Pakistan Air Force [PAF] News and Discussions

[kashifshahzad]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Well i for one definitely agree on this point since Rafale n typhoon seem to be out of reach it would be a good idea to go for F-15sor 18s , rather if i had my personal say i would definitely vouch 4 F-15s equipped with latest AESA APG-63 V3 radars plus host of other goodies, it seems that these latest additions has really given F-15 s a new lease of life since it seems to be winning every contest where it was pitted against the Rafale or Typhoon!!!

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SABRE after PAF settling with F-16s issue you know PAF will want a plane which should be superior to the the F-16s or least they must be similar to the F-16s.
I know Rafale will reamin an Orphan because of its high price and no chance for the induction of EF-2000 a lot of countries are partners firstly the earlier versions would be used by them then an export varient will come and will be expoted this is going to be tricky,expensive and too late for the PAF.ANd if JAS 39 Gripen then its better to buy more F-16s form US.It uses US engine (chance for the senction why not buy things directly).

I think the options for the PAF are limited what do you think about the induction of F-15s or F-18s they are good planes and they can do the job in PAF

AC having latest radar and greater range will definetely suit PAF if we can get A2A missile having greater range then 50 km then this will really give a hard punch to enemies.For air superiority F-16 can do best but i have seen F-18 in a movie it took off from a carrier and its performance was really good i know which we see in the airshows is not the reality and that which we see in the movie is just animated but the real statistics are not the same so lets see what happens after this F-16s deal

 

[kashifshahzad]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

I want to ask a question from all experts here that Why cant Fighter Aircrafts have hardpoints on upper wings all planes have underwing hard points if ACs have upper wing hardpoints in this way they can carry more AAMs and AGMs which are mostly required by the ACs during missions and if we add plane's tail that can also be used for hardpoints.If this thing is applied then surely the hardpoins can be increased to 20 or more then that and this can give a multimission a full fledge fighter aircraft if there are drawbacks then please mention i would be pleased to hear them
regards kashif

 

[srirangan]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

I want to ask a question from all experts here that Why cant Fighter Aircrafts have hardpoints on upper wings all planes have underwing hard points if ACs have upper wing hardpoints in this way they can carry more AAMs and AGMs which are mostly required by the ACs during missions and if we add plane's tail that can also be used for hardpoints.If this thing is applied then surely the hardpoins can be increased to 20 or more then that and this can give a multimission a full fledge fighter aircraft if there are drawbacks then please mention i would be pleased to hear them
regards kashif

Do you want the plane to fly?

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

I want to ask a question from all experts here that Why cant Fighter Aircrafts have hardpoints on upper wings

There have been aircraft with overwing hard points. IIRC The RAF Jaguars and Lightnings and Indian AF Jaguars are over wing railed for AAM's

all planes have underwing hard points if ACs have upper wing hardpoints in this way they can carry more AAMs and AGMs

You just can't add hard points to increase load options. The wings have to be rated, the aircraft needs to be rated and there needs to be a compelling need for it

which are mostly required by the ACs during missions and if we add plane's tail that can also be used for hardpoints.If this thing is applied then surely the hardpoins can be increased to 20 or more then that and this can give a multimission a full fledge fighter aircraft if there are drawbacks then please mention i would be pleased to hear them
regards kashif

See above

 

[kashifshahzad]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Do you want the plane to fly?

Dear when i have said that AC should have hardpoints on the upperwing then i didnt said that i shoudnt fly mate AAMs and AGM are lighter in weight then the bombs there must be other squadrons for that purpose having differnet varients of the planes these AC manufacturing compnies aren't able to do that i know there would be need to increase some payload but see you are getting heavy duty results a plane having 20 hardpoints and it can shoot down a enemy squadron if it have a powerfull long range radar.

Admin edit: The following: Dont talk senceless SRI. is unacceptable. Do not respond like this in future.

