There is no doubt that India does have an edge in airforce over Pakistan but believe me its not easy to finish PAF in case of war.Pakistan can still use its present strength with some brains and can tackle the current IAF strength effectively but certainly they wont be able to do deep strikes inside india in case of war but again nothing to worry missiles can do this work and PAF can easily provide safe sky over ground troops.But do need to pay attention to this field as IAF is certaily not a joke and not bad.
Mirage-2000-5 for India
- Thread starter Panzer
- Start date
Settle down everyone - get back to having constructive discussions on the subject matter.
Revival_786
New Member
Roger Smith, that's not true... F-16s can take on Mirage 2000-5 even though they are older 
Roger Smith
New Member
I agree with you F-16s has a lot of variation, the latest F-16I is the best with latest technology, but you can not say for F-16A/B with PAF, which is 20 years old technology.Revival_786 said:Roger Smith, that's not true... F-16s can take on Mirage 2000-5 even though they are older
Read this article from Pakistani news media.
"Israel to get 100 F-16I fighter jets"
RAMON AIR BASE, Feb 19: The Israeli air force on Thursday took delivery of the first two of more than 100 US-built F-16I jets, a new generation of warplane which will soon make up the backbone of Israel's fleet.
http://www.dawn.com/2004/02/20/top13.htm
Revival, please note;
F-16I is a new generation fighter jet with Israeli Air Force.
F-16A/B are 20 years old fighter jets with PAF, Belgium and other European air forces are phasing out these fighter jets.
The F-16A/B is actually considered to be the best dogfighter out of all the F-16 variants - it's primary role was that of a knife/street fighter..... that's not true... F-16s can take on Mirage 2000-5 even though they are older
In a number of NATO comps, F-16A/B's regularly bested Mirages
There are other variables apart from the fighter platform to consider as well.
The altitude of the engagement, BVR/WVR issues, terrain, training etc..
Yes, The mirage 2000-5 is technically superior to F-16 and MiG-29 but F-16A/B outmaneuveres Mirage in a dogfight. Su-30MKI is the only aircraft I see as a good fighter in IAF. The rest are all for supersonic speeds, such as mirages, LCA, MiG-25.Roger Smith said:
And BTW, the F-7s are more maneuverable then Mirage 2000-5.
Stop repeating one statement again and again. We all know that PAF F-16s are 20 years old. In CIC, F-16 can defeat Mirage 2000-5. The F-16I which U mentioned is less maneuverable then F-16A coz of its conformal fuel tanks.
The F-16I was designed to Israeli requirements. It's not that appropriate to try and compare it to other F-16's
If anything you should look at the latest Block 60. But the Bl-60 is not as capable a dogfighter as the early A/B's
The Mirages are high speed sprinters and bomb trucks, they aren't really comparable as a dogfighter either.
In an air doctrine that was based on a high lo mix, the Mirage would fulfill the lo, the SU-27's a high.
Similarly the F-16's are the high element in a pakistani hi-lo mix ORBAT
If anything you should look at the latest Block 60. But the Bl-60 is not as capable a dogfighter as the early A/B's
The Mirages are high speed sprinters and bomb trucks, they aren't really comparable as a dogfighter either.
In an air doctrine that was based on a high lo mix, the Mirage would fulfill the lo, the SU-27's a high.
Similarly the F-16's are the high element in a pakistani hi-lo mix ORBAT
Roger Smith
New Member
What areal dogfight you are talking? :?Oqaab said:
Are you living in 1945 or 1960 or 1970? :?
We are living in 2004 and heat seeking missiles can be locked on a target and fired at a distance from 50 miles.
What dogfight are you talking? :?
Is it toy plane? :?
:canada
I think you should take the Mig- 29 lightly out to get an F-16 a/b. This will be a great fight and it is very difficult to who would win.Oqaab said:Yes, The mirage 2000-5 is technically superior to F-16 and MiG-29 but F-16A/B outmaneuveres Mirage in a dogfight. Su-30MKI is the only aircraft I see as a good fighter in IAF. The rest are all for supersonic speeds, such as mirages, LCA, MiG-25.Roger Smith said:
And BTW, the F-7s are more maneuverable then Mirage 2000-5.
