Indonesia: 'green water navy'

[Sandhi Yudha]

Video: Brazilian Navy’s 1st Scorpene Submarine ‘Riachuelo’ Performs Static Dive Test - Naval News

Brazil's first Scorpene-class submarine, Riachuelo, successfully completed its static dive test on 20 November, a decisive procedure used to assess parts of its seaworthiness.

www.navalnews.com

View attachment 51845

There're few differences from various sources on S-BR length. As this two sources can shown, where Naval News stated 72 and HI Sutton put around 75. I suspect the difference whether the length calculate from front to rudder or front to screws.

Either way the Evo Full Li-Ion version that's going to be build for Indonesia shares much similarities with S-BR version. I suspect they are lengthening both Brazilian and Indonesian version compare to Indian, Chile and Malaysian ones due the changes on Li-Ion cells to compensate no AIP.

Thank you for sharing.

"The Scorpène design is adapted to fit each navy’s specific requirements. Thus, the Brazilian Scorpène will be slightly longer to carry a larger crew, almost double the patrol range, and be able to cover greater distances. "

From which i understand none of the export versions has an AIP-module/MESMA-system installed. So probably the Brazilian version can carry more fuel.
But the range and endurance of the Scorpène Evolved version seems to be even more than the MESMA-version, so it is worth it.
Naval Group Awarded Contract To Produce Scorpene Evolved Class Submarines For Indonesian Navy – Global Defense Corp

 

[Ananda]

So probably the Brazilian version can carry more fuel.
But the range and endurance of the Scorpène Evolved version seems to be even more than the MESMA-version, so it is worth it.

Yes, I believe both Brazilian and Indonesian being design with range and endurance as priorities. Both have similar needs and operate on Tropical waters. This design also being offer by NG to India, if they are interested for 2nd batch of Scorpene.

The Full Li-Ion design they are shown in Video also shown X type rudder configuration. Indicating it is aim not only for Longer range and duration in deeper waters, but also abilities to still work on litoral waters. This is off course improvements then type 209-1400 that Indonesia operate now, which is optimized for brown-green water environment.

Which is why this two scorpene evo being classified as Strategic Submarine then Tactical Submarine that 209-1400 belong too.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

A Malaysian vessel i caught stealing Indonesian sand in the waters near Pulau Batam, with around 10.000 cubic meters of sand on board. And it seems they are doing this 10 times a month. And this is just one ship, imagine the unrepairable damage to Indonesian seas, because i can not believe this is the only ship doing this.

And now a certain minister, wants to allow the export of Indonesian sea sand.

Edit: two vessels are caught: Yang Chen 6 and Yo Shun 9.

 

[Ananda]

now a certain minister, wants to allow the export of Indonesian sea sand.

The export actually going to be for sendiment sea sand, those sands that culminating due to erosion from land being transport by river current to the sea. That's why sendiment sans mostly deposited in river deltas or coastal area.

A Closer Look at Differences Between Sea Sediment and Sea Sand

Read on to find out the key differences between sea sediment and sea sand.

www.google.com

While Sea Sand mostly on ocean floor or on litoral sea floor. It is in my understanding more influence by ocean and sea own progression rather then interference from land sendiment.

However the problem for Indonesia is how to control it. Once the sendiment sea sand export reopen, then how to control it in field? How to differentiate the shipment between sendiment sea sand and sea floor sand ? Before when it is open, they mix both of them as sendiment sand has to pay custom tax while sea floor sand is acquired illegally without tax.

Indonesian maritime borders have porous control due lack of personal and Patrol boats, plus we also know how the control also porous in implementation (trying to be more diplomatic to say it). For that before the decision just banned both sea sand sources. It is also not guarantee to keep the porous implementation altogether, but at least more controllable relatively.

Yes, there are going to be lost opportunities on getting tax fee from the business, but seems some believe it is better to keep the lid close, due to nature of maritime border control in Indonesia that can be "permesive manipulative" in implementation.

 

[Ananda]

Video on the meeting between PAL board with French delegation headed by French Ambasador. The meeting talk more on PAL preparation for Scorpone Evo fabrication process. It is also noted that PAL stated the contract altough already signed but not yet effective. Means the finance guys still finalising the credit term with the FI that back the deals.

Still usually when the fabrication process already underway, then it is just waiting time for contract effective. In other word the parties including Frenchie already have enough strong confidence, that payment facilitation should be finalise soon. The meeting once again emphasis that the whole fabrication process will be done in PAL Surabaya facilities.