There have been aircraft with overwing hard points. IIRC The RAF Jaguars and Lightnings and Indian AF Jaguars are over wing railed for AAM's

You just can't add hard points to increase load options. The wings have to be rated, the aircraft needs to be rated and there needs to be a compelling need for it

see above the AAMs and AGMs are lighter in weight.e.g two persons can hold an AAM and can fit it onto the plane then why cant plane have hardpoins on the upperwing

There is another idea that plane having something like that which we see in the hightech airforce movies i mean to say that planes have something which have 6-8 missiles which are fixed underneath the engine where mostly bombs or fuel tanks are attached this can't also disturb the balance and in this way plane will have more missiles to fire at the targets

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

see above the AAMs and AGMs are lighter in weight.e.g two persons can hold an AAM and can fit it onto the plane then why cant plane have hardpoins on the upperwing

It needs to be fundamental to the initial design of the plane. The only thing you can mount on there is an AAM - and even then, those planes that did have overwing mounts did so because they didn't have enough real estate available elsewhere on the airframe. - It's not a desirable feature - and hasn't been for well over 30 years.

There is another idea that plane having something like that which we see in the hightech airforce movies i mean to say that planes have something which have 6-8 missiles which are fixed underneath the engine where mostly bombs or fuel tanks are attached this can't also disturb the balance and in this way plane will have more missiles to fire at the targets

Planes designed for rotary launchers are designed for heavy strike missions - they are designed from the ground up for that dispenser. Planes with multiple rails like the Su-30 or SuperHornets are capable of carrying that many weapons - they're designed to do so.

You just can't add rails and expect it to work. The plane has to be re-certified for those weapons as well as the rails. It is a non trivial task. Even concatentating a rail requires recertification.

In an environment where everyone is actually trying to minimise their RCS, it's going to be highly unlikely and unattractive to increase the pilots chances of being detected by sticking redundant weapons on top.

There is a reason why nobody has done it for over 35 years - it's a lousy idea with more negatives than positives.

 

[aaaditya]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

I want to ask a question from all experts here that Why cant Fighter Aircrafts have hardpoints on upper wings all planes have underwing hard points if ACs have upper wing hardpoints in this way they can carry more AAMs and AGMs which are mostly required by the ACs during missions and if we add plane's tail that can also be used for hardpoints.If this thing is applied then surely the hardpoins can be increased to 20 or more then that and this can give a multimission a full fledge fighter aircraft if there are drawbacks then please mention i would be pleased to hear them
regards kashif

i believe because the exhaust plume from the missile will disturb the airflow on the wings thus causing turbulent airflow which will effect the performance of the aircraft the shape (cross section of the missile) will increase the drag(profile drag)which will further effect the performance of the aircraft ,the heat and the gases in the exhaust plume can damage the surface(and in some cases cause corrosion),i believe some aircrafts have pylons mounted above the wing.:coffee

 

[HAPPYBIRTHDAY]

Sources of My Information about PAK E 2A

Admin Comment: This is the third time you have posted this item. It has been deleted before because it fails to meet posting standards. It is deleted now for the same reason (!)

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[kashifshahzad]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

i believe because the exhaust plume from the missile will disturb the airflow on the wings thus causing turbulent airflow which will effect the performance of the aircraft the shape (cross section of the missile) will increase the drag(profile drag)which will further effect the performance of the aircraft ,the heat and the gases in the exhaust plume can damage the surface(and in some cases cause corrosion),i believe some aircrafts have pylons mounted above the wing.:coffee

Aaaditya thats sounds good i really forgot that this can happen i think it would be better to increase the hard points under the wings same like SUs,Rafales and EF have.Any chinees plane dosent have those hard points except those which are licesenced copies of SUs if thunder had those then this could be an egde in the defence and also in the exports.
Gf0012-aust sorry about that comment above he is my freind he can understand that but sorry i shouldnt have posted it here

 

[SABRE]

Re: Here is Intersting thing about PAF

E3 has considerably greater range than 320km - it is also further than the E2C.

Yes sorry I made a mistake...I got confused between Radar Range & its operating altitudes range. It should certainly be greater than E2C's.

SABRE after PAF settling with F-16s issue you know PAF will want a plane which should be superior to the the F-16s or least they must be similar to the F-16s.

