JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 / Super-7 Discussions

[aaaditya]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

kashif you have mentioned that jf-17 is 80-85%as capable as f-16 but you did not mention which variant(whichever variant you may mean it still would mean that jf-17 is 20-15% inferior to f-16,which proves that as of now jf-17 cannot fully match f-16,i woul realy doubt if the comparison is against the f-16b52 aircraft which pakistan is acquiring ).:coffee

 

[mysterious]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

Aaaditya, u're questions have been answered a dozen times by senior members if you care to look around a bit; instead of dragging the thread along on an issue already discussed before.

Aaah bail mujhey maaar!

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

If there are any more tit for tat comments made in this post it will be locked.

This does not require a response from anyone who feels a need to defend their actions.

 

[umair]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

First of all I'm tired of all this comparison crap! This thread is supposed to discuss the technical details of the JF-17 not to quantify it's performance parameters in %s wrt anyother platform/s. Another thing, that 80% was for public consumption and from my talks with people working on this thing, I've learnt one thing, public fodder is what it is public fodder.The only time we'll really be able to quantify this platform's performance will be when the finished product comes out and has served some service time.
Also if I see any more of these % posts, rest assured that I'll nuke em.

 

[webmaster]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17


Chinese JF-17 / FC-1 faces export hurdle
janes.com
Jul 18, 2005, 10:59
Editor Note: This report basically proves all other reports wrong about Russia allowing China to export JF-17 / FC-1 with RD-93 Engine to third country. Stay tuned for latest on this...

Russian engine manufacturer Chernyshev Moscow Machine Building Enterprise has banned China from entering its RD-93-engined FC-1 attack fighter aircraft in any procurement competition where it is up against a Russian aircraft.

The Chengdhu FC-1, Pakistani designation JF-17, is a joint development between Pakistan and China but the issue of the powerplant remains unresolved. Russia has ruled out export of the RD-93, a development of the RD-33, to Pakistan to avoid upsetting India.

A Chernyshev spokesperson said there are explicit terms in the original contract stating that the "RD-93 should not be exported to any third country" without Russian permission and the engine will not be allowed in any competition where a Russian manufacturer is bidding.

URL of this article:
http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/article_002681.php

Major Setback for JF-17 / FC-1 Program.

 

[pshamim]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

Well! FC-1 will not be competing against Mig-29 or SU-30s. Regarding export of RD-93 to a third country, I think it is posturing before the 126 MRCA decision by Indians. Pakistanis are still not fazed-must have something up their sleaves.

 

[kashifshahzad]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

Well! FC-1 will not be competing against Mig-29 or SU-30s. Regarding export of RD-93 to a third country, I think it is posturing before the 126 MRCA decision by Indians. Pakistanis are still not fazed-must have something up their sleaves.

Yeah it is not going to compete the the Mig29's and the SU30's.

We have an alternate for the radar after the rejection from the french the Italian Grifo S-7 fire-control radar but how can the replacemt of RD-93 can be done do they have any other country which can give the engines to fit into the the JF-17.
I also want to know that the previous AC's which PAF from China what engines the use and what is their origin.

China is also developing its own WS-10A turbofan powerplant, and it could be fitted on the later versions of the J-10. An all-aspect vectored-thrust version of the AL-31F was revealed for the first time at Zhuhai Air Show 1998, leading to speculation that this advanced engine may wind up on the J-10, potentially conferring phenomenal manoeuvrability.Could this engine be fitted into the JF-17 and when it going to come into production.

 

[pingpong]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

Chinese JF-17 / FC-1 faces export hurdle
janes.com
Jul 18, 2005, 10:59
Editor Note: This report basically proves all other reports wrong about Russia allowing China to export JF-17 / FC-1 with RD-93 Engine to third country. Stay tuned for latest on this...

Russian engine manufacturer Chernyshev Moscow Machine Building Enterprise has banned China from entering its RD-93-engined FC-1 attack fighter aircraft in any procurement competition where it is up against a Russian aircraft.

The Chengdhu FC-1, Pakistani designation JF-17, is a joint development between Pakistan and China but the issue of the powerplant remains unresolved. Russia has ruled out export of the RD-93, a development of the RD-33, to Pakistan to avoid upsetting India.

A Chernyshev spokesperson said there are explicit terms in the original contract stating that the "RD-93 should not be exported to any third country" without Russian permission and the engine will not be allowed in any competition where a Russian manufacturer is bidding.

URL of this article:
http://www.defencetalk.com/news/pub...icle_002681.php

Major Setback for JF-17 / FC-1 Program.

Pakistanis must be prepared for such a situation. Could any one enlist the details of engine options pakistan has.

Would the above mentioned ban by russia would hurt FC-1 or it can opt for other engines without any delay.
Could any one provide spec of other engines that pakistani plan to fit in FC-1.

 

[highsea]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

We have discussed this here in some depth. You can't switch engines without significant reengineering, which would translate into a pretty long delay.

