 FC-1 perform duties of support fighters to Su-30s & Mirages.

About PAF purchasing J-10. This aint valid report. There have been no such moves by PAF. PAF's believes are that western avionics JF-17 can have qualitative edge over J-10s. The pilots who were sent to train on JF-17 also tried the J-10. They were disappointed. Besides why would we need J-10 when we are getting F-16sBlock 50/52+ C/D, also as I said there is no export versions planned so non for Pakistan. We dnt have time for CAC to plan & than produce export versions for us. We can always get the ToT but that means Chinese transfering some Israeli technology aswell which Israel wouldnt like, not now atleast.

 

[SABRE]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Iraqi aircraft were outclassed by BVR air to air missiles in the first Gulf War. Certain planes were also hit by HARMS, so the great Iraqi airforce wasn't much to talk about. Pakistan should take note of the fact BVR's and HARMS are essential for all combat planes. Not having them can make an airforce obsolete.

Iraqi pilots were following old method of hit run which expired in 1970s when fighters like F-15, F-16 etc came along. Offcourse if you follow that method not only u'll be brought down by BVR Missiles but also WVR Missiles like AIM-9L/M Sidewinders. They dint even put up a fight against these missiles or the USAF & RAF fighters.. Some of them crashed their own air planes when the saw Missiles coming near them & others kept flying straight which makes it way too easy for BVRAAMs to stike. The reason Iraqis had way to much trouble was poor pilot training based on 1950s & 60s for aircrafts like MiG-15 & F-86 Sabres.

 

[Oqaab]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Can you give me the link of the article or newspaper !! Was that offer along with transfer of tech. ? thanks

First of all, the news was from Pakistan's official news service "Jang" and its urdu newspaper so news items are images not links.

Transfer of tech was not discussed. (Price already high ... lack of funds).

The avionics package was discussed mainly.

 

[P.A.F]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

http://www.pakistanlink.com/Headlines/Sep05/21/04.htm

News

No US policy change on F16: Kasuri

NEW YORK Sep 21 : Foreign Minister Khurshid Mehmood Kasuri has said that there is no policy change on F-16 by US government as they confirmed Pakistan to provide the latest versions of F16 under CND category.

Speaking to NNI Kasuri said no such issue was raised, if there was any change then US would have discussed with President Musharraf on his recent US visit.
Kasuriu however confirmed that Pakistan will not sign Letter of Offer (LOA) and acceptance if our defense requirements are not fulfilled. He said F16 is not a toy that Pakistan get it to show off strong Pak-US relations.

Kasuri was unaware of the June and August meetings to discuss on the weapon and laser equipments and were postponed for next year.

Indian Airforce is equipped with AGIL, Reactor and also have BVB Beyond Visual Range Missiles, with Air surveillance technology. Pakistan requires frequency to match with Indians, if not the same somewhat similar to technology India process.
Despite US President Bush assurance to balance both the rivals, the US National Security Council (NSC), the approving authority has so far held to approve Pakistan desire.


The June meeting of Pakistan and US Air force headed by deputy chief of air staff Shehzad Chaudhry along with Operation Chief, and Director Falcon Project of Operational Research Development was postponed for August 7th, but the August meeting was also postponed as the Americans still held Pakistani demands of mounting the desired radar's and missiles systems.

By August, F-16 issue was not cleared by NSC. National Security Council the matter of F-16 is now delayed through year 2006 as Congress gone for recess and Pakistan having TRI High Rate exercise of the three forces, Army, Navy and Air force together.


Any deal over $25 million or any item under IEAR International traffic and arms register list go to Congress for Approval through NSC, the congress approves or rescind. In case it is on hold with the congress for 90 days it is cleared and passed. Congress Vote only comes up if anti lobbyist becomes active. All Congress procedure starts after LOA letter of offer and Acceptance.

The F-16 issue to be submitted to Congress after NSC approves and Pakistan Ministry of Defense signs the LOA. If NSC approved F 16 case after the approval from Congress the F 16 would be delivered to Pakistan in 2 and a half year time.

Pakistan will have meeting with US Air force USAFIA US AIRFORCE INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS, and DSCA Defense Security Cooperation Agency part of Pentagon will decide the case.

Government of Pakistan to convince the public of strong Pak-US relations might sign LOA without having their desired instruments in F16's said a diplomat. He said in that case the F16's will be a junk.