I know Rafale will reamin an Orphan because of its high price and no chance for the induction of EF-2000 a lot of countries are partners firstly the earlier versions would be used by them then an export varient will come and will be expoted this is going to be tricky,expensive and too late for the PAF.ANd if JAS 39 Gripen then its better to buy more F-16s form US.It uses US engine (chance for the senction why not buy things directly).

I think the options for the PAF are limited what do you think about the induction of F-15s or F-18s they are good planes and they can do the job in PAF

ACM likes F-18 thats for sure but I dont think Pakistan is willing to go for another US fighter considering the history of arms ban on Pakistan by them. F-16 is a sort of need & user friendlu fighter so PAF is willing to go for it but also has made a back up just in case.

On the other hand AVM said that the 3rd fighter would be hightech fighter & from Europe.

PN looked at the F-18s not PAF. They like them. May be if they want to form separate naval avaition fighter sqdn & separate from PAF than they go for them but I dont think PAF will now since they have chosen F-16s.
F-15 is good but PAF pilots who have had taste of them in KSA say F-16s suit PAF better so I dont think F-15 will ever get into PAF even though I would prefer them over Gripens. There is no need for another MultiRole fighter.

 

[aaaditya]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Aaaditya thats sounds good i really forgot that this can happen i think it would be better to increase the hard points under the wings same like SUs,Rafales and EF have.Any chinees plane dosent have those hard points except those which are licesenced copies of SUs if thunder had those then this could be an egde in the defence and also in the exports.
Gf0012-aust sorry about that comment above he is my freind he can understand that but sorry i shouldnt have posted it here

kashif it is not that easy if you want to increase the number of hardpoints under the wings first you will have to increase the strength of the wing so that it can withstand the increased load,otherwise the wing may deform or crack and this can lead to loss of the aircraft.:coffee

 

[chaoticsensatio]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

I heard that PAF had a fatal plane crash yesterday during the exercise. does any one has any info on that ?

 

[srirangan]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

I heard that PAF had a fatal plane crash yesterday during the exercise. does any one has any info on that ?

The last crash was at Mianwali in Punjab. It was a Mirage III. Was there any other crash after that??

 

[pshamim]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

First phase of High Mark-2005 has ended. What is really interesting is the comment by Air Commodore Junaid Amin, the assistant chief of air staff (Operations) that Pakistan now has 35 operational F-16s and not 32 as believed earlier. According to him, Pakistan will be receiving 75 new F-16s within the next 4-5 years, and Pakistani Pilots are already trained to fly them and need no further training.
Does this mean Blk-60 as PAF pilots have been flying UAE Blk-60 at the moment. Even if Pakistan receives the blk-50/52, pilots flying the blk-60 should have no difficulty flying them. Induction looks like to go smooth.

High Mark 2005’s first phase concludes
By Mohammad Imran

TILLA JOGIAN: The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) on Thursday staged a live firepower demonstration featuring different combat aircraft. The event was organised in collaboration with the Army aviation and artillery units during the High Mark 2005 exercises held in the Tilla Jogian Firing Range (Jhelum).

Participating aircraft included F 7-PG, Mirage, A-5 and Cobra helicopters. Journalists from Lahore and Islamabad were invited to witness the demonstration. During the demonstration, the combat aircraft carried out 60 sorties and conducted level bombing and staffing operations from an altitude of 250 feet. The aircraft fired bombs during the level bombing demonstration.

A JAAT operation was also conducted in which the Cobra helicopters, artillery guns and the fighter aircraft participated hitting targets successfully. Convoys and bunkers of the Foxland were also targeted during the demonstration. Talking to journalists, Air Commodore Junaid Amin, the assistant chief of air staff (Operations), said that Pakistan currently has 35 F-16 aircraft in operational condition. He added that Pakistan would be able to secure 75 more F-16s in the next four or five years. He said Pakistani pilots could fly the new F-16s and there was no need for training them further. He said the first phase of High Mark 2005 was complete and the second phase had begun, but been hindered by bad weather. He said the exercise was designed to validate some of PAF’s operational concepts and would therefore encourage useful analysis for steering future forces employment concepts as well as shaping training contours of future air combatants

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_16-9-2005_pg7_50

 

[SABRE]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

First phase of High Mark-2005 has ended. What is really interesting is the comment by Air Commodore Junaid Amin, the assistant chief of air staff (Operations) that Pakistan now has 35 operational F-16s and not 32 as believed earlier.