This shown that NG continue the trend with PAL as they did with fabrication of Brazil and India version. Complete fabrication on client domestic facilities.

Add:


Bit Warsaw Pact vibes from the latest TNI-AL exercise. Many people mock Parchim and the decision in 90's to procured them. However they serve the purpose well as back bone of TNI-AL patroling forces. It is not their fault their 2 Decades operational tour as envisage in 90's during procurement stretching almost 4 Decades. Still it shows the design still workable as patrol forces throughout this time.

So far no plan from what I heard to continue deploy those RBU-6000 after Parchim later on retiring by end of this decade. If the plan of replacement still in line on schedule.

 

[x100 XKR]

What is the latest on the induction of the 2 PPA class vessels into the service? It is almost mid October - and are they not supposed to be handed off this month? Any news about the latest configurations?

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

From which i understand the two ships under the €1,18 billion contract are the 5th and 6th PPA vessels. And these two are in the Light+ configuration.
But until now there are no recent information updates about the delivery of the first ship, as far as i know.

 

[Ananda]

It is almost mid October - and are they not supposed to be handed off this month? Any news about the latest configurations?

TNI AL datangkan kapal PPA dari Italia dan Fregat buatan Turki

Jajaran TNI AL akan memperkuat kekuatan militer dengan mendatangkan kapal perang untuk berpatroli atau yang biasa disebut Pattugliatore Polivalente ...

www.antaranews.com

TNI-AL Chief told media the schedule now is end of year for first PPA. Just like Scorpene, PPA now waits for effectiveness of credit line payment. Rumours from what I gather, finance guys now try to keep the credit line finalization before 20th this month, the date of Presidential hand over.

However since some finance guys I talk believe Prabowo's administration will be continuation on Jokowi's administration, they're also believe even some finalization come after 20th this month, will not matter much as long as within this year. Anyway this is why the talk on Sri Mulyani will become finance chief again. Prabowo's already talk in media, that significant number of his cabinet will come from Jokowi's present cabinet.

As for final configuration, just as @Sandhi Yudha say the two PPA for Indonesia already being configured as Light + configuration. So as Indonesia want them to be ready ASAP, I don't see they will change configuration. However whether they are then will be later on being configured as Full config, I believe will done by Fincantieri on their partner shipyard in Indonesia.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

The new PC-60M patrolboat KRI Hampala 880 just got the new OTO Melara 40 mm gun installed.
So the primary armament of the PC-60M Dorang-class is the 40-mm OTO Melara main gun equipped with an advanced fire control system that integrates a laser rangefinder, an infrared camera, and a day camera.

Additionally, the boats are fitted with two 12.7-mm heavy machine guns.

x.com


A little bit of topic, but i just found this on Twitter, that the new minister of foreign affairs visited the BRICS-meeting yesterday. I expect he just came as an observer because he got an invitation.

x.com

x.com

 

[Ananda]

This been circulate since yesterday. Basically Bakamla/Indonesia Coast Guard largest cutter KN Tanjung Datu manage to shadow and push back Chinese Coast Guard cutter that's previously shadowing Pertamina vessel that doing seismic research for their gas exploration.

Nothing new, Indonesia claim this is their water, and Chinese claim other wise. This is in North Natuna Sea area that cross cutting with Chinese Nine Dash Line. I put this to shown how Indonesia need to beef up their Coast Guard fleet. Chinese Coast Guard need to be faced by Indonesian Coast Guard cutter and not TNI-AL Patrol Ship.

There's one Parchim class that supporting Bakamla, but it's stay in background. So this is what should be done when playing shadowing and counter shadowing in SCS. Hope Prabowo's administration now put more appropriate budget toward Bakamla. Enough with this 30m, 40m and 60m patrol boats for TNI-AL. Those patrol boats should be given to Bakamla.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

This been circulate since yesterday. Basically Bakamla/Indonesia Coast Guard largest cutter KN Tanjung Datu manage to shadow and push back Chinese Coast Guard cutter that's previously shadowing Pertamina vessel that doing seismic research for their gas exploration.

Nothing new, Indonesia claim this is their water, and Chinese claim other wise. This is in North Natuna Sea area that cross cutting with Chinese Nine Dash Line. I put this to shown how Indonesia need to beef up their Coast Guard fleet. Chinese Coast Guard need to be faced by Indonesian Coast Guard cutter and not TNI-AL Patrol Ship.

