Pakistan Air Force [PAF] News and Discussions

[BilalK]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

According to the latest AFM, the PAF is interested in several AEW&C systems (Erieye, Hawkeye, and Wedgetail), 2 F-16s to arrive in December, new built F-16 deliveries to start in 2-3 years.

Whats interesting is that PAF is interested in the QEAF Mirage 2000-5s, and Qatar is willing to sell. Could this series of fighter aircraft be our 3rd fighter?

 

[SABRE]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

I thought pakistan had lost at least 2 or 3 F16's during Afghan conflict. That would leave around 37 F16's.

Pakistan in the past had apparently 32 operational F16's. That leaves 5 in storage.

PAF lost only 1 F-16 in Afghan war & that was in a friendly fire. The one that went non operational were because of break downs in some parts of the AirCraft.

lols 2-3 F-16s shot down by Afghans, they dint have any good weapon to bring an F-16 down. Side Winders were too much for them to handle besides they were flying fighter like su-23.

If the stored F16's had structural problems and China has asisted in rectifying these problems could China have provided F10 metal to solve these problems. F16's aren't made out of titanium alloy I don't think?

AFAIK only two F-16 had external damage on the body rest had internal break downs. I dont think China provided any thing to Pak or Pak provided any thing to china.

The F22 is fully titanium isn't it?

No F-22 is made up of combinition of Carbon Fiber & titanum. Carbon fiber has been used extensively since its lighter.

 

[SABRE]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Whats interesting is that PAF is interested in the QEAF Mirage 2000-5s, and Qatar is willing to sell. Could this series of fighter aircraft be our 3rd fighter?

Nops...Qatar is selling on 12 of its Mirages. PAF's interest would be to upgrade them either in Mirage2000D modification & give it to bomber sqdns (they fly A-5s) or Modify them to maritime role.

 

[aaaditya]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Nops...Qatar is selling on 12 of its Mirages. PAF's interest would be to upgrade them either in Mirage2000D modification & give it to bomber sqdns (they fly A-5s) or Modify them to maritime role.

but will pakistan pay 75million dollars per aircraft(that was the price quoted) and also purchasing just 12 will be useless since pakistan will have maintainence and spares problem,this deal would have a value only of pakistan decides to acquire additional mirage2000-5's from france as their 3rd frontline combat aircraft.otherwise i dont think just 12 aircrafts would be of any use to pakistan.:coffee

 

[P.A.F]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

http://www.dawn.com/2005/09/16/nat5.htm

PAF tests high-tech weaponry

JHELUM, Sept 15: The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) tested samples of high-tech weaponry in its arsenal as it demonstrated live ammunition firing on Thursday as part of the High-Mark-05 exercise at the Tilla Range near here. The live demonstration of missiles and bombs by different combat aircraft included 60 sorties of Mirage, F-7 and A-5 aircraft and Cobra helicopters. Army units coordinated the ground attack with heavy artillery fire as PAF jets completed the assigned missions.

As part of the Joint Air Attack Team Mission, formations of Cobra helicopters demonstrated the primary and secondary destructive powers of all weather friendly TOW missiles which have the capability to destroy tanks and penetrate more than 30 inches of armour.

The live ammunition firing by the PAF continued for more than six hours as the combat aircraft flying from different air bases completed various missions, including level bombings and bursts of cannon fire from aircraft. The operation was viewed by media.

Later, the Assistant Chief of Air Staff, Air Commodore Junaid Amin, told journalists that the PAF had used laser-guided precision weapons, Mark 82 bombs and anti-runway bombs and other ammunition during the first stage of Exercise High Mark-05. He said 60 to 70 combat aircraft were being used in a single raid during the exercise and added the videos of the missions flown during the exercise would be analysed to identify the strengths and weaknesses.

Senior officers told this correspondent that 2000-pound bombs were used during the exercise at Tilla Range earlier on Wednesday.

They added the bombs were used in air operations to attain maximum blast and explosive effects and over 12,000 such bombs were used during Desert Storm by US Air Force F-15s and F-16s.