Pakistan maintaining its position having equipped their F 16 with desired systems will pay $42 to $43 million for one F 16. The contract of 75 F-16 will cost Pakistan roughly $3billion to be paid in 3 to 5 years. Previously in 80's Pakistan purchased the same aircrafts for $ 18 to $ 21 million each.

Indians while signing for such heavy equipment's with western powers put the clause in their agreements "not to sell to Pakistan". Indians generally sign conditional contracts. Having larger quantity contracts Indians have leverage to put such conditions.

 

[Hussain]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

It appears to be the same old story with the sale of large quantities of new F16's. What is the point of waiting 3 yrs for reasonable amounts of deliveries. By that time advanced avionics/weapons systems should have been developed for the the thunder.

Has anybody thought of long term spare supplies? Pakistan should get their hands on second hand F16's and spares to service the planes. Despite having the status of non NATO ally it would appear that the US's new friend on the block is India and the US willing to supply India anything it wishes. Maybe Pakistan is seen as being too close to China.Maybe the US wants more leverage aginst by Pakistan by using spares supplies as an issue in the future. Once again the Pakistani's are running around like headless chickens courting one power group in the US after another. Let's see if the Jewish Congress will take pity on the Pakistan's and support their request for more weapons sales and aid. But I wouldn't hold my breatn.

With regard to Mirage 2000's. Back in the early 90's the Pakistani's wished to purchase the Mirage 2000 and the SU27. Nawaz wen running around for the supply of these planes. Absalutely nothing came of it. One of the reasons was apparently that Pakistan wanted to put their own developed systems on the Mirage 2000 and therefore wanted the most basic Mirage 2000. Dassault refused.

15 yrs on why hasn't Pakistan been able to develop sophisticated systems for the JF17's which they apparently had for the Mirage 2000's? Once again it sounds like toal rubbish. What fighter has Pakistan really got to match the Indian planes? Nothing at all. Even if they got their hand on the most sophisticated F16's the Indian quantity will be still too much for these planes. The SU27 is being developed and enhanced all the time by India. It has the range, endurance, ability to carry a large radar with sophisticated ECM's. The SU27 has the ability to make an excellent bomber and command post (mini AWACS type of system with data link capability). It is China's main workhorse and a serious concern for the US. Why didn't the Pakistani's ask for J11's or buy the ones from Ukraine? Maybe because their Mirage's and F7P's and Nanchung A5's are still the a match for the very best of India's planes?

 

[Hussain]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Iraqi pilots were following old method of hit run which expired in 1970s when fighters like F-15, F-16 etc came along. Offcourse if you follow that method not only u'll be brought down by BVR Missiles but also WVR Missiles like AIM-9L/M Sidewinders. They dint even put up a fight against these missiles or the USAF & RAF fighters.. Some of them crashed their own air planes when the saw Missiles coming near them & others kept flying straight which makes it way too easy for BVRAAMs to stike. The reason Iraqis had way to much trouble was poor pilot training based on 1950s & 60s for aircrafts like MiG-15 & F-86 Sabres.

Iraqi airforce equipomet was in many ways more sophisticated then what Pakistan has got today. They had Mig 29's, MirageF1's, SU24 and Mig 25's. Their pilots were trained in the UK and the US. Pakistani pilots were also trained with F-86 sabres and Mig-15's. Against india will they end up in the same way? And is India the only country Pakistan requires a first rate airforce for?

 

[SABRE]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Iraqi airforce equipomet was in many ways more sophisticated then what Pakistan has got today. They had Mig 29's, MirageF1's, SU24 and Mig 25's. Their pilots were trained in the UK and the US. Pakistani pilots were also trained with F-86 sabres and Mig-15's. Against india will they end up in the same way? And is India the only country Pakistan requires a first rate airforce for?

You obviously dont get it do you. Read again. You have no chance of servival if u r following old "Hit & Run" formula. I already told u Iraqis kept on flying straight which makes it easier for any missile to strike tht aircraft & some of them even crashed their own aircrafts when they saw in coming missiles. Thats some good training by UK & US I think...lol.

& what happened to their good training when Iraqi AirForce rather than putting up resistance flew their fighters over to Iran for safe keeping & during recent invasion they burried their aircrafts in sand. I dont knw wheather UK & US give this high class training any more

BTW do u think an AirForce with MirageF-1, MiG-29, MiG-25, MiG-21, Su-24 & 25 be training in UK & US or Russia & France ????

