JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 / Super-7 Discussions
- Thread starter kilo_4que
- Start date
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
Saudis too will go for it & UAE may probably buy handful of them. KSA, UAE, Iran, Syria, Libya have yet to express their desire or vice versa.
the 1st five Egypt, Burma, Banglades, Nigeria, Zimbabwe are interested in buying. They have seen the prototype at PAC Karma. Egypt wants a ToT just as for K-8.srirangan said:
Saudis too will go for it & UAE may probably buy handful of them. KSA, UAE, Iran, Syria, Libya have yet to express their desire or vice versa.
kashifshahzad
Banned Member
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
It would be silly to sell 2-3 AC's to the countries is this a fish market come a get the quantity which you want. Man these are ACs you should not sell them in this quantity you people know what they will do with them copy the technology and you will see there would be versions comming from their country.I have read some where that Pakistan has exported 200 anti tank missiles to Bangladesh what is the purpose of that purchases if they really want to buy they should buy in a quantity more then a thousand.
Suppose PAF requests Russia for 1 Su-30 ,Requests France for 1 Rafale,US for 1 F-22 and SAAB for 1 grippen what do you think about this they are gonna whip out PAF this shows PAF would be not really intrested in them want to copy the tech
It would be silly to sell 2-3 AC's to the countries is this a fish market come a get the quantity which you want. Man these are ACs you should not sell them in this quantity you people know what they will do with them copy the technology and you will see there would be versions comming from their country.I have read some where that Pakistan has exported 200 anti tank missiles to Bangladesh what is the purpose of that purchases if they really want to buy they should buy in a quantity more then a thousand.
Suppose PAF requests Russia for 1 Su-30 ,Requests France for 1 Rafale,US for 1 F-22 and SAAB for 1 grippen what do you think about this they are gonna whip out PAF this shows PAF would be not really intrested in them want to copy the tech
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
Imho either these are private 1-1 bids to purchase, thus no tenders from Russian companies hence China can sell them. Or these countries haven't invited bids from Russian companies, infact have outright refused them. Any other possibility?
Interesting scenario. China is the only manufacturer atm (wrt. Pak and Rooskie engine problems) and they too aren't allowed to export where Russian companies are bidding. Yet these countries have approached Pakistan to purchase the JF-17's. The puzzle doesn't fully fit. Can anyone explain?SABRE said:
Imho either these are private 1-1 bids to purchase, thus no tenders from Russian companies hence China can sell them. Or these countries haven't invited bids from Russian companies, infact have outright refused them. Any other possibility?
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
The egyptian interest first became public, when they were denied the AIM-120 by the US due to israili pressure. Then they shifted there focus to the JF-17, mainly due to SD-10. Wether or nor they were offered a russian BVR missile, i dont know. This is what i read sometime back. Can't give you any source for it at the moment sorry.
The egyptian interest first became public, when they were denied the AIM-120 by the US due to israili pressure. Then they shifted there focus to the JF-17, mainly due to SD-10. Wether or nor they were offered a russian BVR missile, i dont know. This is what i read sometime back. Can't give you any source for it at the moment sorry.
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
Yes the Egyptions wont by Russian AirCrafts & hence wont get Russian BVRAAMs. But I think they should. They already ahve 200 F-16s & are not buying any more so no trouble from US unless US has threatened to bar spare parts & components.
To avoide pressure from US they dont go to Russia & instead of going to Chinese they came to Pakistan for both K-8 & JF-17. But I think they are getting a little bit out of the way by asking for ToT. China Pakistan agreed on K-8 ToT probably thats why they think we'll do it with JF-17. But yes the SD-10 is the main source of attraction for them.
I read some where that China is not willing to sell SD-10 at the moment to any country not on its allies list. SD-10 is the major part of JF-17 that makes it interesting for export. On the other hand China also has good relations with Israel & Israel may pursue China not to sell SD-10 to Egypt & according to 1st 5 year pact both Pakistan & China cant sell SD-10 to any country unless mutualy agreed (few countries are excluded from this & can be sold early on by either country --- I have only herd of this pact dont realy know if it exists). I think Egypt may find it hard to aquire SD-10 but since they are the 1st to officialy show interest they might have had some agreement on SD-10 with Chinese & Pakistanis.
Zimbabwe was rejected SD-10. Pakistan dont want to make diplomatic gaps with South Africa. Bangladesh has also been denied SD-10 early on with JF-17.
Seems like Pakistan & China realy charish SD-10 & will be very hard on selling SD-10 to any one.
Yes the Egyptions wont by Russian AirCrafts & hence wont get Russian BVRAAMs. But I think they should. They already ahve 200 F-16s & are not buying any more so no trouble from US unless US has threatened to bar spare parts & components.
To avoide pressure from US they dont go to Russia & instead of going to Chinese they came to Pakistan for both K-8 & JF-17. But I think they are getting a little bit out of the way by asking for ToT. China Pakistan agreed on K-8 ToT probably thats why they think we'll do it with JF-17. But yes the SD-10 is the main source of attraction for them.
I read some where that China is not willing to sell SD-10 at the moment to any country not on its allies list. SD-10 is the major part of JF-17 that makes it interesting for export. On the other hand China also has good relations with Israel & Israel may pursue China not to sell SD-10 to Egypt & according to 1st 5 year pact both Pakistan & China cant sell SD-10 to any country unless mutualy agreed (few countries are excluded from this & can be sold early on by either country --- I have only herd of this pact dont realy know if it exists). I think Egypt may find it hard to aquire SD-10 but since they are the 1st to officialy show interest they might have had some agreement on SD-10 with Chinese & Pakistanis.
Zimbabwe was rejected SD-10. Pakistan dont want to make diplomatic gaps with South Africa. Bangladesh has also been denied SD-10 early on with JF-17.
Seems like Pakistan & China realy charish SD-10 & will be very hard on selling SD-10 to any one.
agent-0011
New Member
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
how are they compared to the mig-29
how are they compared to the mig-29
agent-0011
New Member
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
I mean JF-17 compared to mig 29, not SD-10pshamim said:
kashifshahzad
Banned Member
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
Why Egypt will find it hard to acquire SD-10 if China is ally of Isreal then Pakistan and egypt are Muslim countries.Pakistan would prefer to give this missile to Egypt but the US or Isreal pressure can come to Paksitan and China respectively.Pakistan and China can get heavy price for that missile both would be getting benifits from it.
Why Bangladesh was denied they are very poor I think they donot have any BVR capebility in their planes . I also dont know which planes they are operating now
Was this thing ( development of SD-10) included in the ToT I think only the development of the airframes was included as far as missile development is considered Pakistan id only developing short range G2A missiles such as anza and Pakistan do not have ability to develop an A2A missile.If this is true then this will be a big milestone in the pakistan's history only a few countries produce BVRAAM's.adsH said:
Why Egypt will find it hard to acquire SD-10 if China is ally of Isreal then Pakistan and egypt are Muslim countries.Pakistan would prefer to give this missile to Egypt but the US or Isreal pressure can come to Paksitan and China respectively.Pakistan and China can get heavy price for that missile both would be getting benifits from it.
Why Bangladesh was denied they are very poor I think they donot have any BVR capebility in their planes . I also dont know which planes they are operating now
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
Just a few brief key points on the JF-17 production phase.
Just a few brief key points on the JF-17 production phase.
- there are 4 prototypes to fly. PT-1, PT-2, PT-3 and PT-4 which is to fly this year.
- PT-4 will be testing integration of the Chinese radar and SD-10 BVR missile.
- Pakistan will initially produce 50% of the aircraft locally, progressively increasing to 100%
- Full rate production is planned to start in 2007 turning out 20 aircraft per year.