The bombs could be used against a wide variety of targets, including artillery, trucks, bunkers, Scud missiles, surface-to-air missile sites, anti-aircraft artillery sites, early warning radars and supply points, said an officer.

Meanwhile, a press release issued by the Air Headquarters said the Chief of Air Staff,

Air Chief Marshal Kaleem Saadat, visited two forward operational bases of the PAF to inspect the operations of ongoing exercise.

Exercise High Mark-5 is being conducted after a gap of 10 years and will continue for four weeks.

 

[BilalK]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Qatar is selling the infastructure for the 12 aircraft, even if we end up paying like 700mn-1bn USD for them, we get the equipment, training, and weapons in that price. Plus, the PAF would be able to get more Mirage 2000-5Mk2s for a relatively lower cost if it gets the Qatari ones, given that the infastructure, training, etc would be available.

 

[Oqaab]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

but will pakistan pay 75million dollars per aircraft(that was the price quoted) and also purchasing just 12 will be useless since pakistan will have maintainence and spares problem,this deal would have a value only of pakistan decides to acquire additional mirage2000-5's from france as their 3rd frontline combat aircraft.otherwise i dont think just 12 aircrafts would be of any use to pakistan.:coffee

Qatari Mirages wont cost us that much (link ??) because those are used mirages and might cost less then 60 million.

The problem of spare parts is with F-16 and not with Mirages. France is already willing to give us tech (and earn $$).

Mirage 2000-5 will join the naval fleet of Mirage Vs and can stand against Indian MiG-29s and others. I dont think its a bad deal.

On the other hand, navy will still need a maneuverable fighter for dogfighting missions against Harriars.

 

[aaaditya]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Qatari Mirages wont cost us that much (link ??) because those are used mirages and might cost less then 60 million.

The problem of spare parts is with F-16 and not with Mirages. France is already willing to give us tech (and earn $$).

Mirage 2000-5 will join the naval fleet of Mirage Vs and can stand against Indian MiG-29s and others. I dont think its a bad deal.

On the other hand, navy will still need a maneuverable fighter for dogfighting missions against Harriars.

that was what they asked india and that is the reason why india backed of the deal,the actual mirage 2000-5 purchased from france would i believe cost around 60million dollars each including all the weapons and training,so 75 million dollars is a bit too much.:coffee

 

[Hussain]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

It would be a good idea to use Mirage 2000's in the naval strike role. The Orions have no real maritime escorts at present.

 

[SABRE]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

It would be a good idea to use Mirage 2000's in the naval strike role. The Orions have no real maritime escorts at present.

There are mirage-5s who perform maritime role & escort P3C Orions.

 

[kashifshahzad]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Its useless to test bombs and other A2G missiles.Qorld is moving away from dogfights PAF only have lesser ranged BVR missiles but IAF's Bisons have latest radars and weaponery.When this SD-10 will come intoproduction and when PAF fighter aircrafts will be equiped with them.
SABRE i want to ask that if those old PAF's F-16s are getting MLUed then would they get the AAMRAM or other types of BVR missiles ( suppose SD-10 ) if only the upgradation is done then this is useless

 

[Hussain]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

There are mirage-5s who perform maritime role & escort P3C Orions.

They have really not got the range or endurance of the Mirage 2005.

 

[aaaditya]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

They have really not got the range or endurance of the Mirage 2005.

it makes no sense to acquire just 12 m2000-5's from qatar (second hand) and at such exhorbitant prices,alternatively mirage5 can be upgraded and airborne refuelling capability acquired.
however if paf decides to purchase a large number of mirge2000-5's as one of its frontline fighters ,then it would make sense to acquire the qatari mirage2000-5's for maritime strike purpose,becuase then all the facilities would be available to support the aircrafts.:coffee

 

[BilalK]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

True, it only makes sence to spend 700mn-1bn USD for 12 used planes if you're going to expand on that fleet. If the PAF got the 12 planes, the PAF would learn how to operate it, maintain it, etc, and it would be able to get more from France for a relatively lower cost, but not cheaply. In order to make the most of the money spent on Qatari Mirages, the PAF should get atleast 20 more Mirage 2000-5Mk2s from France.

