only if ur facin a nuke opponent. Check the south africans out. They had nukes but no nuclear opponents. they planned to use the nukes for genocide to keep the white government intact.gf0012 said:
PAF IN 2015
- Thread starter jastreb
- Start date
Hmmm, not really. The principle reason for STh Africas foray into nukes was that they felt threatened by an increasingly communist threat from all quarters (well, from 3 of them at least). The Sth Africans were quite paranoid about their own version of the domino theory for a number of historical reasons.corsair7772 said:
That too and a number of other reasons as well which includes the genocide theory. :idea2
Bilal_Khan
New Member
Re: 2015 and "Pakistan Air Force"
I think this is a better figure by 2015,
I think this is a better figure by 2015,
- 100 JAS-39E/F (4bn US Dollars)
- 200 JF-17 (3bn US Dollars)
- 50 F-16A/B MLU (Block-50) (US Aid + 500mn US Dollars for MLU)
- 50 F-7PG
Bilals figure is highly accurate along with sum minor amendments:
100 JAS-39
40 J-10s
250 JF-17s
100 JAS-39
40 J-10s
250 JF-17s
i know. Were never gonna get it. Adsh is right man. Forget the JAS-39 man. Evn the huge time limit isnt gonna change the diplomatic situation. Were obviously going to be reduced to buying Su-27s from Poland or ukraine or get a multitude of Chinese aircraft which wudnt be so bad anyway like:
60 J-10s
65 J-11s
140 Jf-17s
80 J-7s(BVR)
65 JH-7
60 J-10s
65 J-11s
140 Jf-17s
80 J-7s(BVR)
65 JH-7
Re: 2015 and "Pakistan Air Force"
Hey its not a matter of not wanting it, but a matter of how do they get it and what do they use it for!! and how would they ever fund its logistical needs. the AC is a good weapon but its not particle for PAF, needs . F-16 isnt wanted becasue they are a miracle on the face of this planet but rather because PAF has spent alot training and developing Repair techniques for its engine overhauls and various other bits. PAF Pilots are trained on the jet, so allot has gone into it, SU27 is not logical for PAF they can't even get them!! were takeing about a typical case of scarcity here.
Hey its not a matter of not wanting it, but a matter of how do they get it and what do they use it for!! and how would they ever fund its logistical needs. the AC is a good weapon but its not particle for PAF, needs . F-16 isnt wanted becasue they are a miracle on the face of this planet but rather because PAF has spent alot training and developing Repair techniques for its engine overhauls and various other bits. PAF Pilots are trained on the jet, so allot has gone into it, SU27 is not logical for PAF they can't even get them!! were takeing about a typical case of scarcity here.
darklegent
New Member
Re: 2015 and "Pakistan Air Force"
To what I see the future as cystal clear is the FC-1/Jf-17. Why would the F-16 be required if the Fc-1/Jf-17 is considered by many Pakistani and Chinese technocrates as equal in performance to the F-16A and in some cases better then the MLU version.
There would be anywhere between 140-180 (out of the present requirement of 200 ac) fc-1 flying by 2015.
The Rafale is possible but the cost is close to the $60+ million per fighter and if you were add the infrastructure to maintain it...... man u crazy. The best bet would be the M2K which wud cost to be cheaper coz of the existing facility to maintain the Mirages. Thou the aircrafts are different but there are a lot of maintance processes that can be cross linked. But what would actually matter is that the M2k-5 would be nearly outdated by 2015 and on the way out from with the French airforce.
That leaves us with the J-10. I think that the Fc-1 can do all the sorties that the J-10 could ever do. It makes no sence to have two types of aircrafts to do the same work.
The Su-27 or any russian aircraft procured from ukraine would never be able to compare to the Indian threat as the Su-30Mki is a class apart from the basic ukrainian Su-27. To cut a diamond all that one requires is a diamond all that comes to my mind is the F-22 (lol thats just a dream buddies) but all that would match this threat would be the Rafale.
If I were asked to predict then
200 Fc-1 (about $5 billion with cost of inflation)
60 Rafale (about $4 billion with infrastructure)
60 Mirage Rose replaced by USED Mirage2000 and upgraded versions (about $1 billion....main for Second line formations)
50 Mirage III/5 (all the remaining airframes with any life left on them. The mirage III/5 entered service I guess in the 1960's-70's)
60 J-7 (Get rid of all those early crap Mig-19 chinese copies J-6 by 2015.)
40 Q-5 (need a replacement but no idea wat it will be and what will it cost)
24 F-16 (from todays existing availible aircraft)
2 AEW + 2 Awac (about $1 billion)
3 Air to air refuelers built around smaller jets like the emb-145 ( Pakistan does not have depth as India does and would not have thier aircraft fly on very long mission from within Pakistani landmass.
As with respect with transporters the C-130 will do the job. Any ways the Americans are giving them cheap after upgrades.
I will not speculate on the trainer aircraft the pakistani airfleet would have as these would mainly be secondline formation.
To what I see the future as cystal clear is the FC-1/Jf-17. Why would the F-16 be required if the Fc-1/Jf-17 is considered by many Pakistani and Chinese technocrates as equal in performance to the F-16A and in some cases better then the MLU version.
There would be anywhere between 140-180 (out of the present requirement of 200 ac) fc-1 flying by 2015.
