Air Marshal
Member
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
Yes That's true........
Yes That's true........
JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 / Super-7 Discussions
- Thread starter kilo_4que
- Start date
Prestidigitator
New Member
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
The JF-17 will be a good fit for the low to middle tier for PAF, with F-16 C/D and any 4th gen plane taking the upper tier. PAF should find a good avionics suite sooner or later and also a good radar.
The issues however are with the confusion about the engine situation. That and the problem of finding a suite of AAMs and AGMs and making the software to mate them to the radar and avionics.
The JF-17 will be a good fit for the low to middle tier for PAF, with F-16 C/D and any 4th gen plane taking the upper tier. PAF should find a good avionics suite sooner or later and also a good radar.
The issues however are with the confusion about the engine situation. That and the problem of finding a suite of AAMs and AGMs and making the software to mate them to the radar and avionics.
Air Marshal
Member
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
SOME EFFECTIVE INFORMATON ABOUT JF-17 THUNDER
Introduction:
The FC-1 is the successor of the cancelled Pakistani/Chinese Sabre-2 project. The FC-1 (Fighter China-1) is being developed by Chengdu Aircraft Company (CAC) in conjunction with Pakistan, with technical assistance provided by Mikoyan OKB of Russia. The Pakistanidesignation is 'Super-7'. It will be powered by a license-produced RD-93 turbofan. The design
bears resemblance to the F-16 and the defunct F-20, suggesting an emphasis on high manoeuvrability. Its main customer is expected to be Pakistan which also partially funds the project and may have an interest of purchasing at least 150 FC-1s.
The FC-1 has been specifically developed for the Pakistan Air Force and the PLAAF but due to its design success and cost will be available for the export market. It is seen as a potential replacement for the Shenyang J-6, Chengdu J-7, Nanchang Q-5, Northrop F-5 and Dassault Mirage III/5. Air forces around the world operating these aircraft may have a special interest in purchasing the FC-1. Both PAC and CAC claim it to be as good as the Block 15 F-16A/B but cheaper. Air forces operating the F-16A/B but are short of funds may place orders for the FC-1 instead of the more expensive Block 52+ F-16C/D. Herein lies the potential of the FC-1 market.
Background:
The new multi-role fighter FC-1 is based on the Chengdu/Grumman Sabre-2 program that was abandoned some five years ago. Now the development is in collaboration with the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), Kamra and Russia's Mikoyan OKB Design Bureau. The aircraft is being jointly developed by Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) Kamra and
Chengdhu Aircraft Industrial Corporation. Mikoyan OKB is providing the improved version of the 80kN(18,000lb) st Klimov RD-33 turbofan, which is fitted to the MiG-29, designated RD-95. Three flying prototypes and two static test airframes are already under construction and first delivery is expected to take place during 2002. PAC Kamra will undertake manufacturing and assembly of this aircraft.
The FC-1 programme was launched in 1991 following cancellation of Grumman (USA) participation in the development of the Chengdu Super-7, which it replaces. Some design assistance from MiG OKB, possibly based on the (then-designated MiG-33) mid-1980s project for a single-engined variant of the MiG-29 may have been given. Two static test airframes have been built, to begin static testing in 1999. Expectation of eventual production rate of is approximately 50 aircraft per year. Chinese domestic requirement for the FC-1 is said to be for around 100 aircraft, with Pakistan wanting about 150, but a Pakistani order may be tempered by the need to find funds for its planned acquisition of Dassault Mirage 2000-5s
or some other advanced Western multi-role fighter.
The first prototype of FC-1 was set to fly in 1998, but the schedule has been further postponed till 2001 due to the higher standards set by the PAF to counter the threat from India's newly acquired Su-30MKIs as well as development problems. So far PLAAF has not made any commitment to buy FC-1, but a letter of intent (LOI) was reportedly signed by China and Pakistan in February 1998 to inject some new momentum to the much delayed project.