- The initial production aircraft will probably feature a Chinese radar which would enable use of the Chinese BVR SD-10 missile. But Pakistan plans to put the Grifo radar in the initial production aircraft for evualuation and testing of the avionics with the Grifo.
- The Pakistan Air Force have offered the FC-1/JF-17 to the Royal Malaysian Air Force. China Aviation Import and Export Corporation (CATIC) and CAC are marketing the FC-1 to potential customers currently including Bangladesh, Egypt and Nigeria, more are likely to follow soon.
- Future variants will include a two-seat fully combat-capable training version, which is scheduled to begin flight testing in 2006. It features a lengthened fuselage to accomodate the additional cockpit.
- China may also develop its own powerplant for the FC-1. Also there are plans to include air-to-air refuelling probes and modifications incorporating modern avionics.
- Pakistan is also looking at adding advanced Western weapons and avionics in the future. It is also looking at the possibility of acquiring anti-radiation missiles, which could be the same as the BVR missile with a different seeker head.
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
Q and A with Chief Project Director, JF-17 Project, PAF
Q. Has PAF carried out an assessment of the training-requirements for induction of JF-17 aircraft? How will they be met?
A. So far the PAF has not chalked out any training programme for its pilots on JF-17 aircraft. However, owing to the excellent man- machine interface of JF-17 aircraft, it can be assumed with confidence that the training for flying this aircraft would neither be difficult nor a complex affair. Reports from the Chinese and PAF test pilots in China also confirm the fact that JF-17 is a pilot-friendly and easy aircraft to fly. Since training to fly the JF-17 aircraft would not be time consuming and induction of the aircraft in PAF is still two years away, therefore, it is a little premature to chalk-out the training plan.
Q. How will PAF conduct acceptance of JF-17 aircraft from the manufacturer i.e. what does it involve?
A. PAF will not only be the user but also the manufacturer of JF-17 aircraft. Therefore, manufacturing and production process of JF-17 aircraft would be monitored and controlled by PAF from the very beginning. Since PAF is a quality conscious organisation, therefore, highest standards of quality will be ensured at all tiers of production. Nevertheless, after the completion of manufacturing and assembly processes, elaborate ground and flight tests would still be conducted on all the newly manufactured JF-17 aircraft at PAC Kamra, before they are handed over to the fighter squadrons. For this purpose, a modern computerised ‘flight test centre’ is being established at PAC Kamra.
Such exhaustive ‘quality control’ and ‘quality assurance’ measures would certainly ensure a high quality of the product. Nevertheless, before flying the aircraft to the fighter bases, teams from operational squadrons of the PAF, comprising pilots, engineers, and technicians would also be asked to carry out ‘ground acceptance tests’ on the aircraft when it is handed over to them. Additionally, these pilots would also fly ‘Functional Check Flights’ to re-assure themselves of the satisfactory functioning of all the aircraft systems and sub-systems.
Q. Will JF-17 (or its variant) be used in the naval role.
A. Yes, JF-17 is an all-weather, multi-role combat aircraft, which can be effectively used against almost all types of targets including those at sea. Therefore, the aircraft will be appropriately configured to effectively undertake the maritime operations as well. For this purpose, it is being equipped with a modern radar, which would have good performance against all types of targets even during bad weather, rough sea-states and EW environments. The aircraft is also being equipped with an auto-pilot, accurate navigation system, and other avionics systems, which are installed in any modern aircraft to ensure efficient day / night operations over the sea. In its weapons package, the aircraft is being equipped with modern anti-shipping missiles and anti-radiation missiles, in addition to the general-purpose bombs and LASER guided bombs. These capabilities would certainly make JF-17 aircraft a potent weapon system, which can be effectively used for all type of missions over the sea.