Stop repeating one statement again and again. We all know that PAF F-16s are 20 years old. In CIC, F-16 can defeat Mirage 2000-5. The F-16I which U mentioned is less maneuverable then F-16A coz of its conformal fuel tanks.
viveksac said:Oqaab said:Yes, The mirage 2000-5 is technically superior to F-16 and MiG-29 but F-16A/B outmaneuveres Mirage in a dogfight. Su-30MKI is the only aircraft I see as a good fighter in IAF. The rest are all for supersonic speeds, such as mirages, LCA, MiG-25.Roger Smith said:
And BTW, the F-7s are more maneuverable then Mirage 2000-5.
Stop repeating one statement again and again. We all know that PAF F-16s are 20 years old. In CIC, F-16 can defeat Mirage 2000-5. The F-16I which U mentioned is less maneuverable then F-16A coz of its conformal fuel tanks.
I dont think you should take the Mig- 29 lightly out to get an F-16 a/b. This will be a great fight and it is very difficult to point that who would win.
Sorry
How long do u think itll take 4 this fleet 2 become available and operational 4 india? :help
[ Admin Edit: No need to get too personal ]Roger Smith said:What areal dogfight you are talking? :?
Are you living in 1945 or 1960 or 1970? :?
We are living in 2004 and heat seeking missiles can be locked on a target and fired at a distance from 50 miles.
What dogfight are you talking? :?
Is it toy plane? :?
:canada
Do U know the meaning for "Dogfight". I which grade are U studing ?
JF-17 has MiG-33 intercepting capabilities and it will probably be used for airdefence. And U need good dogfighters for Ur defence. Have a look at the F-16. More then 4000 have been built. As GF said, it was the best dogfighter of its time.
And if U are talking about BVR capability then U should know that JF-17 will be using SD-10 BVR missiles which are more capable then Ur R-77.
I m not taking MiG-29s lightly. Its a fact, Mirage 2000-5 are technically superior to MiG-29s. And when F-16 can defete Mirage 2000-5, then it can also defete MiG-29s.
your right that the Mirage - 2000 - 5 are technically superrior to Mig - 29s.Oqaab said:My Child,Roger Smith said:What areal dogfight you are talking? :?
Are you living in 1945 or 1960 or 1970? :?
We are living in 2004 and heat seeking missiles can be locked on a target and fired at a distance from 50 miles.
What dogfight are you talking? :?
Is it toy plane? :?
:canada
Do U know the meaning for "Dogfight". I which grade are U studing ?
JF-17 has MiG-33 intercepting capabilities and it will probably be used for airdefence. And U need good dogfighters for Ur defence. Have a look at the F-16. More then 4000 have been built. As GF said, it was the best dogfighter of its time.
And if U are talking about BVR capability then U should know that JF-17 will be using SD-10 BVR missiles which are more capable then Ur R-77.
I m not taking MiG-29s lightly. Its a fact, Mirage 2000-5 are technically superior to MiG-29s. And when F-16 can defete Mirage 2000-5, then it can also defete MiG-29s.
But if you take an upgraded Mig-29 like the Mig-29 SMT or the one with Isrealli avionic configeration. Then this is a comparision that is worth watching.
viveksac said:
There is an article in the TImes of India paper today saying Indian defence officials are in "hectic" discussions with the US , Russia and France about acquiring ne wfighter aircrafts to replace the old MiG 21s .....The aircrafts in contention are the US made F-16(no details about the variant) ; The Mirage 2000-5 from France and another unknown aircraft(a joint bid made by Sukhoi and MiG manufacturers) from Russia .
The article also says that the Mirage 2000-5 is the favourite.
I am sure the F-16 is perhaps the best jet for dog fights but there are many reasons against it as discussed above . But wouldn't it be nice to have the latest F-16 customised for India ? Especially since F-16s are the only ace top class aircraft in the PAF ?
The article also says that the Mirage 2000-5 is the favourite.
I am sure the F-16 is perhaps the best jet for dog fights but there are many reasons against it as discussed above . But wouldn't it be nice to have the latest F-16 customised for India ? Especially since F-16s are the only ace top class aircraft in the PAF ?
IAF to induct 125 fighters to replace ageing MiG fleet
http://us.rediff.com/news/2004/feb/29iaf.htm?headline=IAF~to~partially~replace~ageing~MiG~fleet
The Indian Air Force is in hectic negotiations with French, Russian and US bidders to purchase 125 frontline multi-role fighters to partially replace about 300 MiG-21 aircraft, which are on the verge of being phased out.
