Indonesia: 'green water navy'

[x100 XKR]

La portaerei Garibaldi in pensione dopo 41 anni: a Taranto anche una petizione online per tenerla in città come museo galleggiante

Una disfida a distanza con Genova per il futuro della storica unità della Marina militare

bari.repubblica.it

The quote I take from that La Repubblica article. This is already a month old, that basically talk about the option for Garibaldi fate. Either scrap it, sell it, or turn it into museum. It's a month old article, but it is shown there're quite serious approach from Indonesian side to look into Garibaldi condition.

Don't ask me why, as I point out on my previous post, getting LHD or even 2nd hand Light Carrier is "insane" and wasting resources at this stage of TNI-AL fleet development stage. However I also heard that the intention for UAV Carrier is one of big reasons for the MinDef and TNI-AL brass to look into this possibility. This part of reason why TNI-AL also order Akinci and Anka UAV from Turkey.

Off course they also talk need to have Fleet Command ship, and for Humanitarian need. So don't ask me reasonability on that, as in my opinion they can talk or put all the reasoning, but for me it is not much difference then Brazil reasoning on getting carrier. It is image building on all the reasoning base on. Having Carriers or LHD as Flag ship seems the main thinking from Indonesian brass, as much as thinking in Thailand or Brazil.

Still if that 'urges' already set, then better having 2nd hand refurbished Light Carrier then building LHD. It is USD 300 mio agains USD 900 mio difference, which is represent at least one Full.Size Frigate.

I am just amazed at the decision making process, and would love to be a fly on the wall when the planners discuss what they would buy. For most sane people, I would have thought it's a super simple math - more gen purpose OPV/frigate hulls with ordnance to match and decent ops budget vs a throphy platform with limited utility, but what do I know .....

I know that Indonesian defence procurement is convoluted and full of political baggage, but still .... this one seems like a colossal bad idea.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

La portaerei Garibaldi in pensione dopo 41 anni: a Taranto anche una petizione online per tenerla in città come museo galleggiante

Una disfida a distanza con Genova per il futuro della storica unità della Marina militare

bari.repubblica.it

Still if that 'urges' already set, then better having 2nd hand refurbished Light Carrier then building LHD. It is USD 300 mio agains USD 900 mio difference, which is represent at least one Full.Size Frigate.

In my opinion it is the opposite, better a new local made LHD, than an old second hand carrier from abroad.

1. I don't know where you get that $300 million from, but imagine the refurbishment/modernization costs of an almost 40 years old aircraft carrier, and after that the operational costs.
2. The contract from UAE for the 163 m LPD from PAL has a price tag of $408 million, an 'LHD-nized version' of this LPD should be less than $900 million. The operational costs of such a new and smaller vessel will be much lower. Besides that the training and maintenance costs will be lower.
3. It is political more acceptable to order from an own shipyard, instead to source it from abroad. It is also better for the development of the Indonesian defence industry and the local economy.

But yes, it is still an unnecessary waste of our limited defence budget.

 

[Ananda]

The USD 300 Mio is the rumours package cost that Fincantieri offering. From what I heard the package basically the cost to refurbished and rebuild the carrier. If we look Brazil cost to acquire HMS Ocean for GBP 85 Mio or less then USD 120 Mio, thus the Fincantieri offer could be the package of refurbishment is quite extensive.

Yes building LHD in your own yard can be beneficial to local industry capabilities. However USD 900mio for LHD actually already in low range ball park. The cost of LHD can add up easily toward more then USD 1.0 Bio. LHD is cost more then double and can be close to tripe of average high end LPD. Turkiye Anadolu expected cost just USD 600 Mio in early projection, but in the end according to Turkish media costing more then double of that early projection. I put Turkiye as example, cause it will cost Indonesia around that, as like Turkiye has to build infrastructure to support LHD.

This again if the condition the decision makers are already set on having light flat top, then fully refurbished 2nd hand flat top can still be better early 'experiment' learning cost. Off course the best course at this TNI-AL stage, is just drop this flat top urges.

 

[Ananda]

PT PAL sebut pemerintahan baru miliki target bangun kapal induk

Direktur Utama PT PAL Indonesia Kaharuddin Djenod mengungkapkan bahwa pemerintahan baru memiliki target membangun kapal induk untuk memperkuat pertahanan ...

m.antaranews.com

PAL CEO still talking about building 'carrier' type vessels in public. While at same time also shown the company focus are FMP and Scorpene projects. Scorpone plan to begin first cutting on 2025, while FMP progress he claim already build 110 blocks from 161 total and already construct 58 of them in the yards as joint modules.

 

[swerve]

The USD 300 Mio is the rumours package cost that Fincantieri offering. From what I heard the package basically the cost to refurbished and rebuild the carrier. If we look Brazil cost to acquire HMS Ocean for GBP 85 Mio or less then USD 120 Mio, thus the Fincantieri offer could be the package of refurbishment is quite extensive.

Ocean was built more cheaply & simply than Garibaldi. She's bigger, with space for 800+ troops, & carries landing craft, but unless you want to carry lots of people & equipment & land them somewhere she may be less capable.

A refit of Garibaldi probably includes some new weapons & sensors, e.g. Albatros NG (CAMM-ER) SAM to replace the Sea Sparrow. Ocean had a new radar & I think some associated kit a few years before being sold.