As far as the PAF is concerned it is not at a war. Its modernization includes BVRAAMs such as French MICA, US AIM-120AMRAAM, Chinese SD-10. NESCOM made H-2 & H-4 (H-2 & H-4 are Air to Ground BVR Missiles) & NESCOM reverse engineered S-Darter & T-Darter BVRAAM of south Africa.
Most of these missiles have already been inducted & H-4 has been test just recently.

As for the radars are concerned PAF has got Technology Transfer of Griff S-7 & Griffo-M radars from Italy. They are going to be mounted on early versions of JF-17s & on export versions produced by PAC, Kamra. Griffo S-7 & Griffo-M are BVR capable & are also installed on F-7PG & Mirage-5 ROSE II,III. Another undisclosed Radar is mounted on PAF's Mirage-5 ROSE III by SEGAM.

The latest F-16 Block 50/52+ will offcourse come with latest Radars (PAF to get 75 new, 2 2nd hand & MLU of all the 35+ operational F-16s, the radars on MLU would be changed).

 

[BilalK]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

People, think of it this way, we haven't ordered the F-16s yet, and at this point the chances of us ordering Mirage 2000-5Mk2s would be slim, so, consider the current F-16 issue thus far as a blessing.

Pakistan is not gearing for war, the F-16s are there for our own needs, and we do not depend on the IAF's actions. The F-16s, may it be 75 brand new, or 150 brand new, are there for our own requirements.

 

[Hussain]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Wasn't the point made earlier that the Mirage 3 and 5 airframes were not able to withstand long term use. The Mirage 3 is the most sophisticated aeroplane in Pakistan's inventory, but apart from that what has Pakistan got in its inventory.


With regard to Iraqi tactics. Firstly no nation , except for China, is able or willing to take on the US in a head to head air war. Will Pakistani pilots consider that ,whether theoretical or other, if the issue arose ? Prior to the invasion of Afghanistan a choice was given to Pakistan and Pakistan opted for a particular choice.
The idea of an airforce is to help win wars against any nation. The idea of a soldier is to sacrifice ones self for an ideal. Now when one talks about Pakistan's airforce capability it is too narrow minded to think about just India, even though that is Pakistan's traditional enemy. Pakistan needs to have amodern well equiped airforce with excellent high tech and medium tech planes. At present all Pakistani planes are medium to low tech. The F16's that Pakistan may get won't be high tech considering the various types of aircraft other nations are now fielding. So why has Pakistan allowed this erosion to take place? The induction of new fighters hasn't happend. It is all guess work at present. No contracts have been signed and no deliveries have been scheduled. If Pakistan is not happy with the F16's then where else will it go for its planes? How many more yrs will Pakistan determine the best choice for itds fourth generation fighter. Pakistan should have gone for the Rafale, despite the heavy cost. It would be invaluable in protecting nuclear and other high vlue targets. Pakistan has no S300v type of system and according to defence journals its SAM systems are weak and leaky.

If the scenario ever arose that Israel or India attacked Pkistan nuclear facilities with F16's or SU27's with the latest avionics and jammers will Pakistan's fighters be up for the job of a imited air to air war

 

[fieldmarshal]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Wasn't the point made earlier that the Mirage 3 and 5 airframes were not able to withstand long term use. The Mirage 3 is the most sophisticated aeroplane in Pakistan's inventory, but apart from that what has Pakistan got in its inventory.


With regard to Iraqi tactics. Firstly no nation , except for China, is able or willing to take on the US in a head to head air war. Will Pakistani pilots consider that ,whether theoretical or other, if the issue arose ? Prior to the invasion of Afghanistan a choice was given to Pakistan and Pakistan opted for a particular choice.
The idea of an airforce is to help win wars against any nation. The idea of a soldier is to sacrifice ones self for an ideal. Now when one talks about Pakistan's airforce capability it is too narrow minded to think about just India, even though that is Pakistan's traditional enemy. Pakistan needs to have amodern well equiped airforce with excellent high tech and medium tech planes. At present all Pakistani planes are medium to low tech. The F16's that Pakistan may get won't be high tech considering the various types of aircraft other nations are now fielding. So why has Pakistan allowed this erosion to take place? The induction of new fighters hasn't happend. It is all guess work at present. No contracts have been signed and no deliveries have been scheduled. If Pakistan is not happy with the F16's then where else will it go for its planes? How many more yrs will Pakistan determine the best choice for itds fourth generation fighter. Pakistan should have gone for the Rafale, despite the heavy cost. It would be invaluable in protecting nuclear and other high vlue targets. Pakistan has no S300v type of system and according to defence journals its SAM systems are weak and leaky.