The IAF had projected an immediate need for about 125 new fighter planes with the selection to be completed in a few months. Some of the newly-purchased aircraft are likely to be given to the newly-raised Strategic Forces Command.
The new fighters would seek to partially replace 300 MiG 21 FL/M interceptors and 100 MiG 23BN ground attack fighters, which are on the verge of being phased out.
India, officials said, was expected to go in for direct purchase of the fighters in a bid to allow the Aircraft Development Agency (ADA) and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited more time to make progress on the Tejas, country's Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), which may be inducted only in 2009.
With the delay in the LCA programme, the IAF is in danger of entering a critical phase as it faces reduction in its fighter fleet from the current 39 squadrons to 32 by 2006.
The French-built Mirages, with their proven capability during the Kargil war and in Operation Parakram, are emerging as frontrunners. Dassault, while offering the upgraded Mirage 2000-5, is also ready for technology transfer arrangement to HAL. A high-level team from the company was recently in Delhi for protracted negotiations with the Defence Ministry and Indian Air Force officials.
The two major Russian fighter companies Mikoyan, makers of the MiG range of fighters, and Robensoexport, makers of Sukhoi aircraft, have formed a consortium to jointly bid for the Indian contract, according to Defence Ministry sources in Delhi.
The joint bid stems from India eliminating the Sukhoi OKB and NPK Irkut's offer of lighter versions of the still-to-be-developed SU-35 and SU-30 fighters.
The IAF wants a fighter with a maximum take off weight of 25,000 kg, forcing the Sukhoi company to join hands with Mikoyan to back the upgraded MiG-29MI/M2 for the contract. However, the Russian proposal seems to be a non-starter as Mikoyan cannot meet the Indian time schedule because it will be heavily engaged in the manufacture of the MiG 29K for the Admiral Gorshkov, which India has contracted to purchase.
Another contender is US company Lockheed-Martin, which is offering technology transfer of its runway bestseller F-16 Fighting Falcon.
http://us.rediff.com/news/2004/feb/29iaf.htm?headline=IAF~to~partially~replace~ageing~MiG~fleet
The Indian Air Force is in hectic negotiations with French, Russian and US bidders to purchase 125 frontline multi-role fighters to partially replace about 300 MiG-21 aircraft, which are on the verge of being phased out.
The IAF had projected an immediate need for about 125 new fighter planes with the selection to be completed in a few months. Some of the newly-purchased aircraft are likely to be given to the newly-raised Strategic Forces Command.
The new fighters would seek to partially replace 300 MiG 21 FL/M interceptors and 100 MiG 23BN ground attack fighters, which are on the verge of being phased out.
India, officials said, was expected to go in for direct purchase of the fighters in a bid to allow the Aircraft Development Agency (ADA) and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited more time to make progress on the Tejas, country's Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), which may be inducted only in 2009.
With the delay in the LCA programme, the IAF is in danger of entering a critical phase as it faces reduction in its fighter fleet from the current 39 squadrons to 32 by 2006.
The French-built Mirages, with their proven capability during the Kargil war and in Operation Parakram, are emerging as frontrunners. Dassault, while offering the upgraded Mirage 2000-5, is also ready for technology transfer arrangement to HAL. A high-level team from the company was recently in Delhi for protracted negotiations with the Defence Ministry and Indian Air Force officials.
The two major Russian fighter companies Mikoyan, makers of the MiG range of fighters, and Robensoexport, makers of Sukhoi aircraft, have formed a consortium to jointly bid for the Indian contract, according to Defence Ministry sources in Delhi.
The joint bid stems from India eliminating the Sukhoi OKB and NPK Irkut's offer of lighter versions of the still-to-be-developed SU-35 and SU-30 fighters.
The IAF wants a fighter with a maximum take off weight of 25,000 kg, forcing the Sukhoi company to join hands with Mikoyan to back the upgraded MiG-29MI/M2 for the contract. However, the Russian proposal seems to be a non-starter as Mikoyan cannot meet the Indian time schedule because it will be heavily engaged in the manufacture of the MiG 29K for the Admiral Gorshkov, which India has contracted to purchase.
Another contender is US company Lockheed-Martin, which is offering technology transfer of its runway bestseller F-16 Fighting Falcon.
Roger Smith
New Member
Lockheed-Martin offers F-16 fighter deal to India.Indus said:
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_news_article86.html