There's one Parchim class that supporting Bakamla, but it's stay in background. So this is what should be done when playing shadowing and counter shadowing in SCS. Hope Prabowo's administration now put more appropriate budget toward Bakamla. Enough with this 30m, 40m and 60m patrol boats for TNI-AL. Those patrol boats should be given to Bakamla.

Agree. There are enough Indonesian shipyards which are able to construct 100 m+ or even 120 m+ patrolboats. These ships should be capable enough to patrol for weeks on open seas, and it would be nice if they also have a helideck.

 

[Ananda]

This is the type of Japanese CG Cutter that become base on the Bakamla cutter that's going to be 'gift' using Japan grant. It is only slightly larger then Pulau Nipah class, and smaller then Tanjung Datu. Put it as reminder how during Jokowi's era, this is the only Bakamla cutter that being approved to acquire.

This's because it's Japanese grant. Thus means basically Bakamla doesn't get new cutter from Government budget. Something that need to change on mind set, despite Bakamla has already got legislative support.

Problem all the same for decades, maritime jurisdiction power is being contested by several agencies including Navy and Police. As long as this is not being properly sort out, it will always be problem. Maritime jurisdiction is just a juicy fat slice of pies.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

View attachment 51946

This is the type of Japanese CG Cutter that become base on the Bakamla cutter that's going to be 'gift' using Japan grant. It is only slightly larger then Pulau Nipah class, and smaller then Tanjung Datu. Put it as reminder how during Jokowi's era, this is the only Bakamla cutter that being approved to acquire.

This's because it's Japanese grant. Thus means basically Bakamla doesn't get new cutter from Government budget. Something that need to change on mind set, despite Bakamla has already got legislative support.

Problem all the same for decades, maritime jurisdiction power is being contested by several agencies including Navy and Police. As long as this is not being properly sort out, it will always be problem. Maritime jurisdiction is just a juicy fat slice of pies.

How sure is it that the donation of one Hida-class vessel will become reality? After the meeting and negotiations last year, it became quite silent about the donation.

https://www.mofa.go.jp/ic/cap1/pageite_000001_00056.html

https://www.rfa.org/english/news/southchinasea/japan-asean-02152024013442.html

 

[Ananda]

Bakamla RI Dapat Hibah Kapal Patroli Baru dari Jepang

Kapal patroli yang dihibahkan berkapasitas 70 orang dengan panjang 85,6 meter dan kecepatan 22 knot. Proses pembangunan kapal dilakukan di Jepang.

nasional.kompas.com

Well in last July, Bakamla already have meeting with JICA. Basically they are preparing the grant transition from production of the ship in Japan and hand over after the production complete. As Bakamla is not military institution, but more security institutions like Police, the grant handle by JICA.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Bakamla RI Dapat Hibah Kapal Patroli Baru dari Jepang

Kapal patroli yang dihibahkan berkapasitas 70 orang dengan panjang 85,6 meter dan kecepatan 22 knot. Proses pembangunan kapal dilakukan di Jepang.

nasional.kompas.com

Well in last July, Bakamla already have meeting with JICA. Basically they are preparing the grant transition from production of the ship in Japan and hand over after the production complete. As Bakamla is not military institution, but more security institutions like Police, the grant handle by JICA.

Thank you for sharing. I didn't know that we got a new vessel, i thought we got a used ship. The to be donated ship will be 10 meter less in length and much slower than the Hida-Class, maybe we can regard this as a new and different class.

 

[Ananda]

It should be base either from Kunigami (above) or Iwami (below) class. Those two that are still in production line. Japan will not going to build entirely new class for only one or few orders. I suspect on Kunigami base cutter.

Kunigami base also use by Japan on their grant vessels to Philippines Coast Guard. Hida class base still possible, and eventough in the meeting they talk on 85m vessels, but either Hida, Kunigami and Iwami are all above 90m. So I still suspect it is base on those designs, as seems it is designs that still being work out by Japanese yards.

Add:

Ada Apa dengan Bakamla dan KPLP? Halaman all - Kompas.com

Ada dua kubu di tengah masyarakat menyikapi isu pendirian coast guard Indonesia: kubu pro peleburan instansi-instansi ke dalam Bakamla dan kubu kontra Halaman all

nasional.kompas.com

This article in Kompas shown why to make single maritime constabulary entity is very political wrangling. Bakamla got head wind but the other agencies lobby to avoid the move to have Bakamla lead Coast Guard.