Yes pshamim...I think you are right on 35 F-16s. What I had found was that 34 were operational. Looks like one more has been brought back to life.

The F-16s which were not operational were actualy lacking parts & some small rebuilding. Since PAF couldnt do that on its own some time ago they started to canabalize some of their parts. Now it seems like LH-M & US might have sent some components & people to rebuild the broken sections. The operational number may reach to 36 to 37. I remember AVM saying that all 39 are intact (but he dint tell how many are operational) in an interview with GEO.

According to him, Pakistan will be receiving 75 new F-16s within the next 4-5 years, and Pakistani Pilots are already trained to fly them and need no further training.

Does this mean Blk-60 as PAF pilots have been flying UAE Blk-60 at the moment. Even if Pakistan receives the blk-50/52, pilots flying the blk-60 should have no difficulty flying them. Induction looks like to go smooth.

Well if not training on flying F-16s than atleast PAF will require training on new features & avionics of Block50/52+ C/D. Remember only handful PAF pilots fly Block 60 since oly handful block 60 have reached UAE at the moment. UAE will not allow them to come to Pakistan, it will put stress on their force & fleet. PAF will require US trainers.

I doubt we'll have Block 60E/F. The number wouldnt have been 75 it would have been lower on the other hand Block 60 can replace the idea of inducting 3rd fighter since it is up their in the league of Rafale. If PAF is willing to sacrafice 3rd fighter's induction that 75 F-16 with some of them being block 60 is possible.

 

[chaoticsensatio]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Yes pshamim...I think you are right on 35 F-16s. What I had found was that 34 were operational. Looks like one more has been brought back to life.

That can be very interesting development. the F-16s that were nonoperational were having problems with parts that Pakistan was unable to manufacture due to metallergy limitations. there can only be two possiblities, either Pakistan has received those parts from US which I dont recall that PAF got any parts delivery, or other , if Pakistan has obtained required tech with the help of china. does any body has any info on that?

 

[Hussain]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

I thought pakistan had lost at least 2 or 3 F16's during Afghan conflict. That would leave around 37 F16's.

Pakistan in the past had apparently 32 operational F16's. That leaves 5 in storage.

 

[Hussain]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

If the stored F16's had structural problems and China has asisted in rectifying these problems could China have provided F10 metal to solve these problems. F16's aren't made out of titanium alloy I don't think?

What is the difference betwen the structure of the JF17 , F10 and F16? The F22 is fully titanium isn't it? In any case China produces titanium and that could be used on F16's for replacement panels. It is lighter and stronger than aluminium/sreel alloys.

 

[kashifshahzad]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

PAF must have received spares which were used for the other F-16's this must be in the package of 75 F-16s with older PAF F-16s getting MLUed and also get those F-16s operational which were not in use of PAF

 

[rafale_2k5]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Does this mean Blk-60 as PAF pilots have been flying UAE Blk-60 at the moment. Even if Pakistan receives the blk-50/52, pilots flying the blk-60 should have no difficulty flying them. Induction looks like to go smooth.


Well if u compare the numbers which is around 7-8 aircrafts per annum then it really wont need that big a reserve 4 the pilots, those flyin UAE planes some of them might already have returned and can form a nucleus of training staff so u dont need all that familiarization training apart from EW syatems which doesnt require much of training time if the pilots are already familiar with the machine , even the ones flyin A n B versions would daefinitely be aware of the aerodynamics of F-16 so conversion to block 60 dshouldnt be all that difficult , plus youve got to see in PAf only the best get to fly the F-16s so these pilots are already the cream of the larger lot n shouldnt require that much training!!!!