Q. Can your provide some details about JF-17’s avionics and weapon suite?
A. JF-17 aircraft will have a modern avionics architecture, which will be supported by two mission computers, ‘Smart Multi Function Coloured Displays’, ‘Smart Heads Up Display’, ICP and HOTAS arrangement. These features will provide an excellent man-machine-interface to the pilot in a complete glass-cockpit environment. In the avionics layout, mechanical sub-systems of the aircraft will also be interfaced to provide automatic monitoring of almost all the aircraft sub-systems. In case of a malfunction in any of the aircraft sub-systems, the onboard computers will provide fault analysis, warning and guidance to the pilot.
The aircraft will have a modern powerful radar, which will have excellent performance in air-to-air, air-to-ground and air-to-sea modes. A ‘tactical data link’ system, which will be integrated with the other air-borne and ground-based sensors, will also be available to provide comprehensive ‘situational awareness’ to the pilot. The aircraft will also be equipped with IRSTS, CLDP, and Helmet Mounted Display to provide all weather operations capability in all types of environments. The navigation system of the aircraft will be based on the Ring LASER gyro which would be coupled with the GPS.
For providing qualitative operational training, the aircraft will also be equipped with ACMI, Solid State Digital Data/ Video Recorder and the DTC, whereas TACAN, ILS etc will also be available for efficient and safe aircraft operations at night and during bad weather conditions. For its self-protection, the aircraft will have an Integrated Counter Measure System, which would automatically operate to ward –off different types of threats by employing CFD and ECM pod. The ICMS will get its update from the RWR, MAWS and other sensors. Two independent high-performance wide-band radios alongwith an independent data link will ensure efficient communication even during intense EW environments. In short, JF-17 aircraft will have a highly modern avionics suite, which will certainly provide the cutting- edge to the aircraft.
Q. Currently, the JF-17 prototypes are equipped with a mix of hydraulic and FBW system. Will the production models retain this unique system or will they be equipped with a complete FBW system?
A. The flight controls of JF-17 aircraft are commanded through six computers and operated by two hydraulic systems. The six ‘flight control computers’ have a lot of redundancy within themselves, therefore, the aircraft would keep flying normally, even if couple of computers fail. This redundancy is a common feature of almost all the fly-by-wire control systems in the world. However, a unique feature of JF-17 aircraft is that it can fly like a conventional aircraft even when all its flight control computers fail. This arrangement is an added safety feature, which provides an additional advantage to the aircraft without any adverse effects. Therefore, it would be retained in the serial production aircraft as well.
Q. When will Pakistan get its first aircraft for evaluation and training?
A. Pakistani test pilots and test-engineers are already involved in the complete flight testing and evaluation phase of JF-17 aircraft in China . Therefore, these tests will not be repeated in Pakistan. The small-batch or the pilot-batch production would start in the middle of 2004 and PAF would get its first aircraft in the second half of the Year-2006.
Q. What is the final number of JF-17s to be procured? Is it still 150 aircraft or has the number been raised due to the failure in procuring the 4th generation fighter?
A. Before answering the question, it would be appropriate to clarify the fact that PAF has not failed in procuring the hi-tech aircraft. As a matter of fact, PAF is only keeping its options open for the time being, for procurement of such an aircraft.
As far as the JF-17 is concerned, the number and induction schedule of this aircraft in PAF would be regulated according to the operational requirements of the service. Therefore, there is a lot of flexibility in the induction schedule and the total number of aircraft, which would be acquired by the PAF over the years. In the same context, it would be appropriate to mention that JF-17’s manufacturing facilities will have enough capacity to meet the domestic as well as foreign customer’s demands, simultaneously. Hence, lack of production capacity would never become a factor in the induction of a required number of JF-17 aircraft in the PAF.
Q. When will the dual-seat JF-17 aircraft be produced and what will be the ratio of these aircraft in PAF’s JF-17 fleet vis-à -vis single-seat aircraft?