The Rafale is possible but the cost is close to the $60+ million per fighter and if you were add the infrastructure to maintain it...... man u crazy. The best bet would be the M2K which wud cost to be cheaper coz of the existing facility to maintain the Mirages. Thou the aircrafts are different but there are a lot of maintance processes that can be cross linked. But what would actually matter is that the M2k-5 would be nearly outdated by 2015 and on the way out from with the French airforce.
That leaves us with the J-10. I think that the Fc-1 can do all the sorties that the J-10 could ever do. It makes no sence to have two types of aircrafts to do the same work.
The Su-27 or any russian aircraft procured from ukraine would never be able to compare to the Indian threat as the Su-30Mki is a class apart from the basic ukrainian Su-27. To cut a diamond all that one requires is a diamond all that comes to my mind is the F-22 (lol thats just a dream buddies) but all that would match this threat would be the Rafale.
If I were asked to predict then
200 Fc-1 (about $5 billion with cost of inflation)
60 Rafale (about $4 billion with infrastructure)
60 Mirage Rose replaced by USED Mirage2000 and upgraded versions (about $1 billion....main for Second line formations)
50 Mirage III/5 (all the remaining airframes with any life left on them. The mirage III/5 entered service I guess in the 1960's-70's)
60 J-7 (Get rid of all those early crap Mig-19 chinese copies J-6 by 2015.)
40 Q-5 (need a replacement but no idea wat it will be and what will it cost)
24 F-16 (from todays existing availible aircraft)
2 AEW + 2 Awac (about $1 billion)
3 Air to air refuelers built around smaller jets like the emb-145 ( Pakistan does not have depth as India does and would not have thier aircraft fly on very long mission from within Pakistani landmass.
As with respect with transporters the C-130 will do the job. Any ways the Americans are giving them cheap after upgrades.
I will not speculate on the trainer aircraft the pakistani airfleet would have as these would mainly be secondline formation.
mysterious
New Member
Re: 2015 and "Pakistan Air Force"
Man! Spare the PAF technicians and logistic operators with the "seven" different types of aircrafts that you want them to operate!! Best is to operate a 'maximum' of 4 types of aircraft for a country like Pakistan. Seven types of different stuff in the inventory can be pretty dangerous! Oh, and JF-17 is not as good as F-16A/B (for a fact)!! The J-10 is regarded to be at par with the F-16C, but certainly not the JF-17 (as its designed to be a low-tech, bulk fighter which is not going to be used as a frontline fighter)!! :smokingc:
Man! Spare the PAF technicians and logistic operators with the "seven" different types of aircrafts that you want them to operate!! Best is to operate a 'maximum' of 4 types of aircraft for a country like Pakistan. Seven types of different stuff in the inventory can be pretty dangerous! Oh, and JF-17 is not as good as F-16A/B (for a fact)!! The J-10 is regarded to be at par with the F-16C, but certainly not the JF-17 (as its designed to be a low-tech, bulk fighter which is not going to be used as a frontline fighter)!! :smokingc:
Re: 2015 and "Pakistan Air Force"
i would say the JF-17 is not as good as the F-16 A/B MLU but it might have some Advantages over the F-16A/B block 15, thats a fact those Bird, the Falcons are one hell of a Ride!! India has never shot one in so many engagements, they only have recently been able to lock on to one. i still think F-16 is a viable option if Pak Plays its cards out Right, This is Why i don't like the MK2 2005 they are old and the french wan't PAF to buy them so they can dump some stuff on them!! the INdian have fallen for that trick. (but realy its a Good jet) but i would put my money on the F-16 Block 60. 0r 50, Pak has done alot for the US in the Past 2-3 yeah you would expect some help!!
i would say the JF-17 is not as good as the F-16 A/B MLU but it might have some Advantages over the F-16A/B block 15, thats a fact those Bird, the Falcons are one hell of a Ride!! India has never shot one in so many engagements, they only have recently been able to lock on to one. i still think F-16 is a viable option if Pak Plays its cards out Right, This is Why i don't like the MK2 2005 they are old and the french wan't PAF to buy them so they can dump some stuff on them!! the INdian have fallen for that trick. (but realy its a Good jet) but i would put my money on the F-16 Block 60. 0r 50, Pak has done alot for the US in the Past 2-3 yeah you would expect some help!!
I really think the JF-17 is more in the M-F1 and F-4e class in its "raw" form but in the F-16 class with additonal avionics and upgrades.
so does the PAF realisticly think they will be able to "KICK" Indian Air Force ass in 2015.........erm i wonder what planes the indians will have by then--- LCA (4.5 generation), MCA (5 generation), S-37 (5 generation)
when we compare these birds to thoses around the world:
LCA = J-10
MCA = EUROFIGHTER/
S-37 = F/A 22
BY THE WAY CHAPS IN MY OPINION I THINK THE S-37 WILL BE BETTER THEN THE F/A 22
when we compare these birds to thoses around the world:
LCA = J-10
MCA = EUROFIGHTER/
S-37 = F/A 22
BY THE WAY CHAPS IN MY OPINION I THINK THE S-37 WILL BE BETTER THEN THE F/A 22
The S-37 was a CTD and is an earlier generation platform. It's not a direct comparison. In addition the S-37 as such will never see production as some of it's design elements are already superceded. The Russians themselves acknowledge the CTD status.PJ-10 BrahMos said:
mysterious
New Member
LCA = J-10??? MCA = Eurofighter??? S-37 = F/A-22??? Man! Where do these people get their info from? Primary school books or something? I seriously get ticked off when people make such 'tall' claims, [Mod edit: Please give some respect to get some.]PJ-10 BrahMos said: