Roger Smith
New Member
It is your words against mine!!! :smokingc:mysterious said:
Mirage-2000-5 for India
- Thread starter Panzer
- Start date
Roger Smith
New Member
You have a valid point. Let us put this matter to rest now. :smokingc:gf0012 said:
Thanks.
The Watcher
New Member
Israel would not allow its f16i to be given to any other country. india could get f16 but pakistan would object and the way things are right now with iraq and war on terror i think its more than likely that US will say no to india's request.
Roger Smith
New Member
Israel has provided Phalcon AWACs to India and would be glad to pass on F-16I technology to Indian Air Force enable Israeli Air Force to have a common platform for excercises.The Watcher said:
darklegent
New Member
:rotfl :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl
Why on earth are you people fooling urselves to fall into the trap of the double speaking Indian Goverment.
Let me explain LOGICALLY.
Has any one seen into the requirement of the normal take of weight of the required fighter jet?
Its about 25,000 Kgs
http://us.rediff.com/news/2004/feb/29iaf.htm
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20040301/main7.htm
The Migs29, F-16 nor the Mirage 2000/x take of with that kind of loads. The maximum take offload is about 18,000kgs at the most.
Can anyone guess the take of weight of the french Rafale or the Eurofighter ?
I do know the takeoff weights are closer to the Indian Airforce requirement.
DID U?
Secondly never has the Indian airforce intoduced fighter jets into their fleet which are on their way out of the provider country. They introduce the latest aircrafts.
Its me explain again with respect to the last 20 years of purchases:
Mig 29's Indian date of entry 1984/85 as close as the then soviets introduction of the same.
Mirage 2000 entered the French airforce in1983/84 and entered the Indian airfoce at nearly the same time.
The Jaguar was purchase in 1978/79 when it was introduced in French and British Ariforce in 1972/73.
As of the Mig 27 which is the "ML' derivative of the original vintage design, it was introduced into the fleet in 1986 where as the development of the ML version was completed in 1982/83.
As of the Su-30 well information is availible and no comments on this jet.
Never has the Indian Goverment purchase a fighter jet which is 20 years old and when the user country airforce is about to replace them in the near future.(Russia does not build the Mig29 for their airforce the american are putting their money on the F-35 and the French have already started to replace/phazeout their Mirages units.
:rotfl :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl
I am sorry but I read between the lines hahahahahahah.
Why on earth are you people fooling urselves to fall into the trap of the double speaking Indian Goverment.
Let me explain LOGICALLY.
Has any one seen into the requirement of the normal take of weight of the required fighter jet?
Its about 25,000 Kgs
http://us.rediff.com/news/2004/feb/29iaf.htm
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20040301/main7.htm
The Migs29, F-16 nor the Mirage 2000/x take of with that kind of loads. The maximum take offload is about 18,000kgs at the most.
Can anyone guess the take of weight of the french Rafale or the Eurofighter ?
I do know the takeoff weights are closer to the Indian Airforce requirement.
DID U?
Secondly never has the Indian airforce intoduced fighter jets into their fleet which are on their way out of the provider country. They introduce the latest aircrafts.
Its me explain again with respect to the last 20 years of purchases:
Mig 29's Indian date of entry 1984/85 as close as the then soviets introduction of the same.
Mirage 2000 entered the French airforce in1983/84 and entered the Indian airfoce at nearly the same time.
The Jaguar was purchase in 1978/79 when it was introduced in French and British Ariforce in 1972/73.
As of the Mig 27 which is the "ML' derivative of the original vintage design, it was introduced into the fleet in 1986 where as the development of the ML version was completed in 1982/83.
As of the Su-30 well information is availible and no comments on this jet.
Never has the Indian Goverment purchase a fighter jet which is 20 years old and when the user country airforce is about to replace them in the near future.(Russia does not build the Mig29 for their airforce the american are putting their money on the F-35 and the French have already started to replace/phazeout their Mirages units.
:rotfl :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl
I am sorry but I read between the lines hahahahahahah.
Roger Smith
New Member
darklegent said:
Darklegent............What is your point? :?
Roger Smith
New Member
You can not compare Pakistan with India. India GDP per captia purchasing power is the third largest in the world at $3 trillion after USA and China. With international economic interlink the American needs India to counter-balance China., like the American needs Israel to counter-balance power in Middle East for oil (energy) trade.Indus said:
mysterious
New Member
LOL Roger. I dont think you understood what Indus was saying! He wasn't comparing anyone! All he said was Americans cheated Pakistan on its purchases of F-16s so who knows they may once again show their colors. It doesnt matter if its India they're dealing with or any other country. Anything wierd happens, Americans change their color like a chameleon!
dabrownguy
New Member
F-16 aren't out of date! America is going to stop making them but they will not stop making parts for F-16c/d for another 2 decades. Don't underestamate the fighting falcon. With ToT f-16 is a real good deal because missile packages will probabily be with the deal. Isreal will defenitly help India on customizing the F-16. Isreal is always willing to share tech with India for fiar amount of money, its uncle sam that puts limits. Dassault must offer a lot better deal to India other wise your looking at 125 f-16c/d! These could be delievered from the states with ease in 1-7 years tops.