A. Presently, the Project is concentrating on timely serial production of single seat JF-17 aircraft. Since an urgent requirement for production of a dual-seat model does not exist, therefore, the schedule for serial production of dual-seat aircraft has not been determined as yet. For the same reason, the ratio of dual-seat aircraft versus single-seat aircraft in PAF’s JF-17 fleet has also not been finalised as yet.
Q. Will the first batch of JF-17s be equipped with an in-flight refuelling system? Will in-flight refuelling be based on a buddy refuelling system or will a tanker fleet be actually required?
A. The serial production of JF-17 aircraft will have the air-to-air refuelling capability, but the initial batch of these aircraft will not have the air-to-air refuelling kit installed on them. Nevertheless, basic design of all the JF-17 aircraft fulfils all the essential requirements for providing air-to-air refuelling capability. Therefore, by simple modification of an air-to-air refuelling kit, the first batch of aircraft will also be modified for the air-to-air refuelling capability.
"Buddy" refuelling is a good option, but in many tactical situations, the need for a tanker aircraft cannot be ignored. Therefore, acquisition of tanker aircraft is a natural requirement for any Air Force, which desires to have the air-to-air refuelling capability on its fighter fleet.
Thanks to
pakdef.info
Q and A with Chief Project Director, JF-17 Project, PAF
Q. Has PAF carried out an assessment of the training-requirements for induction of JF-17 aircraft? How will they be met?
A. So far the PAF has not chalked out any training programme for its pilots on JF-17 aircraft. However, owing to the excellent man- machine interface of JF-17 aircraft, it can be assumed with confidence that the training for flying this aircraft would neither be difficult nor a complex affair. Reports from the Chinese and PAF test pilots in China also confirm the fact that JF-17 is a pilot-friendly and easy aircraft to fly. Since training to fly the JF-17 aircraft would not be time consuming and induction of the aircraft in PAF is still two years away, therefore, it is a little premature to chalk-out the training plan.
Q. How will PAF conduct acceptance of JF-17 aircraft from the manufacturer i.e. what does it involve?
A. PAF will not only be the user but also the manufacturer of JF-17 aircraft. Therefore, manufacturing and production process of JF-17 aircraft would be monitored and controlled by PAF from the very beginning. Since PAF is a quality conscious organisation, therefore, highest standards of quality will be ensured at all tiers of production. Nevertheless, after the completion of manufacturing and assembly processes, elaborate ground and flight tests would still be conducted on all the newly manufactured JF-17 aircraft at PAC Kamra, before they are handed over to the fighter squadrons. For this purpose, a modern computerised ‘flight test centre’ is being established at PAC Kamra.
Such exhaustive ‘quality control’ and ‘quality assurance’ measures would certainly ensure a high quality of the product. Nevertheless, before flying the aircraft to the fighter bases, teams from operational squadrons of the PAF, comprising pilots, engineers, and technicians would also be asked to carry out ‘ground acceptance tests’ on the aircraft when it is handed over to them. Additionally, these pilots would also fly ‘Functional Check Flights’ to re-assure themselves of the satisfactory functioning of all the aircraft systems and sub-systems.
Q. Will JF-17 (or its variant) be used in the naval role.
A. Yes, JF-17 is an all-weather, multi-role combat aircraft, which can be effectively used against almost all types of targets including those at sea. Therefore, the aircraft will be appropriately configured to effectively undertake the maritime operations as well. For this purpose, it is being equipped with a modern radar, which would have good performance against all types of targets even during bad weather, rough sea-states and EW environments. The aircraft is also being equipped with an auto-pilot, accurate navigation system, and other avionics systems, which are installed in any modern aircraft to ensure efficient day / night operations over the sea. In its weapons package, the aircraft is being equipped with modern anti-shipping missiles and anti-radiation missiles, in addition to the general-purpose bombs and LASER guided bombs. These capabilities would certainly make JF-17 aircraft a potent weapon system, which can be effectively used for all type of missions over the sea.