Prabowo's administration has to sort this out, as getting healthy maritime environment has to also depends robust and efficient maritime constabulary bureaucracy.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

View attachment 51952View attachment 51953

It should be base either from Kunigami (above) or Iwami (below) class. Those two that are still in production line. Japan will not going to build entirely new class for only one or few orders. I suspect on Kunigami base cutter.

Kunigami base also use by Japan on their grant vessels to Philippines Coast Guard. Hida class base still possible, and eventough in the meeting they talk on 85m vessels, but either Hida, Kunigami and Iwami are all above 90m. So I still suspect it is base on those designs, as seems it is designs that still being work out by Japanese yards.

Add:

Ada Apa dengan Bakamla dan KPLP? Halaman all - Kompas.com

Ada dua kubu di tengah masyarakat menyikapi isu pendirian coast guard Indonesia: kubu pro peleburan instansi-instansi ke dalam Bakamla dan kubu kontra Halaman all

nasional.kompas.com

This article in Kompas shown why to make single maritime constabulary entity is very political wrangling. Bakamla got head wind but the other agencies lobby to avoid the move to have Bakamla lead Coast Guard.

Prabowo's administration has to sort this out, as getting healthy maritime environment has to also depends robust and efficient maritime constabulary bureaucracy.

Let's hope his administration is able to accomplish this, there are a lot of Jokowi-puppets in his kabinet, and also it is against Luhut's interests/wishes, that Indonesia will get a strong and efficient coastguard.

 

[Ananda]

Frenchie Salesman put in his channel that Fincantieri give USD 390 mio as package to take over Garibaldi. The package includes total refurbishment of Garibaldi on physical side and also changes with more updated systems.

There's rumours that LHD plan being delayed as the costs can reach USD 1bio mark. However there's talk on taking Garibaldi to provide assets as UAV Carrier concept at least for a decade until brand new LHD/Light Carrier can be afforded.

 

[koxinga]

Frenchie Salesman put in his channel that Fincantieri give USD 390 mio as package to take over Garibaldi. The package includes total refurbishment of Garibaldi on physical side and also changes with more updated systems.

There's rumours that LHD plan being delayed as the costs can reach USD 1bio mark. However there's talk on taking Garibaldi to provide assets as UAV Carrier concept at least for a decade until brand new LHD/Light Carrier can be afforded.

Here is a description of the refit between 2013 - 2015. USD 390 mio seems high, even if new combat systems, radars, electronics and arms are added as part of the scope, plus account for ageing and inflation.

The work began on October 14, 2013, and was scheduled to last until March 15, 2015, with a total planned expenditure of 11 million euro. The work will instead be fully completed on November 10, with the conclusion of the trials. This is more than four months ahead of schedule, and at an effective cost perfectly in line with the allocated financial resources.

The most relevant work involving propulsion (the gas turbines, which had reached the end of their service life, were replaced); the electric generation system (overhaul of the diesel generators and the distribution system power grid); the flight deck (resurfaced with a high-performance process whose application requires specific technical skills and advanced equipment) and all the flight operations support systems; the air conditioning system (for both summer and winter); the lifts and aircraft handling equipment, as well as hull accessories, and the combat system’s sensors and weapons.

The refit also included the modernization of equipment and systems for an ever-greater respect and care for the environment and nature. Two actions deserve a special mention:

-- replacement of treatment facilities of oily bilge water, to conform to the latest national and international standards for the protection of the environment;
-- painting the hull with a cycle of high-technology paints, capable of ensuring a longer life (10 years instead of the normal 3-5 years), of reducing fuel consumption by 8-13% and, as a result, reducing the emission of pollutants.

The volume of work was high: a total of 5200 m2 of hull and 4400 m2 of the flight deck were resurfaced and painted; 30120 kg of steel plate was replaced, 29348 m3 of bilge and other used waters were treated, and 4880 m of pipes were replaced.

Italian Carrier Garibaldi Completes Refit

In Taranto on October 15, the ship Giuseppe Garibaldi passed through the swing bridge to the “Great Sea” after a maintenance and modernization period ...

www.defense-aerospace.com

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

They really did a lot for just €11.000.000.
Is the package of €390 million including a complete and extensive overhaul that may involve significant structural and extensive repairs because of the age of the ship? Maybe it includes replacement of the lift system, training and spareparts for the next 30 years.

€390 million is quite a lot if the Indonesia wants to use the aircraft carrier as "an interim solution".