Features:
Powered by a Russian RD-93 turbofan (an upgraded RD-33), it is claimed to be 70-80% as capable as the F-16 (it was rumoured that the Chinese "borrowed" an F-16 from Pakistan for inspection). The LEX-featured wing and lateral air-intakes make it look similar to the Northrop F-20 Tigershark and the Taiwanese IDF. There are a total of 7 hardpoints for armaments
including 4 underwing, 2 wingtips, and 1 centreline weapons station. Its fire control radar may be selected from the GEC-Marconi Blue Hawk, Thomson-CSF RDY, Phanzotron Komar and FIAR Grifo S7. Other avionics including a 25° field of view HUD, two multi-functional displays and INS/GPS. Weapons load capability includes both short-range (AIM-9P/PL-9/Magic 2) and medium-range AAMs (PL-11/Aspide/Sparrow).
It is not yet known whether the aircraft has BVR (Beyond Visual Range) capability. There has been some development problems with the fly-by-wire (FBW) system, although the aircraft is expected to have a backup hydraulic control system. The success of the FC-1 will rest on the factor of BVR and FBW capability without which it will not be able to find customers beyond the PAF and PLAAF.
A number of manufactures are bidding for the avionics system, including GEC-Marconi, Thomson-CSF, and Phanzotron. The FC-1 cockpit will feature a HUD with 25° field of view, 2 multi-function displays, and INS/GPS navigation systems. It is expected to carry medium-range AAMs, as well as air-to-ground munitions. The maiden flight of the prototype was scheduled for early 1998, but technical delays and political foot-dragging have slipped the schedule to well after the year 2000. The PLAAF may be forced to take initial delivery under heavy pressure by Pakistan.
CAIC, the Chinese aerospace industry's export arm, says that the Chengdu/Kamra FC-1 will be in the same performance class as the Lockheed-Martin F-16. The aircraft could be assembled in both China and Pakistan. The unit cost is projected at approximately US $15 million apiece. Aircraft for the Pakistan Air Force would probably incorporate avionics of European origin, linked by a MIL-STD-1553B database. The Italian company FAIR, which is already supplying its Grifo lightweight fire-control radar to upgrade the Pakistan Air Force Mirage IIIEs and to equip its Chinese-designed F-7Ps, is bidding the equipment for the FC-1 and hopes for a decision soon. CATIC says that if the Chinese People's Liberation Army also
orders the FC-1, its variant would have indigenously developed avionics. The single seat FC-1 will be powered by the RD-93, an upgraded and licence built variant of the Russian Klimov RD-33, giving it a maximum speed of Mach 1.8 and an unrefuelled range of some 1300-1400 km. The aircraft will have seven hardpoints and an internal twin-barrelled 23-mm cannon. Western supplied equipment, at least for the Pakistani variant, includes a Martin-Baker MK101 ejection seat.
Design Features: Mid-mounted delta wing with narrow wingroot strakes at leading-edge; single turbofan engine; side-mounted twin intakes, with splitter plates; large intake trunks provide space for considerable internal fuel capacity. Large main fin with dorsal fairing; two smaller, uncanted ventral fins.
Flying Controls: Conventional hydraulic servo-operated control of ailerons, rudder and all-moving tailplane initially, with single analogue fly-by-wire system for back-up; provision for FBW to become primary system later. Trailing-edge flaps; emphasis on high manoeuvrability probably also indicates use of leading-edge flaps, as in F-7MG.
Structure: Primary structure conventional aluminium alloy semi-monocoque. Some components may be manufactured in Pakistan.
Landing Gear: Retractable tricycle type, with single wheel and oleo shock-absorber on each unit. Mainwheels retract upward into engine intake trunks; nosewheel retracts rearward.
Power Plant: One Klimov RD-93 (RD-33 derivative) turbofan (81.4 kN; 18,300 lb st with afterburning), possibly to be licence built by Liyang Machinery Corporation (LMC) for production aircraft. Could have alternative Western engine at customer's option. Substantial internal fuel capacity. Provision for external fuel tanks.
Accomodation: Single seat (Martin-Baker Zero/Zero Mk 10 in any aircraft for Pakistan) under one-piece canopy. Two-seat training versions also planned.
Avionics: Expected to be of domestic and/or Russian origin for Chinese squadrons and Western type if ordered by Pakistan Air Force. Will include pulse Doppler multirole radar. Competing candidates include GEC-Marconi, Thomson-CSF/Sextant, SAGEM, FIAR and Phazotron. Cockpit mockup exhibited at China Air Show `96 featured GMAv HUD and dual
head-down MFDs.
Armament: Underfuselage centreline station for 23 mm GSh-23-2 twin-barrel cannon or other store; two attachments under each wing and one at each wingtip. Weapons expected to include PL-7 and/or PL-10 AAMs, ASMs, bombs, gun and rocket pods, or other stores.
Basic Specifications:
Type: Multi-role fighter
Manufacturer: PAC (Pakistan)/CAIC (China)
Unit Cost: Approximately $15 million (1998 Forecast)
Dimensions (External):
Wingspan over AAMs: 9.50 m (31 ft 2 in)
Wingspan: basic 9.00 m (29 ft 6{1/4} in)
Length overall: 13.95 m (45 ft 9{1/4} in)
Height overall: 5.015 m (16 ft 5{1/2} in)
Wheel track: 2.30 m (7 ft 6{1/2} in)
Wheelbase: 5.14 m (16 ft 10{1/4} in)
Weights and Loadings:
Operating weight empty: 9,300 kg (20,530 lb)
Max external stores load: 3,600 kg (7,937 lb)
Max. take-off weight: 12,500 kg (27,557 lb)
Max. power loading: 154 kg/kN (1.51 lb/lb st)
Performance (estimated):
Max. level speed at altitude, clean: Mach 1.8
Service ceiling: 16,000 m (52,000 ft)
Take-off run: 500 m (1,640 ft)
Landing run: 700 m (2,300 ft)
Combat radius:
- Fighter Role: 648 n miles (1,200 km; 745 miles)
- Ground-Attack Role: 378 n miles (700 km; 435 miles)
Max. range on internal fuel: 864 n miles (1,600 km; 994 miles)
Max. ferry range: 1,200 n miles (2,220 km; 1,380 miles)
Max. G limit: +8 g
SOME EFFECTIVE INFORMATON ABOUT JF-17 THUNDER
Introduction:
The FC-1 is the successor of the cancelled Pakistani/Chinese Sabre-2 project. The FC-1 (Fighter China-1) is being developed by Chengdu Aircraft Company (CAC) in conjunction with Pakistan, with technical assistance provided by Mikoyan OKB of Russia. The Pakistanidesignation is 'Super-7'. It will be powered by a license-produced RD-93 turbofan. The design
bears resemblance to the F-16 and the defunct F-20, suggesting an emphasis on high manoeuvrability. Its main customer is expected to be Pakistan which also partially funds the project and may have an interest of purchasing at least 150 FC-1s.
The FC-1 has been specifically developed for the Pakistan Air Force and the PLAAF but due to its design success and cost will be available for the export market. It is seen as a potential replacement for the Shenyang J-6, Chengdu J-7, Nanchang Q-5, Northrop F-5 and Dassault Mirage III/5. Air forces around the world operating these aircraft may have a special interest in purchasing the FC-1. Both PAC and CAC claim it to be as good as the Block 15 F-16A/B but cheaper. Air forces operating the F-16A/B but are short of funds may place orders for the FC-1 instead of the more expensive Block 52+ F-16C/D. Herein lies the potential of the FC-1 market.
Background:
The new multi-role fighter FC-1 is based on the Chengdu/Grumman Sabre-2 program that was abandoned some five years ago. Now the development is in collaboration with the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), Kamra and Russia's Mikoyan OKB Design Bureau. The aircraft is being jointly developed by Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) Kamra and
Chengdhu Aircraft Industrial Corporation. Mikoyan OKB is providing the improved version of the 80kN(18,000lb) st Klimov RD-33 turbofan, which is fitted to the MiG-29, designated RD-95. Three flying prototypes and two static test airframes are already under construction and first delivery is expected to take place during 2002. PAC Kamra will undertake manufacturing and assembly of this aircraft.
The FC-1 programme was launched in 1991 following cancellation of Grumman (USA) participation in the development of the Chengdu Super-7, which it replaces. Some design assistance from MiG OKB, possibly based on the (then-designated MiG-33) mid-1980s project for a single-engined variant of the MiG-29 may have been given. Two static test airframes have been built, to begin static testing in 1999. Expectation of eventual production rate of is approximately 50 aircraft per year. Chinese domestic requirement for the FC-1 is said to be for around 100 aircraft, with Pakistan wanting about 150, but a Pakistani order may be tempered by the need to find funds for its planned acquisition of Dassault Mirage 2000-5s
or some other advanced Western multi-role fighter.