Q. Can your provide some details about JF-17’s avionics and weapon suite?
A. JF-17 aircraft will have a modern avionics architecture, which will be supported by two mission computers, ‘Smart Multi Function Coloured Displays’, ‘Smart Heads Up Display’, ICP and HOTAS arrangement. These features will provide an excellent man-machine-interface to the pilot in a complete glass-cockpit environment. In the avionics layout, mechanical sub-systems of the aircraft will also be interfaced to provide automatic monitoring of almost all the aircraft sub-systems. In case of a malfunction in any of the aircraft sub-systems, the onboard computers will provide fault analysis, warning and guidance to the pilot.
The aircraft will have a modern powerful radar, which will have excellent performance in air-to-air, air-to-ground and air-to-sea modes. A ‘tactical data link’ system, which will be integrated with the other air-borne and ground-based sensors, will also be available to provide comprehensive ‘situational awareness’ to the pilot. The aircraft will also be equipped with IRSTS, CLDP, and Helmet Mounted Display to provide all weather operations capability in all types of environments. The navigation system of the aircraft will be based on the Ring LASER gyro which would be coupled with the GPS.
For providing qualitative operational training, the aircraft will also be equipped with ACMI, Solid State Digital Data/ Video Recorder and the DTC, whereas TACAN, ILS etc will also be available for efficient and safe aircraft operations at night and during bad weather conditions. For its self-protection, the aircraft will have an Integrated Counter Measure System, which would automatically operate to ward –off different types of threats by employing CFD and ECM pod. The ICMS will get its update from the RWR, MAWS and other sensors. Two independent high-performance wide-band radios alongwith an independent data link will ensure efficient communication even during intense EW environments. In short, JF-17 aircraft will have a highly modern avionics suite, which will certainly provide the cutting- edge to the aircraft.
Q. Currently, the JF-17 prototypes are equipped with a mix of hydraulic and FBW system. Will the production models retain this unique system or will they be equipped with a complete FBW system?
A. The flight controls of JF-17 aircraft are commanded through six computers and operated by two hydraulic systems. The six ‘flight control computers’ have a lot of redundancy within themselves, therefore, the aircraft would keep flying normally, even if couple of computers fail. This redundancy is a common feature of almost all the fly-by-wire control systems in the world. However, a unique feature of JF-17 aircraft is that it can fly like a conventional aircraft even when all its flight control computers fail. This arrangement is an added safety feature, which provides an additional advantage to the aircraft without any adverse effects. Therefore, it would be retained in the serial production aircraft as well.
Q. When will Pakistan get its first aircraft for evaluation and training?
A. Pakistani test pilots and test-engineers are already involved in the complete flight testing and evaluation phase of JF-17 aircraft in China . Therefore, these tests will not be repeated in Pakistan. The small-batch or the pilot-batch production would start in the middle of 2004 and PAF would get its first aircraft in the second half of the Year-2006.
Q. What is the final number of JF-17s to be procured? Is it still 150 aircraft or has the number been raised due to the failure in procuring the 4th generation fighter?
A. Before answering the question, it would be appropriate to clarify the fact that PAF has not failed in procuring the hi-tech aircraft. As a matter of fact, PAF is only keeping its options open for the time being, for procurement of such an aircraft.
As far as the JF-17 is concerned, the number and induction schedule of this aircraft in PAF would be regulated according to the operational requirements of the service. Therefore, there is a lot of flexibility in the induction schedule and the total number of aircraft, which would be acquired by the PAF over the years. In the same context, it would be appropriate to mention that JF-17’s manufacturing facilities will have enough capacity to meet the domestic as well as foreign customer’s demands, simultaneously. Hence, lack of production capacity would never become a factor in the induction of a required number of JF-17 aircraft in the PAF.
Q. When will the dual-seat JF-17 aircraft be produced and what will be the ratio of these aircraft in PAF’s JF-17 fleet vis-à -vis single-seat aircraft?