Other engines in the size/weight/thrust class:
GE 404/414
Volvo RM-12 (based on GE404)
Rolls Royce EJ-200
Snecma M88-2 (2K lbs. less thrust)

Here is a comparison of the RD-93 and the GE404:

http://defencetalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=42514&postcount=128

 

[Salman78]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

China has not made any announcements on the FC-1. According to Chengdu officials at the 5th China Airshow in Zhuhai (Nov. 1-17, 2004), the PLAAF is still evaluating the AC. This matches what Sinodefence says also.

Various Pakistani sources have stated 200-250 planes for the PLAAF, but there is no open source confirmation of this. This doesn't mean the PLAAF won't use them, just that there is no confirmation from China as yet.

China has a bunch of aircraft projects going, and not all of them will see service in the PLAAF. The FC-1 has always been considered to be primarily an export product from China's perspective, since they have the J-10 and all the Flanker variants, plus the JXX project, etc. The FC-1/JF-17 is still a few years away from operational service, and it's hard to predict what the PLAAF will do.

Read more about the airshow and China's AC projects here:

http://www.strategycenter.net/research/pubID.54/pub_detail.asp

I strongly believe its just a matter of time before china officialy announces a large purchase order for JF-17's. The reason be their obsolete inventory of
J-7, F-6 and A-5 aircraft which need to be replaced by a medium tech aircraft like JF-17's.

JXX is far away even from the prototype stage.
J-10 is the frontline plane along with Su-30's. They need a backup fighter to fill in the gap

 

[mysterious]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

Maybe you are not aware of this development but it has already happened. China is going for Jf-17s (FC-1 for China) in the possible range of 150-200 aircrafts. That is why the deal with Russia materialized as Russians would have been assured that all the RD-93 engines procured would be used solely for the aircrafts to be supplied to the PLAAF. :coffee

 

[pingpong]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

Maybe you are not aware of this development but it has already happened. China is going for Jf-17s (FC-1 for China) in the possible range of 150-200 aircrafts. That is why the deal with Russia materialized as Russians would have been assured that all the RD-93 engines procured would be used solely for the aircrafts to be supplied to the PLAAF. :coffee

If PLAAF would be using RD-93, then what about the pakistanis. What engine they will use. This is the big question as pakistanis AC's are old and they desperatly need new jet. From the above news it seems that FC-1 will going to get late.

so far only hypothetical answers have been given. could any guy give any inside report of pakistani airforce options regarding the engine dilemma.

 

[srirangan]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

PAF could lease the FC-1's from the PLAAF.

 

[Salman78]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

Maybe you are not aware of this development but it has already happened. China is going for Jf-17s (FC-1 for China) in the possible range of 150-200 aircrafts. That is why the deal with Russia materialized as Russians would have been assured that all the RD-93 engines procured would be used solely for the aircrafts to be supplied to the PLAAF. :coffee

Yeah maybe i am not aware of the developments you are so sure about.

Mind posting a link for the story you got your information from ?
If PLAAF has already made the decision to acquire then whats the 150-200 range about ? havnt they given a fixed number.

Pakistan WILL get the JF-17's with RD-93 engines. Russians would have, could have, should have carries no meaning here.

Awaiting the link from you, proving official PLAAF claim of a specific number of FC-1 to be accquired.

 

[pshamim]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

This discussion on RD-93 whether they will be put on the JF-17 will not lead us to no where. Only Pakistanis, Chinese, and Russian know for sure what is the real story.

According to some:

a) PLAAF will not order FC-1s
b) PAF JF-17 are in trouble-no RD-93 for them

Question: Are there any other aircrafts either currently in service or under development in China which use RD-93?

Question: Can someone tell us where 500 RD-93 engines, ordered by China and confirmed by Russia, going to be used.

 

[umair]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

The engine issue has been resolved with Russia.
I've already posted in this forum somewhere how that's so. And I don't like to repeat myself.

 

[srirangan]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

The engine issue has been resolved with Russia.
I've already posted in this forum somewhere how that's so. And I don't like to repeat myself.

The latest news report on DT speaks of the contrary. :S

 

[ajay_ijn]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

Not only DT,but the janes website also reported.
India will try hard to block the engine.

The most surprising part is, there is not even a single pakistan official comment on Russia blocking RD-93.
Russia clearly specified about that many years ago.

 

[P.A.F]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

well if its true that russia would not provide the engine then why the hell did pakistan go ahead with the project. .

anyway, i bet disscussions are going on undercover about this and i'm sure india is adding a little salt n pepper here and there.

 

[P.A.F]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

This is all i could find on the engine business.
http://www.pakistanidefence.com/news/FullNews/2005/July2005/RD93forJF17.htm

JF-17 To Get Russian RD-93 Engines

July 1, 2005: PakistaniDefence.com reports, in a very welcomed new for JF-17 project Russia has signed a contract with China to supply RD-93 engines for Sino-Pak JF-17 fighter. This contract nulls all the reports that RD-93 will not be fitted into JF-17 hence making JF-17 not as effective as Chinese and Pakistani air forces would like it to be. This contract will allow initial supply of 100 engines its spare parts and maintenance. Net worth of this contract is 237 million dollars. Talks are already underway for another 500 engines.
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