If the scenario ever arose that Israel or India attacked Pkistan nuclear facilities with F16's or SU27's with the latest avionics and jammers will Pakistan's fighters be up for the job of a imited air to air war

Buddy i dont know wt u prob or greviance against PAF, but u make it sound as if u live in a fanatcy world more like in a vacum, where no external forces have an effect and things change in the blink of an eye. Plz dont get me wrong.

Why are u goin on about the mirage 2000, when Pakistan was interested in buyin these birds the french were demanding exubrant price, hence it was not thought fesiable to buy m2k. As PAF could not precure the required no, so no point. But i am sure had u and the likes of u come forward and offered to finance the deal the PAF would have been more than happy to induct the said ac.
India has been operating the mirage 2000 for more than 2 decades now and basically know the inside out of the ac, so how stupid it would have been for the PAF to buy an ac which ur enemy knows more than u do.
Buying m2k at this point in time would be a waste of money unless we get em really cheap, even though some of the systems incorporated upon the m2k9 are that of rafale but the m2k has reached the end of its develpment cycle and can not be upgraded furthur, so it would be foolish to go for it now/ever.

Rafale is not fully developed as yet ie as a multi role fighter or as the french call it "omni role fighter", right now u can get it either in the naval version or in the air suppority role. the multi role version of rafale ie the standard 4 will not be comming on to the scene any time soon, as dasault has no money for its development so is looking for financiers for the project. plus the price per copy at the moment is too high, so rafale need time to mature

with the rose upgrade the mirage has been turned into 1 hell of a beast of an ac. and to keep the mirage 3/5 going PAF bought/buying all the airframes/spares from around the world. . also the f-7pg is a good and compatant machine. these said ac are more than a match for any thing india has and believe me i am not just saying this.

I have said it before and i will say it again PAF unlike iaf is not in the habit of advertising things. There are so many things happening behind the scene just because u dont hear somthing does not mean nothin is happening.

DO u know that if war broke out iaf would be hard pressed to even field 50% of its ac against PAF while u can rest assured PAF will be able to field if not all than cloose to 95+% of its ac.
n get off PAF back!!!!.

 

[fieldmarshal]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Wasn't the point made earlier that the Mirage 3 and 5 airframes were not able to withstand long term use. The Mirage 3 is the most sophisticated aeroplane in Pakistan's inventory, but apart from that what has Pakistan got in its inventory.


With regard to Iraqi tactics. Firstly no nation , except for China, is able or willing to take on the US in a head to head air war. Will Pakistani pilots consider that ,whether theoretical or other, if the issue arose ? Prior to the invasion of Afghanistan a choice was given to Pakistan and Pakistan opted for a particular choice.
The idea of an airforce is to help win wars against any nation. The idea of a soldier is to sacrifice ones self for an ideal. Now when one talks about Pakistan's airforce capability it is too narrow minded to think about just India, even though that is Pakistan's traditional enemy. Pakistan needs to have amodern well equiped airforce with excellent high tech and medium tech planes. At present all Pakistani planes are medium to low tech. The F16's that Pakistan may get won't be high tech considering the various types of aircraft other nations are now fielding. So why has Pakistan allowed this erosion to take place? The induction of new fighters hasn't happend. It is all guess work at present. No contracts have been signed and no deliveries have been scheduled. If Pakistan is not happy with the F16's then where else will it go for its planes? How many more yrs will Pakistan determine the best choice for itds fourth generation fighter. Pakistan should have gone for the Rafale, despite the heavy cost. It would be invaluable in protecting nuclear and other high vlue targets. Pakistan has no S300v type of system and according to defence journals its SAM systems are weak and leaky.