A. Presently, the Project is concentrating on timely serial production of single seat JF-17 aircraft. Since an urgent requirement for production of a dual-seat model does not exist, therefore, the schedule for serial production of dual-seat aircraft has not been determined as yet. For the same reason, the ratio of dual-seat aircraft versus single-seat aircraft in PAF’s JF-17 fleet has also not been finalised as yet.
Q. Will the first batch of JF-17s be equipped with an in-flight refuelling system? Will in-flight refuelling be based on a buddy refuelling system or will a tanker fleet be actually required?
A. The serial production of JF-17 aircraft will have the air-to-air refuelling capability, but the initial batch of these aircraft will not have the air-to-air refuelling kit installed on them. Nevertheless, basic design of all the JF-17 aircraft fulfils all the essential requirements for providing air-to-air refuelling capability. Therefore, by simple modification of an air-to-air refuelling kit, the first batch of aircraft will also be modified for the air-to-air refuelling capability.
"Buddy" refuelling is a good option, but in many tactical situations, the need for a tanker aircraft cannot be ignored. Therefore, acquisition of tanker aircraft is a natural requirement for any Air Force, which desires to have the air-to-air refuelling capability on its fighter fleet.
Thanks to
pakdef.info
Last edited by a moderator:
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
Why doesn't Pakistan stick the Atar (Mirage 3 engine) in about a 100 JF17's.
It makes sense. They're about the same size a s RD33/RD93. .Pakistan has between 50-150 brand new ones from Libya + I am quite sure many other new ones from various other sources.They are upgradeable from French upgrade kits and can be made lighter eg Titanium blades etc.The engines can allow the JF17 to go beyond Mach 2 as the plane is lighter than the Mirage 3 and 5 which is capable of doing Mach 2.2
Pakistan can ask worldwide manufacturing rights for the engine.
Pakistan can save the money from the engines and concentrate on avionics for the plane. Does the engine matter that much considering the aim of the plane ids for handling and avionics
In any case isn't the Atar better built than RD33 which the RD93 is based upon? Furhtermore the Atar is time tested and the PAF know the product in and out and Kamra is able to effectively work on the engine saving costs and familiarisation time on the engine. I think it makes sense.
Why doesn't Pakistan stick the Atar (Mirage 3 engine) in about a 100 JF17's.
It makes sense. They're about the same size a s RD33/RD93. .Pakistan has between 50-150 brand new ones from Libya + I am quite sure many other new ones from various other sources.They are upgradeable from French upgrade kits and can be made lighter eg Titanium blades etc.The engines can allow the JF17 to go beyond Mach 2 as the plane is lighter than the Mirage 3 and 5 which is capable of doing Mach 2.2
Pakistan can ask worldwide manufacturing rights for the engine.
Pakistan can save the money from the engines and concentrate on avionics for the plane. Does the engine matter that much considering the aim of the plane ids for handling and avionics
In any case isn't the Atar better built than RD33 which the RD93 is based upon? Furhtermore the Atar is time tested and the PAF know the product in and out and Kamra is able to effectively work on the engine saving costs and familiarisation time on the engine. I think it makes sense.
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
Remember, it was South Africa that wanted to upgrade their Cheetah's with SMR-95's (which was a development of the RD-33). The Atar is no good for the JF-17. Overweight, oversize, and underpowered (and not that reliable).
The ATAR 9K50 is 500kg. heavier (1,582 kg. vs. 1,055 kg.) and is 1700 mm. longer (5,944 mm vs. 4,230 mm) than the RD-33/93. And has 2,500 lbs. less wet thrust. (15,870 lbs. vs. 18,300 lbs.).Hussain said:
Remember, it was South Africa that wanted to upgrade their Cheetah's with SMR-95's (which was a development of the RD-33). The Atar is no good for the JF-17. Overweight, oversize, and underpowered (and not that reliable).
Last edited: