Indonesia: 'green water navy'

Ananda

Ananda

The Bunker Group
www.janes.com

PT Len, Thales partner to advance Indonesia's C5ISR capabilities

Bandung-based state-owned defence electronics firm PT Len Industri has signed an agreement with Thales to strengthen collaboration in defence technology developments to...
www.janes.com www.janes.com

www.thalesgroup.com

New Partnership between PT Len Industri and Thales Set to Revolutionise Indonesia’s Defence Sector

PT Len Industri and Thales have signed a strategic partnership agreement for further collaboration.
www.thalesgroup.com www.thalesgroup.com

This more clear information on the scope of work that LEN and Thales will work on (as being put in previous annoucement). Seems LEN after talking with several potential partners like Leonardo or even Aselsan, then decide to go back to their long term partner Thales afterall.
 
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Sandhi Yudha

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
KRI Golok 688 is now unser routine maintenance at PAL.
No signs of modernisation or retrofitting of new weaponsystems.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517678498772488192


A little bit fanboyish title. "Frightening specifications!"
So in short, the president has launched the 6th KCR-60 'Fast' Missile Boat, and that thing has frightening specifications....
finance.detik.com

Jokowi Resmikan Kapal Cepat Rudal Buatan Surabaya, Spesifikasinya Ngeri!

Presiden Joko Widodo (Jokowi) meluncurkan Kapal Cepat Rudal (KCR) 60m ke-6 di area Fasilitas Kapal Selam PT PAL Indonesia.
finance.detik.com finance.detik.com


Here an overview of some recent agreements, contracts and activities.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517131071187750912

2. An agreement for the delivery of 13 CGI Radars between the Ministry of Defence and LEN.

3. A contract for the production of small calibre ammunition with Pindad.

4. A contract with IPTN for the modernisation of 12 C-130.

5. An agreement with PAL to modernize 41 warships with a value of $1.100.000.000.

6. The signing of a Head of Agreements between LEN and Thales to form a joint venture for the development of a Global Supply Chain and Industri Radar Nasional.

7. The signing of a Global Strategic Partnership between FNSS and Pindad for the joint production of the ZAHA Armoured Amphibious Assault Vehicles.

8. The launch of the 6th KCR-60 patrolboat.

9. The inauguration of and Elemented Detonator factory from PT. Dahana.



And as a bonus a video about the new Bell 505 training helicopters delivered a few months ago.
 
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Ananda

Ananda

The Bunker Group
www.cnbcindonesia.com

Naval Group dan Tawaran Kemitraan Industri Kapal Selam RI

Naval Group merupakan salah satu pelaku industri galangan kapal terkemuka Eropa.
www.cnbcindonesia.com www.cnbcindonesia.com

The twitter guy as French salesman wrote in CNBC Indonesia the NG offering for Scorpene joint production scheme:

  1. The budget will be USD 2.7 bio,
  2. There will be 30% workshare value for local partner,
  3. Total manufacturing done locally in PAL facility (in sense just like Brazil deal),
  4. This is going to be co-production where NG personal will also involve supervise manufacturing process in Surabaya PAL's facility,
  5. Agreement to include Indonesian partner on NG lithium ion battery development program.
There's some question on this USD 2.7 bio already include the adjustment on PAL facilities (which before build around DSME 1400), and whether only for 2 Subs. Some rumours talk on NG want to give 3 subs with 2 total build in Surabaya, while 1 in French to fasten Submarine schedulle delivery.

Let's see how this develop.
 
Ananda

Ananda

The Bunker Group

Komando Armada RI III

koarmada3.tnial.mil.id koarmada3.tnial.mil.id

Seems another 3 PC-40 (Non Missile version of KCR-40), KRI Madidihang, KRI Tahitu and KRI Layaran already done installment of Leonardo Merlin 30mm. Hopefully this's going to be definite standard 30mm in TNI-AL or at least one of two standard 30mm.

Ideal standardisation on one type of 30mm will be hard to maintain. Look at Bakamla (Coast Guard) that now goes with Turkish 30mm.

Meanwhile in Indonesia there are still no signs of progress in the program to construct the Iver Huitfeldts/Type 31/Arrowhead 140 in Surabaya.
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Considering even for RN and Babcock standard, they are doing first keel after two years of Type 31 announcement, then if PAL Arrowhead 140 can have first keel before end of this year, is already achievement for PAL.

Let's see if the rumours of PAL want to have few meters longer from standard Arrowhead 140, is the main reason on why the delay happen so far.
 
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Sandhi Yudha

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Ananda said:
Yes, I don't understand the concept of OPV that Indonesian Navy try to put. The same KCR-60 design also being used as PC-60 or OPV-60. Clearly the design is not for OPV.

View attachment 49254

PAL can provide more proper OPV design as they're already shown in Philippines some years ago. However looking on what latest OPV designs come from Indonesian yards, it's seems the clients (TNI-AL) didn't know what they really want on OPV. The OPV's basically all build for Missile boats (OPV 60) or Corvettes (OPV 90) in mind.

Some times when I also look on RAN thread debate on OPV, I just smack my face. OPV is not Missile Boats or Corvettes. Either you want OPV or you want Corvettes. No something that can work as both. At least this HHI design that Philippines Navy choose is a proper OPV design.
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It is possible that the navy want to have patrolboats capable to operate at full sea/long range patrols, replace the Kapitan Pattimura/Parchim I corvettes and the Mandau Class missile boats, but also try to be as cost effective as possible. And probably this results in some kind of all-in-one design to be used for multiple classes.


A recent video of KRI Pulau Rengat 711.
Here it takes care of three old sea mines from the Second World War. Even after so many years the Tripartite/Alkmaarklasse proves it's usefulness.
Also in the future we still need decent and modern minehunters. For some reason there are no updates anymore for a long time about the construction of the two 62 meter long MCMVs ordered from Abeking&Rasmussen.
 
Ananda

Ananda

The Bunker Group
Ananda said:
Now, this administrations need to back it up with not only more budget for coast guard, but also switching other agencies maritime budgets to Bakamla. This will provide clear signal for everyone including the commercials players who has authorities on internal maritime securities. This is related toward down sizing maritime securities bureacracy.
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Personally I always think OPV more appropriate for Constabulary duties. With Bakamla already officials to handle maritime constabulary duties (at least in paper), then OPV should be part of Bakamla/Coast Guard inventories and not Navy. Just as I've posted few years back.

Sandhi Yudha said:
probably this results in some kind of all-in-one design to be used for multiple classes.
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This is abysmal approach due to Navy try to keep their maritime constabulary turf. After all it is still very lucrative piece of pie.

If there's a good thing coming from this TNI-AL OPV, is the design (whether OPV 60 or OPV 90) basically has more on Missile boats and Corvettes charateristics. I do suspect they call it OPV because TNI-AL wants to keep their maritime constabulary turf.

This kind of catch-22 for Bakamla in my opinion. They can not conduct proper maritime constabularies in Indonesian waters because lack of resources. Their lack of resources due to their budget allocations being 'nip' by other maritime agencies (including Navy), because this administration still has not resolve main problem in the field. Who has jurisdiction for maritime constabularies (basically who's to handle the pie).

Sandhi Yudha said:
For some reason there are no updates anymore for a long time about the construction of the two 62 meter long MCMVs ordered from Abeking&Rasmussen
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The delivery schedulle still in mid next year. Lets wait on that. Now the last talk with Abeking&Rasmussen in for them helping local shipyard build Ocean Going Hydography vessels.

Indonesia holds offset talks with Abeking & Rasmussen for new hydrographic ship

Indonesia's Ministry of Defense (MoD) held a virtual meeting with German shipbuilder Abeking & Rasmussen to discuss the possible procurement of an ocean-going...
www.janes.com

This is part of off set deals from MCMV from my understanding. This vessels being rumours can double as Submarine Rescue vessels.
 
Sandhi Yudha

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Sandhi Yudha said:
|"Setelah diresmikan, dua kapal ini akan dikirim ke Sorong untuk memperkuat Koarmada 1 dan 3."|

I think Detiknews made a mistake, one PC-60 will be send to Ambon, the other to Sorong, both bases are part of Koarmada 3.

From which i understand the PC-60 'fast' patrol boats are not downgraded KCR-60s, but enlarged PC-40s, these boats are also built by the same shipyards.

www.navalnews.com

Indonesian shipyard launches two PC-60M patrol boats - Naval News

The Indonesian Navy launched and christened two PC-60 M-class fast patrol boats at the PT Caputra hipyard's facilities in Banten on March 21.
www.navalnews.com www.navalnews.com
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The video of the launch on 17-03-2022.
We can also see the KRI Kurau 856 on the shipyard, which is a PC-40 patrol boat, it is probably there for maintenance.
 
Sandhi Yudha

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
The Indonesian Navy (TNI-AL) will send its frigate, KRI I Gusti Ngurah Rai (332), along with 35 marines to take part in the upcoming Rim of the Pacific (RIMPAC) 2022 exercise in Hawaii.

The exercise will be conducted in and around the Hawaiian Islands and Southern California region from 29 June to 4 August.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533790161632653312



|"Komisi I DPR RI sebelumnya telah menyetujui usulan penambahan anggaran untuk TNI sebesar Rp32 triliun pada 2023."|

So the Chief of Staff of the navy explains here that the additional budget of Rp32.000.000.000.000 will be mostly spent on maintenance of the equipment, but it will be also used on modernisation and new procurements.

Source:
KSAL Sebut Tambahan Anggaran 2023 untuk Modernisasi Alutsista.


And last month 179 kg of cocaine was found by the navy in Selat Sunda, the strait between Sumatra and Jawa.
www.cnnindonesia.com

VIDEO: TNI AL Sita 179 Kg Kokain di Perairan Selat Sunda

TNI angkatan laut menyita narkoba jenis kokain, yang ditemukan di perairan selat Sunda.
www.cnnindonesia.com www.cnnindonesia.com
 
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Ananda

Ananda

The Bunker Group
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1944269842410159&id=638220153015141

PT. PAL, received Babcock CEO as part of preparation on building 2 Arrowhead 140 version in PAL. As the contact agreement, PAL will conduct fabrication of the Frigate, while Babcock provide design and technical supervision.

Babcock CEO also touring PAL facilities that's going to be used for fabrication. I'm predict that they will used Babcock technical system. Thus perhaps they will build the Frigate on enclosed facility, which then being assemble on the dry dock yard. This's considering also what's facilities available in PAL.
 
A

Arji

Active Member
Ananda said:
PT. PAL, received Babcock CEO as part of preparation on building 2 Arrowhead 140 version in PAL. As the contact agreement, PAL will conduct fabrication of the Frigate, while Babcock provide design and technical supervision.

Babcock CEO also touring PAL facilities that's going to be used for fabrication. I'm predict that they will used Babcock technical system. Thus perhaps they will build the Frigate on enclosed facility, which then being assemble on the dry dock yard. This's considering also what's facilities available in PAL.
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I thought Babcock just sold them the licensed, and that the design after that had nothing to do with them anymore. Does this mean they no longer want to make changes to the original design?
 
Ananda

Ananda

The Bunker Group
Arji said:
thought Babcock just sold them the licensed, and that the design after that had nothing to do with them anymore.
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When you sold your license, then you also sold your design. I believe this's will be like PAL co-op with Daesun, when they build Makasar class LPD.

Daesun provide the design and technical supervision during the first two that being build build by PAL. After that Daesun will let PAL build on their own, including modifications on the design.

Remember the initial discussion is with Odense. However since Odense now seems already working with Babcock, then they're looking for the design already modified by Babcock.

Whether it is going to be similar with Babcock
Type 31 or further modifications as rumours put, will have to wait on final design role out. However just like with Daesun in LPD, Babcock will be involved much at least on the first batch.
 
Sandhi Yudha

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
koxinga said:
I have difficulty understanding this. If you need a VVIP yatch, get a proper yatch. There are plenty of good used ones at Rp300 bil. If you want to build a yatch, build a proper one, not a KCR-60M Luxury Edition Istimewa.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536286217108529152
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Using a warship design has several advantages above a normal yacht design.
- Easier and cheaper to install defensive equipment, armaments, ECM and communication systems.
- Made in Indonesia --> lower costs + supports Indonesian economy and defence industry.
- It doesn't looks lux, comfortable, expensive and decadent, which makes it more acceptable for politicians, press and the people.

Not much information is given during the ceremony.
But it is just remarkable to call an almost unarmed 60 meter patrolboat with a helicopterdeck, a "helicopter korvet".
www.idnnews.id

Karimun Anugerah Sejati Dipercaya Bangun Kapal KRH VVIP dan Kepresidenan - IDNNews

IDNNews.id, Batam – PT Karimun Anugerah Sejati (KAS) mendapat kepercayaan dari pemerintah, khususnya Angkatan Laut (AL) untuk membuat Kapal Korvet Rudal Heli (KRH) VVIP dan Kepresidenan. Kapal yang diberi nama KRI Bung Karno ini, didesain khusus untuk menggantikan kapal kepresidenan sebelumnya...
www.idnnews.id www.idnnews.id
batamclick.com

PT Karimun Anugrah Sejati Dipercaya Buat Kapal Korvet Rudal Heli VVIP dan Kepresidenan - BatamClick.com

PT Karimun Anugrah Sejati Dipercaya Buat Kapal Korvet Rudal Heli VVIP dan Kepresidenan - BatamClick.com
batamclick.com batamclick.com

Here a very amateuristic video of the ceremony .
 
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R

r0m8470

Member
So ... which of the actual procurement programs that are still alive and executed now? When I read the news, there are multiple ones in flight, but whether actual contract is actually executed or not, no one seems to have any clear idea.

1. FREMM and the 2 Maestrale. Is this program still alive? Are any FREMM in the process of being ordered and built, or is this just meaningless MoU with zero teeth?
2. Babcock and Iver. I guess these 2 are the same programs. The Babcock is a derivative of Iver? Real contract or just fluff?
3. Same question about the 2 Scorpene.
4. Damen Sigma. Are there more Sigma to be built?

The local news outlet always put up something bombastic, but there is really no teeth whatsoever. I mean look at the Rafale, 42 units envisioned but contract is only for 6.

Defence procurement is always a 'lucrative' undertaking in Indonesia, with a lot of people wanting pieces of the pie. With the way things are going, it is really impossible to conduct arms procurement the 'right way'. There's too much money involved for anyone to suppress their greed.
 
Sandhi Yudha

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
1. Not much happen, but you can read in post #2110 about a visit from a Fincantieri delegation to PAL.
2. The Babcock Arrowhead 140 is indeed a derivative from / a modified Iver Huitfeldt design. See posts #2112-2114 for the latest developments.
3. Latest news about the Scorpène Class acquisition program: Scorpene Submarine Meets Indonesia Navy Requirements - Naval News
4. No more SIGMA 10514 frigates will be built, cancelled by the current administration.
5. In post #2108 you can read about the two minehunters from Abeking&Rasmussen, the only foreign vessels under construction now for the Indonesian Navy.


Hopefully the other 36 Rafales will come later, and i also hope that the first 6 Rafales will come complete with advanced weaponry, not just only equipped with 30 mm grenades and dumb bombs, like our first batch of Sukhois.

The construction of 5 C-130J-30 transporters is ongoing and from the 9 NC212i aircrafts ordered for TNI-AU, two are already delivered.

PT. Dirgantara Indonesia (Persero)

www.indonesian-aerospace.com www.indonesian-aerospace.com
 
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Ananda

Ananda

The Bunker Group
I don't want to add much on how the progress on defense planning for this term, because now it is already reach the most important stage. How to finance the plan procurement.

It is been put in several times in Indonesian threads, that to reach the plan procurement, at least USD 21 bio financing needed. The question so far how to achieve that. The finance people hope this year recovery and slow down in Covid will provide reprive needed to finance several projects (including defense).

Turnout the war have put unexpected additional costs on the recovery (even being predicted Asia costs will not be as much as costs in EU). This still put questions on the some projects financing time table.

www.kompas.id

Kementerian Pertahanan Minta Anggaran Rp 319 Triliun untuk 2023

Kementerian Pertahanan mengajukan total anggaran pertahanan Rp 319 triliun untuk 2023 atau naik lebih dari dua kali lipat dari 2022. Meski kenaikan anggaran dibutuhkan, usulan yang diajukan dinilai terlalu besar.
www.kompas.id www.kompas.id

Indonesian MinDef ask for more than double on budget allocation for next year, as the increase actually part of financing time table on the procurement plan. This because many on the fixed allocation that already being agreed by MoF, going to be used for maintenance and bring back many of existing assets toward operational conditions.

Like I put before, the plan for high price items whether Rafale, F-15ID, FREMM, Arrowhead 140+, AEW, etc will be doubtfull can be executed altogether during this term. Something must to give. So there're rumours on FREMM being cut from 6 to 4, there are rumours on KFX licensing being cut instead to FA-50 licensing, there are rumours even to drop FREMM and instead to increase the numbers of Arrowhead 140+ due the projects being done altogether in PAL, there are rumours of Scorpene being dump to go back to DSME 1400 simply due to the costs (note: This rumours I heard frm finance people not the defense people).

All of this shown, there are still much recalculation, potential reprioritising within Bapenas and MoF with MinDef on all the projects financing. This is happen with all other ministries projects.
 
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