The first prototype of FC-1 was set to fly in 1998, but the schedule has been further postponed till 2001 due to the higher standards set by the PAF to counter the threat from India's newly acquired Su-30MKIs as well as development problems. So far PLAAF has not made any commitment to buy FC-1, but a letter of intent (LOI) was reportedly signed by China and Pakistan in February 1998 to inject some new momentum to the much delayed project.
Features:
Powered by a Russian RD-93 turbofan (an upgraded RD-33), it is claimed to be 70-80% as capable as the F-16 (it was rumoured that the Chinese "borrowed" an F-16 from Pakistan for inspection). The LEX-featured wing and lateral air-intakes make it look similar to the Northrop F-20 Tigershark and the Taiwanese IDF. There are a total of 7 hardpoints for armaments
including 4 underwing, 2 wingtips, and 1 centreline weapons station. Its fire control radar may be selected from the GEC-Marconi Blue Hawk, Thomson-CSF RDY, Phanzotron Komar and FIAR Grifo S7. Other avionics including a 25° field of view HUD, two multi-functional displays and INS/GPS. Weapons load capability includes both short-range (AIM-9P/PL-9/Magic 2) and medium-range AAMs (PL-11/Aspide/Sparrow).
It is not yet known whether the aircraft has BVR (Beyond Visual Range) capability. There has been some development problems with the fly-by-wire (FBW) system, although the aircraft is expected to have a backup hydraulic control system. The success of the FC-1 will rest on the factor of BVR and FBW capability without which it will not be able to find customers beyond the PAF and PLAAF.
A number of manufactures are bidding for the avionics system, including GEC-Marconi, Thomson-CSF, and Phanzotron. The FC-1 cockpit will feature a HUD with 25° field of view, 2 multi-function displays, and INS/GPS navigation systems. It is expected to carry medium-range AAMs, as well as air-to-ground munitions. The maiden flight of the prototype was scheduled for early 1998, but technical delays and political foot-dragging have slipped the schedule to well after the year 2000. The PLAAF may be forced to take initial delivery under heavy pressure by Pakistan.
CAIC, the Chinese aerospace industry's export arm, says that the Chengdu/Kamra FC-1 will be in the same performance class as the Lockheed-Martin F-16. The aircraft could be assembled in both China and Pakistan. The unit cost is projected at approximately US $15 million apiece. Aircraft for the Pakistan Air Force would probably incorporate avionics of European origin, linked by a MIL-STD-1553B database. The Italian company FAIR, which is already supplying its Grifo lightweight fire-control radar to upgrade the Pakistan Air Force Mirage IIIEs and to equip its Chinese-designed F-7Ps, is bidding the equipment for the FC-1 and hopes for a decision soon. CATIC says that if the Chinese People's Liberation Army also
orders the FC-1, its variant would have indigenously developed avionics. The single seat FC-1 will be powered by the RD-93, an upgraded and licence built variant of the Russian Klimov RD-33, giving it a maximum speed of Mach 1.8 and an unrefuelled range of some 1300-1400 km. The aircraft will have seven hardpoints and an internal twin-barrelled 23-mm cannon. Western supplied equipment, at least for the Pakistani variant, includes a Martin-Baker MK101 ejection seat.
Design Features: Mid-mounted delta wing with narrow wingroot strakes at leading-edge; single turbofan engine; side-mounted twin intakes, with splitter plates; large intake trunks provide space for considerable internal fuel capacity. Large main fin with dorsal fairing; two smaller, uncanted ventral fins.
Flying Controls: Conventional hydraulic servo-operated control of ailerons, rudder and all-moving tailplane initially, with single analogue fly-by-wire system for back-up; provision for FBW to become primary system later. Trailing-edge flaps; emphasis on high manoeuvrability probably also indicates use of leading-edge flaps, as in F-7MG.
Structure: Primary structure conventional aluminium alloy semi-monocoque. Some components may be manufactured in Pakistan.
Landing Gear: Retractable tricycle type, with single wheel and oleo shock-absorber on each unit. Mainwheels retract upward into engine intake trunks; nosewheel retracts rearward.
Power Plant: One Klimov RD-93 (RD-33 derivative) turbofan (81.4 kN; 18,300 lb st with afterburning), possibly to be licence built by Liyang Machinery Corporation (LMC) for production aircraft. Could have alternative Western engine at customer's option. Substantial internal fuel capacity. Provision for external fuel tanks.
Accomodation: Single seat (Martin-Baker Zero/Zero Mk 10 in any aircraft for Pakistan) under one-piece canopy. Two-seat training versions also planned.
Avionics: Expected to be of domestic and/or Russian origin for Chinese squadrons and Western type if ordered by Pakistan Air Force. Will include pulse Doppler multirole radar. Competing candidates include GEC-Marconi, Thomson-CSF/Sextant, SAGEM, FIAR and Phazotron. Cockpit mockup exhibited at China Air Show `96 featured GMAv HUD and dual
head-down MFDs.
Armament: Underfuselage centreline station for 23 mm GSh-23-2 twin-barrel cannon or other store; two attachments under each wing and one at each wingtip. Weapons expected to include PL-7 and/or PL-10 AAMs, ASMs, bombs, gun and rocket pods, or other stores.
Basic Specifications:
Type: Multi-role fighter
Manufacturer: PAC (Pakistan)/CAIC (China)
Unit Cost: Approximately $15 million (1998 Forecast)
Dimensions (External):
Wingspan over AAMs: 9.50 m (31 ft 2 in)
Wingspan: basic 9.00 m (29 ft 6{1/4} in)
Length overall: 13.95 m (45 ft 9{1/4} in)
Height overall: 5.015 m (16 ft 5{1/2} in)
Wheel track: 2.30 m (7 ft 6{1/2} in)
Wheelbase: 5.14 m (16 ft 10{1/4} in)
Weights and Loadings:
Operating weight empty: 9,300 kg (20,530 lb)
Max external stores load: 3,600 kg (7,937 lb)
Max. take-off weight: 12,500 kg (27,557 lb)
Max. power loading: 154 kg/kN (1.51 lb/lb st)
Performance (estimated):
Max. level speed at altitude, clean: Mach 1.8
Service ceiling: 16,000 m (52,000 ft)
Take-off run: 500 m (1,640 ft)
Landing run: 700 m (2,300 ft)
Combat radius:
- Fighter Role: 648 n miles (1,200 km; 745 miles)
- Ground-Attack Role: 378 n miles (700 km; 435 miles)
Max. range on internal fuel: 864 n miles (1,600 km; 994 miles)
Max. ferry range: 1,200 n miles (2,220 km; 1,380 miles)
Max. G limit: +8 g
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
Chinese made equipments aren't really as low-quality as they used to be, some Chinese gear are quite up to par with western standards. Of course China has no good indigenous engine or avionics, but provided the materials China's manufacturing industry could very well compete in quality with Russian or Indian products.
The stereotype of "made in china" has got to go someday, if not now then later.
Chinese made equipments aren't really as low-quality as they used to be, some Chinese gear are quite up to par with western standards. Of course China has no good indigenous engine or avionics, but provided the materials China's manufacturing industry could very well compete in quality with Russian or Indian products.
The stereotype of "made in china" has got to go someday, if not now then later.
kashifshahzad
Banned Member
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
Status Update:
FC-1/JF-17 prototype (serial number "01") conducted its first official test flight on September 3rd, 2003. The plane took off from Wenjiang Airport in Chengdu and stayed in air for about eight minutes. This prototype rolled out from the assembly line on 31 May 2003. On 1 July the it completed its first taxi run test at the test airfield in CAC.
Pakistan Air Force is going to receive ten of these in coming months to complete its own testing. Prototype "02" and "03" are in there final stages and PAF is expected to receive them soon. FC-1/JF-17 is to go under serial production by January 2006.
Pakistan Air Force has announced that it will include 150 of these planes at the same time China announcing that it will induct 200 of these planes into its Air Force. Once the work is completed on this deadly plane, it will create a new dimension in air combat standards. It will not only allow Pakistan to build this plane with its own recourses within the country but at the same time opening a huge export market.
http://www.pakistanidefence.com/PakAirForce/superSeven.html
Here for you dear new comerpingpong said:Guys I have heard that China is also buying about 200 of JF-17 ......
Is it true... do you people have any link which proves this...
Status Update:
FC-1/JF-17 prototype (serial number "01") conducted its first official test flight on September 3rd, 2003. The plane took off from Wenjiang Airport in Chengdu and stayed in air for about eight minutes. This prototype rolled out from the assembly line on 31 May 2003. On 1 July the it completed its first taxi run test at the test airfield in CAC.
Pakistan Air Force is going to receive ten of these in coming months to complete its own testing. Prototype "02" and "03" are in there final stages and PAF is expected to receive them soon. FC-1/JF-17 is to go under serial production by January 2006.
Pakistan Air Force has announced that it will include 150 of these planes at the same time China announcing that it will induct 200 of these planes into its Air Force. Once the work is completed on this deadly plane, it will create a new dimension in air combat standards. It will not only allow Pakistan to build this plane with its own recourses within the country but at the same time opening a huge export market.
http://www.pakistanidefence.com/PakAirForce/superSeven.html
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
Various Pakistani sources have stated 200-250 planes for the PLAAF, but there is no open source confirmation of this. This doesn't mean the PLAAF won't use them, just that there is no confirmation from China as yet.
China has a bunch of aircraft projects going, and not all of them will see service in the PLAAF. The FC-1 has always been considered to be primarily an export product from China's perspective, since they have the J-10 and all the Flanker variants, plus the JXX project, etc. The FC-1/JF-17 is still a few years away from operational service, and it's hard to predict what the PLAAF will do.
Read more about the airshow and China's AC projects here:
http://www.strategycenter.net/research/pubID.54/pub_detail.asp
China has not made any announcements on the FC-1. According to Chengdu officials at the 5th China Airshow in Zhuhai (Nov. 1-17, 2004), the PLAAF is still evaluating the AC. This matches what Sinodefence says also.kashifshahzad said:
Various Pakistani sources have stated 200-250 planes for the PLAAF, but there is no open source confirmation of this. This doesn't mean the PLAAF won't use them, just that there is no confirmation from China as yet.
China has a bunch of aircraft projects going, and not all of them will see service in the PLAAF. The FC-1 has always been considered to be primarily an export product from China's perspective, since they have the J-10 and all the Flanker variants, plus the JXX project, etc. The FC-1/JF-17 is still a few years away from operational service, and it's hard to predict what the PLAAF will do.
Read more about the airshow and China's AC projects here:
http://www.strategycenter.net/research/pubID.54/pub_detail.asp
ThunderBolt
New Member
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
A very simple question:
Is JF-17 better than F-16??
I can't really say anything about this bcoz JF-17 was made using some of the tech from f-16s. Even it looks like a F-16.
A very simple question:
Is JF-17 better than F-16??
I can't really say anything about this bcoz JF-17 was made using some of the tech from f-16s. Even it looks like a F-16.
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
er,what technology of f-16 was used on jf-17(was it the engine,the avionics,or the fbw or the cockpit glass )
jf-17 may be a good aircraft but at this stage comparing it with f-16 would be foolish also not much of jf-17 looks like f-16(only thing that it shares with f-16 is its conventional layout).:coffee
er,what technology of f-16 was used on jf-17(was it the engine,the avionics,or the fbw or the cockpit glass )
jf-17 may be a good aircraft but at this stage comparing it with f-16 would be foolish also not much of jf-17 looks like f-16(only thing that it shares with f-16 is its conventional layout).:coffee
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
I think you are confusing the JF17 with the J10. The J10 was based on the legacy F16 platform (Israeli assistance to the Chinese). And if I'm not mistaken the JF17 (FC-1) is based on the MiG 33 (if you go by internet reports).ThunderBolt said:A very simple question:
Is JF-17 better than F-16??
I can't really say anything about this bcoz JF-17 was made using some of the tech from f-16s. Even it looks like a F-16.
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Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
Otoh some claim that the FC-1 (JF-17) is a Russian single engine MiG29 plan sold of to the Chinese. Anybody having more info on this?
I doubt J10 is a continuation of the Lavi. It is based on the Lavi/F16 airframe but nothing more.WebMaster said:
Otoh some claim that the FC-1 (JF-17) is a Russian single engine MiG29 plan sold of to the Chinese. Anybody having more info on this?
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
Sri, the Lavi and F-16 airframes are completely different animals. The only thing the Lavi and F-16 have in common is a similar-looking forward fuselage and canpoy. You might say it was inspired by the F-16, but it did not come from GD, as they were not a major player in the Lavi development. All of the design work was done by IAI and Grumman.
Israel sold the Lavi to China lock, stock, and barrel. It was actually reported to the US Congress by CIA director James Woolsey clear back in 1993. Israel closed down their China office under US pressure, but Israeli engineers continued to work on the J-10 for several years after that (and no doubt still do).
There is no question that the J-10 is the Lavi, reincarnated with a Russian/Chinese engine and Russian/Chinese/Israeli avionics, but to think it has any significant F-16 technology in it is mistaken.
Sri, the Lavi and F-16 airframes are completely different animals. The only thing the Lavi and F-16 have in common is a similar-looking forward fuselage and canpoy. You might say it was inspired by the F-16, but it did not come from GD, as they were not a major player in the Lavi development. All of the design work was done by IAI and Grumman.
Israel sold the Lavi to China lock, stock, and barrel. It was actually reported to the US Congress by CIA director James Woolsey clear back in 1993. Israel closed down their China office under US pressure, but Israeli engineers continued to work on the J-10 for several years after that (and no doubt still do).
There is no question that the J-10 is the Lavi, reincarnated with a Russian/Chinese engine and Russian/Chinese/Israeli avionics, but to think it has any significant F-16 technology in it is mistaken.
ThunderBolt
New Member
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
i am confused??
I think read somewhere on defencetalk that pak sold a F-16 to Shanghai and thats where pakistan contributed in the project. Someone said that JF-17 is capable of takeing on a F-16, or was it J10?? PLEASE can someone explain to me.
i am confused??
I think read somewhere on defencetalk that pak sold a F-16 to Shanghai and thats where pakistan contributed in the project. Someone said that JF-17 is capable of takeing on a F-16, or was it J10?? PLEASE can someone explain to me.
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
Thunderbolt-
There is no F-16 technology in the JF-17 or J-10. The JF-17 would not fare well against any F-16 of the current crop. Neither would the J-10 (mainly due to inferior weapons and avionics).
Pakistan did not sell any F-16's to China, the 40 AC that the US sold to Pakistan are all accounted for. Some people believe that they did provide access to the AC to Chinese engineers, but China was not really technologically capable of capitalizing on it, partly because they did not have the sophisticated machinery to make the complex skin shapes at the time (now they do, in the form of a Cincinatti 5-axis stretch press that was sold under the Clinton administration).
Now that's all we need to say about PAF F-16's to China. The topic is JF-17, and we don't want to get into a bunch of mudslinging over rumors, okay?
Thunderbolt-
There is no F-16 technology in the JF-17 or J-10. The JF-17 would not fare well against any F-16 of the current crop. Neither would the J-10 (mainly due to inferior weapons and avionics).
Pakistan did not sell any F-16's to China, the 40 AC that the US sold to Pakistan are all accounted for. Some people believe that they did provide access to the AC to Chinese engineers, but China was not really technologically capable of capitalizing on it, partly because they did not have the sophisticated machinery to make the complex skin shapes at the time (now they do, in the form of a Cincinatti 5-axis stretch press that was sold under the Clinton administration).
Now that's all we need to say about PAF F-16's to China. The topic is JF-17, and we don't want to get into a bunch of mudslinging over rumors, okay?
ThunderBolt
New Member
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
roger that cap, that solves it for me, thanx a bunch.
roger that cap, that solves it for me, thanx a bunch.
kashifshahzad
Banned Member
Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17
Dear mates tell me the difference between these three some says J-10 is the copy of F-16's and JF-17 thunder is a mixture tell me what F-16 can do and these two cant
FC-1/JF-17 MULTIROLE FIGHTER AIRCRAFT
SPECIFICATIONS
Crew: One
Wingspan: 9.00 m
Length: 14 m
Height: 5.10 m
Weight: Empty 6,321 kg; Normal take-off: 9,100 kg; Max take-off 12,700 kg; Max weapon payload 3,800 kg
Maximum Weapon Load: 3,600 kg
Maximum Speed: Mach 1.6
Range: Ferry range 3,000 km; Operational Radius 1,352 km
Service Ceiling: 16,500 m
Maximum Climb Rate: N/A
+G Limit: 8.5
Lockheed Martin F-16A/B Fighting Falcon
Origin: USA
Type: single-seat air-combat and multi-role fighter
Max Speed: 1,146 kt / 1,320 mph
Max Range 3,886 km / 2,415 miles
Dimensions: span 10.00 m / 32 ft 9.75 in
length 15.03 m / 49 ft 4 in
height 5.09 m / 16 ft 8.5 in
Weight: empty 8,273 kg / 18,218 lb
max. take-off 19,187 lb
Powerplant: one 13154-kg (29,000-lb) afterburning thrust Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-229 or General Electric F110-GE-129 turbofan
Armament: one 20-mm M61A1 Vulcan cannon with 500 rounds, plus provision for up to 9276 kg (20,450 Ib) of externa ordnance on one underfuselage, six underwing and two tip hardpoints, this total declining to 5420 kg (11,950 Ib) for sorties including 9-g manoeuvres; the ordnance can include AIM-9 Sidewinder and AIM-120 AMRAAM air-to-air missiles, a wide range of disposable ordnance (free-tall and guided), drop tanks and electronic pods (ECM, reconnaissance and targeting)
China's fourth generation multi-role fighter aircraft J-10
Specifications
Primary Function: Multirole fighter
Builder: Chengdu Aircraft Industry Co. (CAC)
Power Plant: One Lyulka Saturn AL-31F turbofan
Thrust: 17,857 lb (79.43 kN) dry and 27,557 lb st (122.58 kN) with afterburning
Length: 14.57 m
Height: 4.78 m
Wingspan: 8.78 m
Wing Area: 33.1 m2
Speed: Mach 1.2 (sea-level) or Mach 2.0 (high altitude)
Ceiling: 18,000 m
Maximum Takeoff Weight: 18500 kg
Range: combat radius of 1,000 km
Armament: One 23 mm internal cannon, 4500 kg payload on 11 hardpoints
First Flight: 1996
Date Deployed: Around 2005
Dear mates tell me the difference between these three some says J-10 is the copy of F-16's and JF-17 thunder is a mixture tell me what F-16 can do and these two cant
FC-1/JF-17 MULTIROLE FIGHTER AIRCRAFT
SPECIFICATIONS
Crew: One
Wingspan: 9.00 m
Length: 14 m
Height: 5.10 m
Weight: Empty 6,321 kg; Normal take-off: 9,100 kg; Max take-off 12,700 kg; Max weapon payload 3,800 kg
Maximum Weapon Load: 3,600 kg
Maximum Speed: Mach 1.6
Range: Ferry range 3,000 km; Operational Radius 1,352 km
Service Ceiling: 16,500 m
Maximum Climb Rate: N/A
+G Limit: 8.5
Lockheed Martin F-16A/B Fighting Falcon
Origin: USA
Type: single-seat air-combat and multi-role fighter
Max Speed: 1,146 kt / 1,320 mph
Max Range 3,886 km / 2,415 miles
Dimensions: span 10.00 m / 32 ft 9.75 in
length 15.03 m / 49 ft 4 in
height 5.09 m / 16 ft 8.5 in
Weight: empty 8,273 kg / 18,218 lb
max. take-off 19,187 lb
Powerplant: one 13154-kg (29,000-lb) afterburning thrust Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-229 or General Electric F110-GE-129 turbofan
Armament: one 20-mm M61A1 Vulcan cannon with 500 rounds, plus provision for up to 9276 kg (20,450 Ib) of externa ordnance on one underfuselage, six underwing and two tip hardpoints, this total declining to 5420 kg (11,950 Ib) for sorties including 9-g manoeuvres; the ordnance can include AIM-9 Sidewinder and AIM-120 AMRAAM air-to-air missiles, a wide range of disposable ordnance (free-tall and guided), drop tanks and electronic pods (ECM, reconnaissance and targeting)
China's fourth generation multi-role fighter aircraft J-10
Specifications
Primary Function: Multirole fighter
Builder: Chengdu Aircraft Industry Co. (CAC)
Power Plant: One Lyulka Saturn AL-31F turbofan
Thrust: 17,857 lb (79.43 kN) dry and 27,557 lb st (122.58 kN) with afterburning
Length: 14.57 m
Height: 4.78 m
Wingspan: 8.78 m
Wing Area: 33.1 m2
Speed: Mach 1.2 (sea-level) or Mach 2.0 (high altitude)
Ceiling: 18,000 m
Maximum Takeoff Weight: 18500 kg
Range: combat radius of 1,000 km
Armament: One 23 mm internal cannon, 4500 kg payload on 11 hardpoints
First Flight: 1996
Date Deployed: Around 2005