The Mirage is an excellent platform. However, only partial focus should be on the plane. There are a host of other issues, load out, range, sortie rate, pilot capability etc...LCA_Tejas said:
I would put a mirage with a decent fire control system, weaps load out and with a good pilot against a Mig29 flown by an average pilot anyday of the week.
The Watcher
New Member
By the end of the day training, experience and eye of the person flying the jet is what really matters. If you give a ferrari to a 14 year old kid who just got his learners permit, chances are he will reck it. But if you give the same car to a 40 year old experienced person, chances are he wil take care of it and cut through traffic alot better and still keep the car safe. we can use the same analogy for the pilots who may have to fly mirages against migs/f16s...
darklegent
New Member
Roger read in bettween the lines.
My point stands that the Staff requirement is for a Fighterjet with a maximum take off weight of 25,000kgs.
The only aircrafts that fit into this category are
a)Rafale with 24,500kgs
b)Eurofighter with 23,000kgs
c)the still to be developed Su35 a lighter verion of the basic su27.
d)the most unlikely F-35 with 25,000kgs.
All these fit in with their maximum takeoff weight.
As India is planning to purchase the French planes it only seems logical that its the Rafale (which can also be nuclear wired) then the Mirage 2000/x.
My point stands that the Staff requirement is for a Fighterjet with a maximum take off weight of 25,000kgs.
The only aircrafts that fit into this category are
a)Rafale with 24,500kgs
b)Eurofighter with 23,000kgs
c)the still to be developed Su35 a lighter verion of the basic su27.
d)the most unlikely F-35 with 25,000kgs.
All these fit in with their maximum takeoff weight.
As India is planning to purchase the French planes it only seems logical that its the Rafale (which can also be nuclear wired) then the Mirage 2000/x.
Sukhoi are not a contender, AFAIK sukhoi have been directed by the RussGov to assist Mikoyan in finessing a '29 variation.darklegent said:
It's highly unlikely that the 35 will be an option for India for a number of reasons.
darklegent
New Member
That is exactly the case. The Eurofighter is too expensive by any standards for its performance to cost but the Rafale....... well thats another story.
I did post a follow on post but it did not show up.
I mentioned that the time lag between availiblity of the still to developed Su35 or the F-35 is atleast 3 to 4 years where as the off the shelf staff requirement of the IAF is in the near future. The Eurofighter will first have to be produced in enough numbers to sustain the requirement of the participating countries which is another 3 years atleast this only leaves the Rafale
:arrow: which also fulfill the 25,000kgs maximum takeoff weight in a 10 ton(10,000 kgs) class fighter jet requirement.
:arrow: for which the Indian goverment is also negotiating.
I did post a follow on post but it did not show up.
I mentioned that the time lag between availiblity of the still to developed Su35 or the F-35 is atleast 3 to 4 years where as the off the shelf staff requirement of the IAF is in the near future. The Eurofighter will first have to be produced in enough numbers to sustain the requirement of the participating countries which is another 3 years atleast this only leaves the Rafale
:arrow: which also fulfill the 25,000kgs maximum takeoff weight in a 10 ton(10,000 kgs) class fighter jet requirement.
:arrow: for which the Indian goverment is also negotiating.
The Watcher
New Member
India air force says to rely less on Western jets
http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/article_1403.shtml
SINGAPORE (Reuters) - India's air force will phase out many of its Western-made fighter jets and rely more on indigenous planes such as its planned "Tejas", a light combat aircraft, the nation's air force chief said on Wednesday.
I guess its a nO nO to the F-16s. :lol
http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/article_1403.shtml
SINGAPORE (Reuters) - India's air force will phase out many of its Western-made fighter jets and rely more on indigenous planes such as its planned "Tejas", a light combat aircraft, the nation's air force chief said on Wednesday.
I guess its a nO nO to the F-16s. :lol
This will be interesting to see, Both France and the US have offered technology transfers. France has allegedly offered to shift the 2000 production line in toto to India as well as LR missile technology. The US was prepared to offer so F-16 capability.The Watcher said:
The single engined version of the mig-29 seems to be too far out of the development cycle, but sukhoi have been directed to offer mikoyan support to see if it can be accelerated.
India does need to reduce a 4 platform force to 2 to counter logistics issues, but they had also been considering splitting their nationality mix due to vulnerability issues (eg Russians selling to both India and China)
I think this will be one of those issues that is better served by waiting to see the announcement on final selection rather than all the announcements that will be dribbling out beforehand.
I would still bet money on Mirages. Last time I looked at an atlas, France was decidedly "western".
The Tejas is still 3 years away, and there is no way that India can survive without an interim fighter till 2008-2009. Russia is unable to provide 100-200 aircraft for that demand unless they start production fairly soon.
This simple press statement raises more questions than provides answers.
darklegent
New Member
So gf what ur point? I mean what jet is it going to be then?