If the scenario ever arose that Israel or India attacked Pkistan nuclear facilities with F16's or SU27's with the latest avionics and jammers will Pakistan's fighters be up for the job of a imited air to air war

How can u say that the f-16 that the PAF will be getting from the us will not be hi-tech, how have u come up with that conclsion when u or any 1 else knows the specs of the ac. how can u make such sweeping claims.
lets consider that PAF gets the block 52+, now type of avonics package/weapons package that this plane long with will basically run circles around any thing india has including the mki. plus wt PAF is buyin ie the f-16 has a proven track record in all theaters of operations, where ever it has gone it has excelled, while the flanker series of ac (even though they look good on paper) that our enemy has is yet distinguish it self any where, so as things stand they are no more than a flying circus.

Dont u think that isreal/india has not looked and tried to attack PAK nuclear facilities???? isreal, had it had the opertunity would have not even though twice about attacking our nuclear facilities. It is a testimant to the fighting capability and spirit of PAF that the two refrained from any such adventure even though as u put PAF is so out dated and out moded

As things stand on the ground at the moment PAF has given a hiding to iaf, each and every war/battle that iaf has had the misfortune to come across PAF. So thats wt the reality is. the indians sat on our border for more than a year n y they did not do any thing if our armedforces were so weak???
Not only this but in every encouter that PAF came across isreali af the result was in favour of PAF.
PAF pilots and tecnicians are operating basically in all of the arab airforce(one time or the other) why dont they invite the iaf pilots/technicians to do the same if according to u they so good.

I have said it before n i will say it again arm chair warriors like you and me need to take it easy and not to believe every thing u read as the source of all ur info is second n even in some cases third hand. In most cases even that is not true. so my brotherly advise to u is to take it easy n relax and leave the fighting to the professionals.

 

[aaaditya]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Buddy i dont know wt u prob or greviance against PAF, but u make it sound as if u live in a fanatcy world more like in a vacum, where no external forces have an effect and things change in the blink of an eye. Plz dont get me wrong.

Why are u goin on about the mirage 2000, when Pakistan was interested in buyin these birds the french were demanding exubrant price, hence it was not thought fesiable to buy m2k. As PAF could not precure the required no, so no point. But i am sure had u and the likes of u come forward and offered to finance the deal the PAF would have been more than happy to induct the said ac.
India has been operating the mirage 2000 for more than 2 decades now and basically know the inside out of the ac, so how stupid it would have been for the PAF to buy an ac which ur enemy knows more than u do.
Buying m2k at this point in time would be a waste of money unless we get em really cheap, even though some of the systems incorporated upon the m2k9 are that of rafale but the m2k has reached the end of its develpment cycle and can not be upgraded furthur, so it would be foolish to go for it now/ever.

Rafale is not fully developed as yet ie as a multi role fighter or as the french call it "omni role fighter", right now u can get it either in the naval version or in the air suppority role. the multi role version of rafale ie the standard 4 will not be comming on to the scene any time soon, as dasault has no money for its development so is looking for financiers for the project. plus the price per copy at the moment is too high, so rafale need time to mature

with the rose upgrade the mirage has been turned into 1 hell of a beast of an ac. and to keep the mirage 3/5 going PAF bought/buying all the airframes/spares from around the world. . also the f-7pg is a good and compatant machine. these said ac are more than a match for any thing india has and believe me i am not just saying this.

I have said it before and i will say it again PAF unlike iaf is not in the habit of advertising things. There are so many things happening behind the scene just because u dont hear somthing does not mean nothin is happening.

DO u know that if war broke out iaf would be hard pressed to even field 50% of its ac against PAF while u can rest assured PAF will be able to field if not all than cloose to 95+% of its ac.
n get off PAF back!!!!.[/QU

france was reported to have quoted 45million dollars per aircraft for the mirage2000-5 but the pakistani airforce faced opposistion from the army and navy and had to abandon the plans,now the aircraft costs around 55-60million dollars per aircraft,wonder what made the prices expend to such an extent?
by the way it came in todays hindu paper that usa has assured pakistan that it will supply it with a latest defence system to counter india soon.any idea what it can be

 

[fieldmarshal]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

i dont know where u got ur info that the PA & the PN opposed the sale, as at the time funds were alocated specificly for the purpose of the aqusition of the said ac.
As PAF was looking for a loan arrangement with the french n the french wanted an arm and a leg, hence the price had gone up considerably. so PAF had to cut nos. but than common sence prevailed and the paf opted out. it instead bought the pg from china and upgraded it with advanced radar and avionics. so turned it into a pretty decent ac for a fraction of the cost of wt the m2k5 would have cost.

 

[Hussain]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Its nice to hear that Pakistan is buying up more airframes for the Mirages and that this plane should continue into front line service for a considerable period of time. If the Mirages can soldier on then the JF17 should replace the F7P and A5C's.


As afr as the F16's go, let's see what the US regards as sophisticated for Pakistan. Are they willing to provide F15's and F18's as they did to India?

 

[SABRE]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Its nice to hear that Pakistan is buying up more airframes for the Mirages and that this plane should continue into front line service for a considerable period of time. If the Mirages can soldier on then the JF17 should replace the F7P and A5C's.

No mirages are only staying till JF-17 come out but they'll be last to go.

Are they willing to provide F15's and F18's as they did to India?

Some how PAF doesnt have a taste for twin engine fighters....PAF pilots fly F-15 with RSAF but still PAF is not in for it. ACM like F-18E/F & PN also took a look at them & into them. They were brought to Karachi by US Navy. They can fill in the gap of 3rd fighter but there have been no reported actions taken in order for inducting them. All AVM says is that the option of 3rd high tech fighter is available from europe & any one would be inducted after practical evaluation.

 

[webmaster]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Until there is any more "NEWS" on this issue, I am locking this topic. Please don't OPEN any new thread on Pak Air Force. Once there is any good solid development, we will open it. Other than that, most of the arguments have been discussed many times and now it's time to discuss something else, something other than Pakistan air force for a change.

 

[P.A.F]

US to sell 77 'acquired' F-16s to Pakistan: Karamat

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/003200510021431.htm

US to sell 77 'acquired' F-16s to Pakistan: Karamat


Islamabad, Oct. 2 (PTI): Pakistan will buy 77 F-16 jets from the US -- which Washington would acquire from a third country -- for its Air Force after they are fitted with the state-of-the-art equipment, Islamabad's Ambassador to America Gen (Retd) Jehangir Karamat, said.

The F-16s would be acquired from a third country but the supply would be made by the US, Karamat was quoted as saying by the local daily 'The News' but the paper did not specify whether Washington was procuring used aircraft.

The upgradation and installation of equipment would be carried out by the manufacturer in the US and all the aircraft would be fitted with the sate-of-the-art equipment to meet Pakistan's requirements, he said.

Karamat said the American Government has already approved the F-16 deal with Pakistan and it would come for discussion before the US Congress in October and November.

He said besides approving the F-16 deal with Pakistan, the US would provide it 20 state-of-the-art Cobra helicopters.

Apparently allaying apprehensions over the quality of the planes as they were being "acquired" from other countries, he said there is no question about the quality and lifespan of the jets as they would be "first rate by all standards."

Pakistan had last year sought the F-16 models capable of firing medium-range air-to-air Beyond Visual Ranger (BVR), AMRAAM Missiles, which have the ability to hit a target beyond 60 km range.

Billed as fire and forget category, BVRs were considered to be most advanced missiles which Pakistan Air Force (PAF) so far did not have. Last year, the US had initially proposed to sell 24 F-16s, each costing around 40 million dollars.

As per the delivery schedule, Karamat said Pakistan would be given two F-16s by December followed by supply of 20 in next year and the rest of 55 in 2007.

The PAF, which has about 30 F-16s acquired in 1980s, is currently modernising its aged fleet by buying used French-made Mirages as well as jointly producing F-7 Thunder with China. PAF has also already procured several Mirage fighters from Libya.

About President George W Bush's plans to visit the region, Karamat said indications are that the US leader's visit to the sub-continent may materialise in February next year during which he would also come to Pakistan.

Expressing satisfaction over the defence, political, economic, trade and social sector cooperation between the US and Pakistan, he said Islamabad is closely watching the pattern of emerging close cooperation between the US and India on sharing of the civilian-nuclear technology.

He said Pakistan too has growing energy requirements and wish to acquire US nuclear power plants in future.

Pakistan wanted that any US legislation on transferring the nuclear technology should not be made country-specific. "The legislation must also open similar US cooperation with Pakistan," he said. On the Bush Administration's crackdown on terror suspects in the US, he said Washington is deporting criminals, violators of laws and illegal immigrants. No excess with peace-loving Pakistanis or any other country's nationals have been reported, he added.