However I doubt it, its simply too much, and American pressure may kick in.

 

[Hussain]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

What spares and equipment are they going to get with the planes. Will engines also be included in the deal? If its mostly for the planes then Pakistan is paying , what, in excess of 70 million dollars per plane if the deal is worth more than a billion dollars?

 

[Hussain]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Has the deal gone through?

 

[fieldmarshal]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Its useless to test bombs and other A2G missiles.Qorld is moving away from dogfights PAF only have lesser ranged BVR missiles but IAF's Bisons have latest radars and weaponery.When this SD-10 will come intoproduction and when PAF fighter aircrafts will be equiped with them.

The following example that i am about to give hold relivance to this discusion


when the f-4 phantom was developed the usaf thought that as the air to air missles have become advanced and potent so their is no need for a cannon on the said ac. As a result when the phantom was deployed during the viatnam war the early version had no guns/cannon. This very soon proved to be a big mistake and the result was numerious downed ac in dog fights with the north vitnamese.
Similarly when jet enginne ac came on the scene to replace prop ac, it was said that the days of dog fighting are over due to the increased speed of ac.

If their is research goin onto improve the offensive punch of fighter ac around the world dont u think their is research goin on at the same time to improve the defensive capabilities of ac.
every time somthing new comes along there is a tedency to belittle/brush aside past practises as outdate and out moded. When the reality is that these new inovations and tech only add to the old and work best when used in partenship with the old.

and dont u recon that the ppl running the show in the PAF who have given their lives to this profession know a little better than all the arm chair warriors like me n u i think they desever a little benefit of the doubt.

 

[kashifshahzad]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

The following example that i am about to give hold relivance to this discusion


when the f-4 phantom was developed the usaf thought that as the air to air missles have become advanced and potent so their is no need for a cannon on the said ac. As a result when the phantom was deployed during the viatnam war the early version had no guns/cannon. This very soon proved to be a big mistake and the result was numerious downed ac in dog fights with the north vitnamese.
Similarly when jet enginne ac came on the scene to replace prop ac, it was said that the days of dog fighting are over due to the increased speed of ac.

If their is research goin onto improve the offensive punch of fighter ac around the world dont u think their is research goin on at the same time to improve the defensive capabilities of ac.
every time somthing new comes along there is a tedency to belittle/brush aside past practises as outdate and out moded. When the reality is that these new inovations and tech only add to the old and work best when used in partenship with the old.

and dont u recon that the ppl running the show in the PAF who have given their lives to this profession know a little better than all the arm chair warriors like me n u i think they desever a little benefit of the doubt.

Ok its not useless but PAF should have single BVR AAM type Indian ACs have longer ranged BVR missiles then that of an AAMRAM if a PAF fighter goes to attack indian ( suppoese airport or other militery target then there will be one Su-30MKI which will take off and can make our 7-8 F-16s down simply and if they will have BVR missiles then this can be one to one battle i dont think there will be chances of a dogfight but it can happen when there will be a lot of ACs

 

[aaaditya]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

What spares and equipment are they going to get with the planes. Will engines also be included in the deal? If its mostly for the planes then Pakistan is paying , what, in excess of 70 million dollars per plane if the deal is worth more than a billion dollars?

off course the aircrafts will be with engines,the deal covers aircrafts,weapons and all the associated infrastructure excluding training.
even if cost for all that were to be taken out it will still come to around 60million dollars per plane ,that is a bit high for a second hand aircraft,even though according to qatar they still have 80% of their life left.
according to a magazine called asian aviation date 1999 ,pakistan was very much interested in acquiring mirage2000-5 from france ,france quoted 45million dollars per plane and the deal fell off(it was claimed to be due to pakistani army's opposistion,since pakistani army believed that there would be no funds left for it's own acquisitions). :coffee

 

[P.A.F]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

What spares and equipment are they going to get with the planes. Will engines also be included in the deal? If its mostly for the planes then Pakistan is paying , what, in excess of 70 million dollars per plane if the deal is worth more than a billion dollars?

Basically everything Qatar has to do with the mirage 2000.